Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sole Source ?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • BC79er
    replied
    I only disagree with the assembly part to a point. Sole-source custom cab manufacturers start with flat pieces of metal and machine it into a cab. Most buy the chassis pre-built from elsewhere, but the cab and body structure as well as the wiring are all done in house. Not a reason to pick one over the other, but they do perform more than just bolting/welding things together.

    All finger-pointing and manufacturer's reluctance should be dealt with behind the scenes and not involve the customer.
    Truer words never spoken. But here on this imperfect Earth, it doesn't happen that way unfortunately. Repairs cost money, and without screwing over their customers on the purchase of the trucks the local dealers won't have tons of cash laying around to handle stuff first and bill the parent company later. I wish it was that way, it would be the right way to do business and treat the customer, so if you find such a dealer I wouldn't think of buying from anyone else regardless of badge.

    Leave a comment:


  • FyreFly
    replied
    I have read this thread with interest as I have listened to both sides of the sole-source issue for many years. In my opinion, sole-source meant something back in the days when the engines, pumps, axles, etc. were actually built by the fire truck manufacturer.

    Today, all manufacturers are nothing more than assemblers, they all use the same major components. This means that it all comes down to the ability and competence of your local dealer. He/she should be able to obtain the proper permission from whoever necessary to remedy legimate warranty issues in a timely manner. All finger-pointing and manufacturer's reluctance should be dealt with behind the scenes and not involve the customer.

    Regardless of sole-source or not, all major engines and transmissions can only be repaired by their own authorized service center, none will give permission to a dealer or even a manufacturer to remedy the problem. Unfortunately, these centers are not always in tune with the urgency of the fire service and it can sometimes be difficult to handle warranty issues as fast as the fire service requires.
    Last edited by FyreFly; 08-03-2006, 11:06 AM. Reason: spelling

    Leave a comment:


  • NewJerseyFFII
    replied
    Originally posted by npfd801
    Just to set the record straight here, my understanding is that Seagrave is purchasing their new "Towermax" products from RK, not the other way around.

    It is interesting just who is in bed with whom, isn't it?
    RK Aerials Inc. is selling to : " Seagrave , Hme , Marion , Rosenbauer , Alexces, Toyne , & other smaller builders ".

    Leave a comment:


  • ffp8106
    replied
    Originally posted by L3Truckee
    Sole source is about the concept of the vehicle and its intended use. Where a manufacturer utilizes an in house engineering department to develop a vehicle that utilizes its own chassis, body, and aerial device into one package. Not necessarily who will turn the wrenches or foot the bill.

    Making sure the vehicle is fully integrated from bumper to bumper is what sole source is all about. Today, there are more integrated systems on a fire apparatus than ever before. Especially on aerial apparatus. Buying a vehicle from any manufacturer that does not build their own chassis and integrates those systems into a complete fire apparatus is a gamble.

    Therefore, sole source needs to include engineering and design and development of the apparatus. Not just buying a cab and building on top of it.

    The odds being what they are... can you risk buying from a non sole source company?
    Pretty good sales hype......who do u sell for? Sounds like whats said in the pierce presentations.

    Leave a comment:


  • npfd801
    replied
    Originally posted by NewJerseyFFII
    Smeal buys chassis cabs from Spartan & Ferrara , Rosenbauer buys Spartans , Crimson fire is owned by Spartan chassis co. Etc !....Also Smeal at one time built aerial ladders for " Pierce " and now they build for " Ferrara " & RK Aerials go to " Seagrave for there midmount & rear mount towers.
    Just to set the record straight here, my understanding is that Seagrave is purchasing their new "Towermax" products from RK, not the other way around.

    It is interesting just who is in bed with whom, isn't it?

    Leave a comment:


  • BirkenVogt
    replied
    What you have described sounds like the move in medium duty trucks toward more "automotive" style construction.

    For instance some companies are now using their own rear axles. The only reason I can tell is so they can control replacement parts. Was there a problem with Spicer or Meritor rear ends? Is there a new feature?

    Mostly the sole source hype refers to electronic gadgets that cannot be made to work with a simple on/off switch, and are of dubious value. I like my on/off switches and wires going to devices to tell you the truth.

    Birken

    Leave a comment:


  • L3Truckee
    replied
    Missing the point...

    Sole source is about the concept of the vehicle and its intended use. Where a manufacturer utilizes an in house engineering department to develop a vehicle that utilizes its own chassis, body, and aerial device into one package. Not necessarily who will turn the wrenches or foot the bill.

    Making sure the vehicle is fully integrated from bumper to bumper is what sole source is all about. Today, there are more integrated systems on a fire apparatus than ever before. Especially on aerial apparatus. Buying a vehicle from any manufacturer that does not build their own chassis and integrates those systems into a complete fire apparatus is a gamble.

    Therefore, sole source needs to include engineering and design and development of the apparatus. Not just buying a cab and building on top of it.

    The odds being what they are... can you risk buying from a non sole source company?

    Leave a comment:


  • BirkenVogt
    replied
    One thing I ought to mention also is if you include a penalty clause in your contract for days out of service, the dealer will have an incentive to fix it faster and sort out the warranty claims later. If you can get that in there.

    Birken

    Leave a comment:


  • k1500chevy97
    replied
    the company that could have been considered the most "sole sourced" sold their fire apparatus division last year . daimler chrysler.

    Leave a comment:


  • FWDbuff
    replied
    Sole source? One name. Mack. (chassis only!)

    Leave a comment:


  • toddmcbr
    replied
    Originally posted by RFDACM
    The problem we've seen in our neck of the woods is the dealer will not do work until builder approval! I'd say the real losers are the owners of the trucks, most of the time, not the dealers or builders. Sole source may just eliminate a few steps or speed the process, they ceratinly can still deny repairs. The issue is time the apparatus is out of service followed by cost of repairs.
    The reason that E-ONE lost many major dealers this year was because of unpaid warranty claims by E-ONE. The customers would call the dealer staiting they had a warranty problem. Dealer says no problem and fixes it only to find out E-ONE won't pay it. Hence, it's going to be hard to find any dealer to just go ahead and fix things withour prior authorization from the factory.

    Sole Source is a buzz word that is being used as a sales gimmick. It ends up confusing us customers because we really don't don't know the true meaning. They would be better off advertising it as "One Call Warranty Center" or "One Call Service Center". IMHO opinion, that is what sole source comes down to - Who do I call when I have a warranty/service problem?

    As you previously state, In the end the customer looses as there truck has to be taken out of service. However fire trucks are fire trucks and they will eventually have problems. Make sure you find the dealer who you think will stand behind you when it comes to these issues. It will make things much easier.

    Leave a comment:


  • RFDACM
    replied
    Originally posted by ffp8106
    What happens if the "sole source" factory tells the dealer they wont warranty a part for whatever reason? the dealer still gets stuck just the same as if the factory is not a "sole source" co.
    The problem we've seen in our neck of the woods is the dealer will not do work until builder approval! I'd say the real losers are the owners of the trucks, most of the time, not the dealers or builders. Sole source may just eliminate a few steps or speed the process, they ceratinly can still deny repairs. The issue is time the apparatus is out of service followed by cost of repairs.

    Leave a comment:


  • ffp8106
    replied
    "Such a clause isn't necessary in sole-source because that's how manufacturer Z has their agreements with their suppliers of the components. They fix, bill supplier, department is out of it. With similar agreements in place, X could be a "sole-source" without actually building each piece themselves. Doesn't make a sole-source built truck any better or worse than another builder, it's just how the parts are assembled. And it also takes some of the grief away from X's dealer who is trying to do the right thing."

    What happens if the "sole source" factory tells the dealer they wont warranty a part for whatever reason? the dealer still gets stuck just the same as if the factory is not a "sole source" co.

    Leave a comment:


  • BirkenVogt
    replied
    For what it's worth, in California, state law states that the final stage builder is responsible for all warranty. So everything is "sole source" basically.

    However I usually find it more expeditious to handle engine and transmission warranties with their respective companies directly, and body/chassis warranties I just do myself and bill the builder. Our geographic location has the engine and transmission builders closer to us (rural/farm so the agriculture needs them) while the apparatus specific people are much farther away.

    Birken

    Leave a comment:


  • NewJerseyFFII
    replied
    Smeal buys chassis cabs from Spartan & Ferrara , Rosenbauer buys Spartans , Crimson fire is owned by Spartan chassis co. Etc !....Also Smeal at one time built aerial ladders for " Pierce " and now they build for " Ferrara " & RK Aerials go to " Seagrave for there midmount & rear mount towers.
    Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 07-15-2006, 09:07 AM.

    Leave a comment:

300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

Collapse

Upper 300x250

Collapse

Taboola

Collapse

Leader

Collapse
Working...
X