Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Philly's KME's

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Philly's KME's

    I understand that Philadelphia has returned (As in will not be accepted.)to KME a mid-mount tower that was deleivered in 2002 due to nuumerous mechanical problems. And that they have cancelled an order for a second one.

    Does anyone have any info as to what problems they had that made them take such a drastic action?

  • #2
    Who needs to know the specifics?? It's easy:

    Buy K-Mart Engineering and you get K-Mart quality, but at least you Keep your Mechanics Employed fixing your Krappy Mobile Equipment.

    When are these people gonna learn??

    Comment


    • #3
      I disagree with the comment about KME. We have 2 KME trucks and have never had any problems. They are by far better than any trucks bought around here. Two of our neighboring dept bought Pierce and E-One and have had nothing but problems. Every company will have a problem truck once in a while.
      AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo

      IAFF Local 3900

      IACOJ-The Crusty Glow Worm

      ENGINE 302 - The Fire Rats

      F.A.N.T.A.M FOOLS FTM-PTB

      Comment


      • #4
        A PLETHORA of problems.......

        As I understand it, it began with the newly delivered heavy rescue and the problems they had with it, and KME's hesitation to accept the problems as theirs.....Arguing back and forth between Detroit Diesel/Allison (the manufacturer of the engine and transmission) and KME....KME stated engine and tranny problems were DD/A's problem. DD/A claimed it was KME's fault as their products were installed incorrectly. Apparently DD/A finally proved that it was indeed KME's problem. That doesn't include all the other problems with the truck. Big surprise, huh?

        Then, the first tower was delivered and placed in service as Ladder Co. 22. Apparently at one of it's first working fires, where victims were hanging in windows, the electronic-over-hydraulic tower controls failed when the bucket brought the first group of saves to the ground. There it stayed until the job was brought under control, when a representative of Shop 2 was called to the scene to investigate. He was unable to determine the problem, so KME's rep was called. He stated to the Philadelphia Field Tech "Do this, this and this....It should work." The Philly Field Tech refused at the orders of someone higher up, stating that if "You break it, you buy it....And KME will say that YOU broke it, and you are not a KME Certified Tech. Rumor has it that this happened to some other Philly Techs when repairs were made to KME apparatus in Philly's shop. So The Philly Tech asked for a factory rep to come to Philly to repair the apparatus.....After arguing back and forth, KME finally sent a tech out. Then billed the city for approx. $2300. The city refused to pay, citing that the vehicle was still under warranty. KME's position was that the service rep told the tech what to do, releasing him from liability. Now it is a back-and-forth circus........Reminds me of the days back when Philly bought the E-One pumpers....Again, numerous problems from a garbage builder.....

        They never had the problems with the Seagrave Apparatus!

        FTM-PTB-EGH-RFB!
        "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

        Comment


        • #5
          FWDbuff well put. Anyone ever wonder why FDNY buy Seagrave. Could it have anything to do with the quality of the truck??It proves you get what you pay for if you go cheap you end up with nothing but problems. If You want quality you have to spend a little more it will pay of in the long run. At my department we have late 80's Kme pumper and we were having some trouble with so we called Kme and they told us that truck is more than ten years old and it is still in use . that blew us away Needless to sy we have learned from our mistakes and bought a Seagrave and have had no problems and we talking about buing another because of the quality and durability of Seagrave!!!!
          Last edited by nrz2334; 07-22-2003, 01:15 PM.
          nrz2334
          Just my view

          I would rather push my Seagrave than drive your Pierce!!

          TNT Rescue The Best!!!!!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Had a salesrep bring a brand new KME to a firehouse near me for guys to look at and see their spectacular quality. It had to be towed away on a low-boy trailer because of it's break down. Needless to say, not too many KME in my area. My company has 2 E-Ones, other company in town has 2 Pierces. I'll swear by all 4 of the trucks.

            If You want quality you have to spend a little more it will pay of in the long run.
            Too true.
            "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

            Comment


            • #7
              Oh my.........................77you gona chime in ?>
              IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
              Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
              ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
              RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
              LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
              I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
              "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
              http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

              Comment


              • #8
                I was debating it Weruj1........


                Will probably later......
                The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
                We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
                IACOJ

                Comment


                • #9
                  OK, here's our story.........

                  We spec'd out a mini-pumper for my department. We sent it out for bid the first time and got 3 bids back. KME, a company in Indiana (RPI I believe) who sent us a bid 5 years ago when we looked at re-chassising our old one, and I think the 3rd was from Luverne. All bids were higher than we expected, so we threw them out and re-did our specs by taking some of the non-essential things out.

                  We sent them out for bid and then found out we got a FIRE Act grant for $99,000, which was a little over 2/3 of the cost of the ones we initially spec'd . When we got those 2nd bids back, we only got 2. KME and RPI again. KME was the higher bid of the two. We had just recently (1-2 years prior)bought an engine from KME and had no problems with it, so we decided to go with them. And their bid was closer to what we spec'd out, anyways.

                  So, the truck gets ordered in late 2002. We found out that we could no longer get the 2002 F-550 chassis that we spec'd because there weren't anymore available that had our requirements so we were going to get a 2003 chassis. The only differences we were told were that the engine was changed from the 7.3L diesel to a 6.0L that had more horsepower and the transmission changed from a 4 speed automatic to a 5 speed automatic electric transmission.

                  Well, the pump we spec/d was a 500gpm pump. All other manufacturers said they could not put a pump that large in an automatic because you couldn't lock the transmission without voiding the warranty. I talked to some of the people we sent the spec to and that's why they never submitted a bid. They all basically told me that KME could do it because they are a Ford dealer and could handle the warranty work without it costing them.

                  So KME received the chassis and since the transmission had changed, they didn't know how to lock it up so we could use the pump. That was the first major problem. They suggested getting a separate engine for the pump and we said no. That's not what we spec'd. So KME had to work to figure this out. Ford engineers basically said they weren't going to mess with trying to figure it out, and that they would figure it out when someone else did and told them how, which I can't blame Ford for that. They don't need to lock it up for anything.........

                  KME finally figured it out after like 3-4 months, but could only get it to lock up in 3rd gear. They got it pumping 540+ gpm. Everything else went pretty good and we set up dates to go pick it up. It was set up for Thursday June 12, 2003 inspection and delivery. (Salesman would drive it back to our city after we left KME). Monday June 9, in the morning, the chief gets a call from the engineer at KME saying the truck is ready. So we leave on July 11 for the 8 hour drive out there and are there at the factory around 0800-0830 on Thursday the 12th. We sit in the conference room, and after 15-20 minutes in there, we get to go see the truck. As we walk through the factory and can see our truck in the distance, and we also see about 8 guys scrambling around our truck. Some of them are doing detailing things like polishing and such (which I can live with), but the majority of them are still working on it. Working on compartments. Putting the inner panels in. Installing the power locks on the compartments. Installing the latches......... We were not happy!! We were told on Monday morning that the truck was DONE!! Here it is Thursday and they are still working on it!!!

                  We found some things that we didn't think were the way we spec'd them, but apparently they were. I think some changes were made, but that is a totally diferent story...... The RPM gauge on the pump panel didn't work. They told us it wasn't hooked up yet. They opened the panel and it was hooked up. It just didn't work. They put another one in, but it didn't have the hour meter on it like we wanted, so they said they would send us a new one. Some of the LED lights were burnt out. Our SCBA bracket in the back seat was not mounted to a pedestal like we thought. They fabricated a bracket that hooks over the back seat in the middle and has 2 brackets mounted on angles. The only thing that's supposed to hold it in place is the center seat belt, which we had to modify ourselves to hold it securely in place........

                  We get everything done to put it in service and then more problems show up. We keep getting a low battery alarm....... alternator was blown after only having it for like 1 week......... The generator (CPU generator that is similar to an Auragen, where it attaches to the alternator) doesn't work. The one compartment door will not open. Some more LEDs are burnt out one time, then work later. Found some botches in the paint. One window has burn marks on the inside where someone was welding or grinding with the door open......

                  The chief had a list of like 25 items that needed to be fixed. Plus he wanted them to put on 2 hitches (one in front and 1 on rear) and mount 2 mast lights (which we provided) for the inconvenience of not having our truck......... They said we would have it back in approx. 1 week.

                  Well, the two weeks passed (I believe) and then that following weekend it was supposed to be in Columbus, OH for the Ohio Fire Chief's Conference. Well, it never made it. Apparently there were still some "shorts" in the electrical system. The conference goes to Wednesday 07-23-03 (which I believe is the 3 week mark). I believe the Chief is leaving there, and heading to Warren, OH to meet up with the salesmen and then continue on to Nesquehoning, PA to KME. My opinion, which I told the chief, is that if it isn't done correctly, we don't want it. They can eother build us a brand new one that is done correctly, or they can give us back the money and we can get one from somewhere else. Either way, they end up with a brand new lawn ornament, which they already have a couple of. (Actually if you go to their website and look under the used trucks, there is a white engine on there with a rear mounted pump that you can get for real cheap, because someone else had bought it, had all kinds of problems with it, returned it and demanded a new one.)


                  Hopefully we will find out something soon and the truck will be fixed properly and will have no more problems. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, because I like the truck. If you want to see a picture of it, go to www.withthecommand.com and got to the "Hot Rigs" section and it is the Northwood Fire Department one.

                  Now, I want to make it CLEAR that this post does not reflect the views of my fire department, the city I work for, or my co-workers. This is my story about our situation, and some of the things may not be exact, but that is a pretty good overview of the situation. I am in no way trying to bash KME, it's employees, the salesmen, or the comany they work for. I know there are going to be some problems every now and then from EVERY manufacturer, (yes even Seagrave), especially when the truck you have spec'd is a one-of-a-kind truck. (We were told that they have never build a truck like ours before. They have done mini-pumpers, but apparently none like ours)

                  Sorry for the long post.......
                  The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
                  We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
                  IACOJ

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I hear since the KME towers are out, not to be surprised to see ALF Towers in Philly real soon. Any truth to that rumor ?? I know they have an ALF Pumper order pending. Are the ALF's working out ????

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      R1SmokeEater

                      Philly ordered 14 ALF pumpers. I don't beleive they have started taking deleivery yet. As for replacing the two towers, they ordered two on an emergency PO from ALF to replace the KME's.

                      Still trying to find out why they were returned! One thing that was passed on to me was that there were alot of problems with the proximity switches on the ladder and jacks. That there was so much play in them they could never get the switches set right.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        KME'S AERIAL

                        Being involed with the city, it is a shame to the erroneous information being disseminated around the industry. The tower did not respond to any working fires, it was barely in service. The calls it responded to, it could not get to, due to the size of the unit, it is not a tiller (witch it was to replace). Speaking of tillers, one less driver needed, the union was not happy over losing a driver. Station 22 was not happy having the neighboring departments tiller respond to the address they could not reach.

                        I am not pro KME nor am I anti, but lets face it they build an awesome aerial.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Learn about Philly before posting!!!

                          Jomamma- I hate to torpedo your post, but.....

                          -Yes, indeded it did fail at a working box (Philly's terminology for an "All-Hands" job. I dont have the specifics but give me some time if you would like and I will get the date, time, AOF, and box number for you.

                          -Ladder Company 22's first run area, though containing small residential streets, is primarily commercial/industrial. Maneuvering is a concern, but in their "local", not one of great concern. If they could not reach the AOF, they simply would have done what they have been doing for the last 50 years: park the rig, grab the ground ladders, and hoof it in to the scene. Since you dont know Philly, you dont know that the residential sections of Ladder 22's local are row neighborhoods....all they have to do is park the tub of sh*t at the end of the block and walk in less than an 8th or 10th of a mile.

                          -Speaking of tillers and "drivers", you must have forgotten that Philadelphia does not have a "Driver" or a "Chauffer" or an "MPO" or a "FADO" or any of the other names that are out there for designated, rated drivers. In Philadelphia, Firefighters are trained for all positions, and rotate through regularly to maintain proficiency. Company officers rotate the lads every shift, some rotate every tour, some rotate by months, weeks, etc etc. Everyone gets a shot at being the wheelman. So therefore, no "drivers" were lost.

                          -Where is Station 22? I never heard of it!!?? Ladder 22 is quartered with Engine Company 55 at Front and Luzerne Streets. If you are referring to Engine 22, a retirement home up in the far northeast, they would be MORE than willing to let any of the neighboring engine companies (engine 36, engine 62, engine 58) have their work since they are all 20 and 30 year vets and really could care less about giving up action because they were beat in by the second due. As for Ladder 22, being in North Philly, they (North Philly FF's) are so used to losing out on work to other companies because of so many shoe runs, it really doesnt matter. And Ladder 22 isn't a bunch of angels themselves- How many first-in's have the robbed from Ladder 12 over the years? Or Ladder 15? Or 18's? or 10's?

                          "I am not pro KME nor am I anti, but lets face it they build an awesome aerial." Hmmmmmmm Sounds pro KME to me! if KME is such an awesome aerial, why did Philly have som many problems with theirs? What about the other departments having problems with theirs?

                          Before you post again, learn about the department. Oh, and my information is verifiable through the office of AE-1. Since you know about Philly, you know who that is and what he does.

                          Snake and R1Smokeater- Yes, 14 ALF Pumpers are on order. 12 will be of the standard Philly engine company design, and two will have rescue-pumer style bodies, as Philly is currently adapting two engine companies- Engine 72 and Engine 47 to become Squad companies. Their manning, equipment, responses and duties will be styled after FDNY's squad companies. I didnt hear about the two towers on the emergency PO, but I wouldnt be surprised.
                          Last edited by FWDbuff; 07-23-2003, 05:58 PM.
                          "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            smells like shinanigans to me !
                            IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
                            Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
                            ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
                            RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
                            LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
                            I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
                            "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
                            http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I want to congradulate FWDbuff on knowing Philly's acronyms. I would be hard pressed to see you supply me with the info where the KME ladder got "stuck". I would like to see 20-30 year vets run down the street with a 40' ladder that weighs close to 200 pounds. Carrying that heavy load for more than 2 blocks, the guys would not be able to do the job they love so much. I also don't think any truck company likes watching another truck company do their work, when they cannot get to the building (AOF).

                              Comment

                              300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

                              Collapse

                              Upper 300x250

                              Collapse

                              Taboola

                              Collapse

                              Leader

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X