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  • donethat
    replied
    Originally posted by RFD21C View Post
    Like others have said we have piled on more and more equipment onto our engines. Add to that the newer safety and other required stuff the truck gets bigger. Add to that the mine is bigger then yours contest. We get the huge trucks

    The one thing that i still have not figured out is the raised cab. why?

    Yes i understand it increases the headroom in the cab.

    Why do i need extra head room if i am seated and belted?

    Then after you increase the height of the cab by 8-10 inches most people put in the specs that the body must meet the height of the cab.
    Exactly! You nailed it! It only encourages members to stand up during a response.
    Last edited by donethat; 02-09-2011, 03:18 PM.

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  • RFD21C
    replied
    Like others have said we have piled on more and more equipment onto our engines. Add to that the newer safety and other required stuff the truck gets bigger. Add to that the mine is bigger then yours contest. We get the huge trucks

    The one thing that i still have not figured out is the raised cab. why?

    Yes i understand it increases the headroom in the cab.

    Why do i need extra head room if i am seated and belted?

    Then after you increase the height of the cab by 8-10 inches most people put in the specs that the body must meet the height of the cab.

    Leave a comment:


  • firefightinirish217
    replied
    Originally posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    Have to agree with nameless on this one. Outside of pure injustice, you carry no liability to your capabilities.

    At one point in time, pumpers never carried any kind of EMS/BLS equipment. For the most part, most do now. Same with extrication equipment that were put on the trucks/aerials only. Now they do.

    There is also a trickle down effect, if you will. While the trucks/aerials are getting loaded down with more equipment and tools, they also need to shed some of their work load and tools down to the pumpers.
    Going back to extrication, we used to send to a MVA with entrapment, a Med Unit, Engine, Truck, and a Rescue. Today, we send the aforementioned, minus the Truck. It saves on manpower, and frees up the truck for a worker, where it is needed most.

    @ firefightinirish217... unless you are ForceRecon, you learn to do more with less. Just saying.

    FM1
    Except that you just justified my whole comment. The point of this thread was engines getting bigger. Add rescue tools, medical equipment, etc. and BAM, bigger engine. You guys went a little far into my post there guys. My point was that all of our engines, Sutphens had equpiment they needed, nothing more. They were bigger because that equipment needed wouldn't fit on the frame and body of an engine the size of the 80' and 70's engines we had. You see where I'm going here?

    Oh, and Force Recon are the boys that do more with less ole buddy. They go in light, come out light.

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  • Command6
    replied
    My military analogy of fire operations has always been this:

    The engine company is the infantry.

    The ladder company is cavalry.

    C6

    Leave a comment:


  • FIREMECH1
    replied
    Originally posted by nameless View Post
    You are going to get sued because your first out engine didn't have some axillary piece of equipment? Interesting.

    I'm all for being prepared, but I'd rather have a piece that functions well 99% of the time and might come up short 1% of the time. Than have a truck built for the 1%, but isn't built well for all the other stuff I do.
    Have to agree with nameless on this one. Outside of pure injustice, you carry no liability to your capabilities.

    At one point in time, pumpers never carried any kind of EMS/BLS equipment. For the most part, most do now. Same with extrication equipment that were put on the trucks/aerials only. Now they do.

    There is also a trickle down effect, if you will. While the trucks/aerials are getting loaded down with more equipment and tools, they also need to shed some of their work load and tools down to the pumpers.
    Going back to extrication, we used to send to a MVA with entrapment, a Med Unit, Engine, Truck, and a Rescue. Today, we send the aforementioned, minus the Truck. It saves on manpower, and frees up the truck for a worker, where it is needed most.

    @ firefightinirish217... unless you are ForceRecon, you learn to do more with less. Just saying.

    FM1

    Leave a comment:


  • nameless
    replied
    Originally posted by firefightinirish217 View Post
    Because that once in a lifetime fire that you're not prepared for could be that once in a lifetime law suit you don't want.
    You are going to get sued because your first out engine didn't have some axillary piece of equipment? Interesting.

    I'm all for being prepared, but I'd rather have a piece that functions well 99% of the time and might come up short 1% of the time. Than have a truck built for the 1%, but isn't built well for all the other stuff I do.

    Leave a comment:


  • firefightinirish217
    replied
    Originally posted by don120 View Post
    NO it's just because bigger is better...didn't you know that....

    I've just retired after 32 years..90-95% of the fires I went to were put out with less than 100 gallons out water.

    Why so many are building trucks for that 1 in lifetime fire, god only knows.
    Because that once in a lifetime fire that you're not prepared for could be that once in a lifetime law suit you don't want.

    Being in the military we understand the value of being prepared for the unlikely. Having the mentality of better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Of course, I had this mentality before being a Marine or even being a firefighter. I grew up with this mentality tromping around up in the mountains of North Georgia. You don't want to get stuck out overnight unprepared, smae concept.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rescue101
    replied
    Originally posted by Command6 View Post
    10-year pumper: $375,000.00

    20-year pumper: 475,000.00

    The 10-year pumper we purchased in 1994 is still in front line service with over 100,000 miles. A lot of the bean counters can remember to the penny how much that truck cost, but they seem to have amnesia about the 10-year part of the conversation.

    C6
    That amnesia thing you speak of is WAY more common than you might think,hehe T.C.

    Leave a comment:


  • donethat
    replied
    D --- All Of The Above

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  • Command6
    replied
    10-year pumper: $375,000.00

    20-year pumper: 475,000.00

    The 10-year pumper we purchased in 1994 is still in front line service with over 100,000 miles. A lot of the bean counters can remember to the penny how much that truck cost, but they seem to have amnesia about the 10-year part of the conversation.

    C6

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim1118
    replied
    Originally posted by viperfire1 View Post
    I wish there were some sort of requirement that if you purchase a piece of fire apparatus with taxpayer dollars you had to have x number of hours and/or x number of miles on the vehicle before you were allowed to replace it. Of course I don't actually wish that... but I believe some departments would spec their vehicles much more carefully if they knew that it would be in service for 30+ years and they had to use it.
    I think that a high majority are currently spec'ing them to last 20-30 years, hence the larger size and heavier equipment... but ending up with a 10-year truck. It's sad that the economy dictates how we're able to (safely/effectively/efficiently) do our jobs... but, we all know that's part of the deal.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rescue101
    replied
    Originally posted by viperfire1 View Post
    I wish there were some sort of requirement that if you purchase a piece of fire apparatus with taxpayer dollars you had to have x number of hours and/or x number of miles on the vehicle before you were allowed to replace it. Of course I don't actually wish that... but I believe some departments would spec their vehicles much more carefully if they knew that it would be in service for 30+ years and they had to use it.
    Nope, already DOING that. I build them for 20 but SPEC them for thirty. And 25 is their REALISTIC run HERE. T.C.

    Leave a comment:


  • firesarge69
    replied
    To add to what C6 said, we are the ones everyone turns to when the cops and public works wont do the job. In my area we were tasked with having to search for missing persons using a radio frequency device. Not that it is that busy but it was something the cops did not want to deal with. It seem that when nobody knows who to pass a job off to the fire dept. is usually the ones to handle it, haz-mat, tech rescue, missing persons, extracation, ems,......

    Leave a comment:


  • viperfire1
    replied
    I wish there were some sort of requirement that if you purchase a piece of fire apparatus with taxpayer dollars you had to have x number of hours and/or x number of miles on the vehicle before you were allowed to replace it. Of course I don't actually wish that... but I believe some departments would spec their vehicles much more carefully if they knew that it would be in service for 30+ years and they had to use it.

    Leave a comment:


  • nameless
    replied
    The equipment list of an engine or truck has definitely increased. Engines used to get away with very little compartment space, all they needed was space for a few hand tools and some extra nozzles and assorted hose fittings and appliances. They also were able to mount things on the exterior, something we barely do any more. Trucks were the same, hand tools, ladders, tarps, and buckets was good enough. Moving from open cabs and "canopy cabs" to fully enclosed caused the cab to greatly increase.

    Personally I think apparatus are getting larger than necessary and many of us are carrying excessive equipment.

    Leave a comment:

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