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New Pumper - Pump options

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  • New Pumper - Pump options

    As we start to research our next replacement pumper a bit of discussion has us wondering how people like some of the less traditional pump options: PUC's, other low-pro mid-mounted, rearmounts, etc. Our 2009 rearmount has been pretty well received with some notable exception to issues with the mechanical seal needing frequent replacement. One though is to go back to a standard mid-ship pump, or otherwise try to eliminate the pump issue we seem to be suffering. Anyone else have mechanical issues with a rearmount pump? One school of thought is that the angle of the pump drive is too steep?

  • #2
    Running two rear mount pumper / tenders - one a 2000 GPM Waterous and the other a 2500 GPM Hale - no specific issues with seals - the Hale was rebuilt once - its 20 years old. Both of these are using transfer cases to drive them - I know some rear mounts are PTO driven - and that might account for a drive line angle issue?

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    • #3
      We have a Hale RSD that's been through one mechanical seal that we took delivery of in 2010 (rear mount pumper). Not sure I chalk that up to an issue with the product or maybe our guys getting the pump a little warm once or twice. Taking delivery of another rear mount with a Waterous, which will be PTO driven. Is there an option to spec a pump without a mechanical seal for a rear mount pump and conventional packing instead? I'd ask that question too.

      I'm kind of excited that our next rear mount will have a pretty low hose bed. Give me a few years and I can tell you how this one holds up.

      I AM NOT A FAN of the PUC concept. The intake plumbing is garbage, the REPTO components I've heard seem to have a fair amount of issues. For the love of god, if you go back to midship, use a conventional pump packaged in a manner to give you the "PUC perception that you're somehow gaining space."

      Is your rear mount a Toyne? I seem to recall that. Short wheelbase? Then again I could be completely confused. Which is becoming increasingly common. Wonder if the driveline angles are wonky or if even something can be retrofitted to help fix the issue.

      "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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      • #4
        Our rearmount is Toyne and we've been pretty happy with it, but our pump service people have been spending our money faster on the rearmount than our midship's so we're questioning buying another. As I recall the pump people have mentioned shaft angle as a probably issue? The OAL is just under 33ft, so not that short a wheelbase , but maybe given the position of the pump being in 3 ft or so from the rear the shaft angle is steeper than with others?

        I personally really like the rearmount from a positioning standpoint. No issue lining up for a hydrant or driving into a narrow street or driveway, you can always easily make the pump connection easier than the midship. We're not going back to a top mount, but the pump location is in question for reliability and serviceability? Short of that, general consensus is the next engine will be as similar as possible to the previous Toyne layout.

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        • #5
          We have a new 2019 Puc, so far no problems, also our 2016 mid mount sigal stage 1500 Waterous has had a new deck gun valve replaced all ready with very low pumping hours, maybe due to rust or hard water not sealing properly. The Hale 1500 Gpm Qmax on our old engine was the best, never a problem !

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          • #6
            Originally posted by RFDACM02 View Post
            Our rearmount is Toyne and we've been pretty happy with it, but our pump service people have been spending our money faster on the rearmount than our midship's so we're questioning buying another. As I recall the pump people have mentioned shaft angle as a probably issue? The OAL is just under 33ft, so not that short a wheelbase , but maybe given the position of the pump being in 3 ft or so from the rear the shaft angle is steeper than with others?

            I personally really like the rearmount from a positioning standpoint. No issue lining up for a hydrant or driving into a narrow street or driveway, you can always easily make the pump connection easier than the midship. We're not going back to a top mount, but the pump location is in question for reliability and serviceability? Short of that, general consensus is the next engine will be as similar as possible to the previous Toyne layout.
            If you'd like I can take photos of the driveline angles of our rear mount that we're doing the final inspection on next week. It'll be PTO driven off the transmission instead of split shaft, so that will be different as well.
            "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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            • #7
              Hello to all. Everyone knows how dangerous various conflict devices can be. Sometimes they light up. How safe are electric ATVs, for example: https://www.kidsatvsale.com/electric-atvs-for-kids /. What if he still caught fire? How can I put it out?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by npfd801 View Post

                If you'd like I can take photos of the driveline angles of our rear mount that we're doing the final inspection on next week. It'll be PTO driven off the transmission instead of split shaft, so that will be different as well.
                That would be great, I'd like to be able to at least show why we shouldn't necessarily take the rearmount option completely off the table, or understand why we should...

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                • #9
                  So the photos I took are garbage. I'll take more when at the station next. Our new rear mount is driven off the 1 o'clock PTO port on the transmission (I believe) and runs damn near perfectly straight to the pump gearbox. Since it isn't a split shaft drive, there are no significant angles in the driveline to the pump.

                  I'm pretty excited - the Waterous pump we chose is rated at 1,250 gpm. At draft we were doing 1400+ gpm on their test pit at the plant. The pump is very smooth and driveline noise in minimal.

                  The crummy photos I took are attached. I'll get better ones. The pump driveline is tucked up tight inside the frame.
                  "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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                  • #10
                    So as if on cue, our rearmount pumper went for it's annual service test and immediately failed as the mechanical seal was leaking bad. This makes two in two years. The Chief and their lead pump man discussed what may be occuring and seem to have boiled it down to two possible issues? #1: debris in the pump, but we have none and use only hydrant water. #2 Over heating the pump. This is less obvious to say "No never", but seems unlikely given we leave the pump wet and circulate water whenever the engine is parked in pump gear. Of course can we say that 100% of the time the pump gets circulated? No. That's the practice we teach, but, we're still hiring humans so...

                    Anyone else have thoughts of why a mechanical seal would seems to have a short lifespan? The pump mechanic is contacting Waterous directly, so maybe they'll have some thoughts?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Do you have a thermal relief valve on the pump?

                      We've literally BAKED a Hale DSD (steam pouring out of it, don't ask) and that has a mechanical seal that as far as I know, is original and the rig is a 2006.

                      The seal in our 2010 with a Hale RSD has been replaced once, so who knows if that's an indicator then I don't why that one failed and the 06 hasn't.. The 06 is a top mount panel vs. the 2010 being a rear mount, so who knows. A neighbor has a Waterous that needs the seal replaced - the mechanic is thinking that it was over pressurized in a relay pumping operation. Not sure if that's the real reason or not, but he think it looks that way.

                      Hopefully Waterous has an idea?
                      "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        npfd801 - who built your new rear-mount?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SBLGFD View Post
                          npfd801 - who built your new rear-mount?
                          The 2019 is a Rosenbauer from the Minnesota facility. This will be our third from them, one was a 2005, the other a 2006. We strayed on a demo quint for a grant funded "used" rig (Smeal, no regrets) and an engine in 2010 (horrible mistake, from a builder I won't shame here). Hopefully this one is as trouble free as the two prior Minnesota rigs.

                          The 2005 was an interface style rig we just didn't have the uses for any longer than we did when purchased, it now lives where it should doing interface work in Arizona and on contract for the government. I'm very happy for it. Resale was great, sold a rig we paid $240,000 for in 2005 for $150,000 last year.
                          "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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