Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Nfpa 1917?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Ambulance Std's

    My understanding is the NFPA Committee is combining the KKK, and the Ambulance Manufactuers Association std's and some of the Safety Initiatives from NFPA 1901 to come up with a universal North American Standard. I'm sure some kinks will have to be worked out on the first pass.

    And there are some Ambulances built with small water tanks, water pumps and hose reels.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by donethat View Post
      And there are some Ambulances built with small water tanks, water pumps and hose reels.
      I was getting ready to address that when I saw your post. There are several out there that have just like what you describe, and some that have chemical suppression systems, most with fire-based EMS. I've also seen some that will do the chemical-bases systems for EMS services that still provide extrication.

      That particular section could potentially also apply to cord reels and other electrical systems that you can end up with when you cross EMS with fire.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by eagle5473 View Post
        I would think further editions will place more stress on pt and crew safety, with the elimination in many cases of the bench and CPR seats that tend to kill many EMT's by there poor design.
        Well I hope they don't ditch the bench anytime soon, I routinely haul 2 pt's. I do wish they would eliminate type II ambulances. They are too top heavy, and the supplies always seem to pop out like a can of worms. Also roof strength is much less than a box. I've run out of all three types, and can't think of a time where I would have preferred a type II.

        Comment


        • #19
          I thought this might start something.

          FIREMEDIC1 - I never said ALL fire companys don't take care of there ambulances as they do fire apparatus only some. If you look around you well see a difference. With putting stuff in an O2 compartment - If you follow NFPA guidelines all tools and equipment are suppose to be "secured" in brackets and crash worthy. Us putting PPE in that compartment should not cause any harm. (Helmet Coat and Pants)

          BoxAlarm 187 - Our department, while it may be a Ambulance & Rescue Company. We are controlled via a Fire & Rescue Association which is mostly fire side heavy. We have personnel that fight fire along side our brothers on the fire side. It is just a different mindset, if you will, between the two as to what is most important.

          eagle 5473 - While I can agree there needs to be a way to have a restraint system for attendants in the back of an ambulance. Having an alarm go off in the back of the ambulance while a patient is in the back is not wise. Can you imagine what that patient would think if all of a sudden an alarm goes off while transporting. It will scare the sh** out of him. Then I got to clean that up. If you are doing any type of definitive patient care, you are moving around. Checking airway, Vital signs. Re-evaluating the patient from head to toe. Adjusting O2, gotta grab a puke pan, or Kleenex, what about other getting other bandages. Talk on the EMS Radio to the "Doc in the box" etc etc. Can't do these things sitting in one spot when the items you need are located in different areas of the unit and you cant put everything you need at you finger tips.

          Just some thoughts.

          nc

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by nc1130 View Post
            eagle 5473 - While I can agree there needs to be a way to have a restraint system for attendants in the back of an ambulance. Having an alarm go off in the back of the ambulance while a patient is in the back is not wise. Can you imagine what that patient would think if all of a sudden an alarm goes off while transporting. It will scare the sh** out of him. Then I got to clean that up. If you are doing any type of definitive patient care, you are moving around. Checking airway, Vital signs. Re-evaluating the patient from head to toe. Adjusting O2, gotta grab a puke pan, or Kleenex, what about other getting other bandages. Talk on the EMS Radio to the "Doc in the box" etc etc. Can't do these things sitting in one spot when the items you need are located in different areas of the unit and you cant put everything you need at you finger tips.
            I haven't a clue how busy your agency, or if you're BLS or ALS, but I can transport 90% of my patients to the hospital seated (and belted) in the CPR chair on the driver's side of the box. Doing about 8-12 transports a day on my medic unit, very few of these patients (even if they're candidates for ALS care) require the attendant to be bouncing all over the back of the box.

            Perhaps your agency can look at re-designing some of the cabinetry in the back to put some of the more critical items closer together to prevent you from having to go from cabinet to cabinet and seat to seat?

            I don't think you're going to find a patient freaking out if an alarm goes off, seriously. I'm not a fan of the audible alarms in the ambulances (though I think the visual alarms are a good idea, and like to see both in the fire apparatus), but I don't believe they're creating a patient care issue.
            Career Fire Captain
            Volunteer Chief Officer


            Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

            Comment


            • #21
              NC,

              just because you need to jump from seat to seat to get things using the current design of yours and 99% of ALL ambulances in the US does not make it the the right way to provide care in a moving vehicle.

              Take the time to look to Austrailia and Europe to see how they are working and how those ambulances are set up. Most have the equipment you need in arms reach with forward facing seats. Some of these designs do have folding seats to allow for carrying of a second pt.

              There was a comment above as well that the type 2 should be done away with . I have to disagree in that there have been studies that show they are safer than a type I or III. This is due to the face that the entire Chassis and side structures of the type II's are subject to dynamic crash tests. There are few type III's or I's bodies that have ben dynamicly (destroyed) crash tested to NHTSA standards .

              Eagle

              Comment


              • #22
                O.K. folks, lets try to keep a civil dialog going here. Personal shots at each other do not make anyone sound more intelligent on a subject. If anyone has a different point of view on the topic then post it, but do not step on others views in order to make your point.

                I posted the comment about removing Type II's from service. I unfortunately have had experience with both vans and boxes in accidents, and can attest the boxes always held up better. The NFPA standard lists that boxes must be able to hold 2.5 times the weight of the vehicle, vs. vans only having the normal 1.5.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
                  I haven't a clue how busy your agency, or if you're BLS or ALS, but I can transport 90% of my patients to the hospital seated (and belted) in the CPR chair on the driver's side of the box. Doing about 8-12 transports a day on my medic unit, very few of these patients (even if they're candidates for ALS care) require the attendant to be bouncing all over the back of the box.

                  Perhaps your agency can look at re-designing some of the cabinetry in the back to put some of the more critical items closer together to prevent you from having to go from cabinet to cabinet and seat to seat?

                  I don't think you're going to find a patient freaking out if an alarm goes off, seriously. I'm not a fan of the audible alarms in the ambulances (though I think the visual alarms are a good idea, and like to see both in the fire apparatus), but I don't believe they're creating a patient care issue.
                  Even so, I can't imagine NFPA designing a standard that doesn't allow the attendant in the box to get up and move around. That's the ONLY riding position allowed to be without a seatbelt when you look at NFPA 1500. I'm wonder if the seat alarm is intended for the front-seat occupants and sounds in the front and rear to notify everyone that someone's out of the seat or unrestrained or whatever.

                  Realistically, you're right in that 90% of transports can be done belted and secured. With NiBP, pulse oximetry, cardiac monitoring, etc. there's no need to get up for vitals, and the AutoPulse/LUCAS and other devices coupled with a ventilator reduce the need to be out of the seat even on a code. Just put the drug bag on the floor beside you and grab what you need.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Didn't mean to set everyone off. Just trying to show how some of the new requirements in NFPA 1917 don't make much sense. With having an alarm on the seating positions - I have no real problem with lights in the cab of the vehicle just don't need it in the patient compartment.
                    We have AutoPulse's on all units, the Medic is on the squad bench seat, a BLS provider is in the Captains Chair doing ventilations. Still have to move around even if you have to change the batteries of the unit.
                    To visit my company go to: www.bvar19.com

                    nc

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by nc1130 View Post
                      Didn't mean to set everyone off. Just trying to show how some of the new requirements in NFPA 1917 don't make much sense. With having an alarm on the seating positions - I have no real problem with lights in the cab of the vehicle just don't need it in the patient compartment.
                      We have AutoPulse's on all units, the Medic is on the squad bench seat, a BLS provider is in the Captains Chair doing ventilations. Still have to move around even if you have to change the batteries of the unit.
                      To visit my company go to: www.bvar19.com

                      nc
                      I wouldn't worry too much about setting people off, it happens. The internet world is wonderful in the fact that you can't express emotion or anything with your posts and it's easy to take someone as being confrontational when they're not.

                      I worked rural EMS for a number of years and the greatest thing we ever got was the AutoPulse. We could get the AutoPulse on, get them on the cot, hook up the oxylator to the tube and all I had to do as the medic was watch the monitor and push a drug every now and then. It's virtually hands-off.

                      I for one took advantage of that fact and buckled up until the point I had to get up to do something. I'd usuall take my position on the bench, put the drug bag beside me, and go to town. I could reassess whatever I needed and never leave my seat unless it was something important I needed to do. I preferred that much more than the days I used to have to have someone bagging, someone compressing, and me jumping over them to push drugs or work the monitor. All it took was one wreck and one time nearly wrecking (my fine partner drove the right side off into a ditch) to convince me it's not worth riding in the back without a belt.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        right you are

                        Originally posted by MemphisE34a View Post
                        I think you are both correct and incorrect. Although the Federal KKK standards themselves may not have been intended to be used as a national "standard", many states (at least in the south) in the absence of such and being to lazy to delevop there own simply enact laws that adopt federal kkk regulations and it becomes law.
                        KKK is actually a GSA designator and the key person in charge of that process is either retiring or moving to another office and the feds don't want it anymore. That is from an instructor I met at the Orlando conference

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Another thing I noticed, is the 72 MPH speed restriction. That isn't going to go over well here, we routinely have 20 mile transports, and 100 mile transfers. I don't think I would enjoy working a code, and watching traffic blow by me.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ADC120 View Post
                            Another thing I noticed, is the 72 MPH speed restriction. That isn't going to go over well here, we routinely have 20 mile transports, and 100 mile transfers. I don't think I would enjoy working a code, and watching traffic blow by me.
                            Seriously?

                            I've spent a couple years at an EMS agency that routinely did 100+ mile transfers also and can tell you that 72 mph is more than adequate.

                            At 72 mph, a 20 mile transport assuming essentially the whole trip can be made at that speed equates to no more than a 20 minute transport time. I've worked many codes and other serious illness/injury patients with 20 minute transport times and it really wasn't that big of a deal.

                            Unless you can take the interstate door to door on all of your calls, a 72 mph top limit shouldn't be much of an issue for anybody.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I'm just curious, how fast does an overweight, top-heavy box on wheels need to go?

                              I know it's not representative of every EMT/Medic, but the most I know have this uncontrollable desire to drive an ambulance like something out of the NASCAR truck series.

                              Besides, if NFPA is involved, I'm sure they're wanting compliance with the provisions of 1500, which is driving the speed limit regardless of whether L&S are going or not.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ADC120 View Post
                                Another thing I noticed, is the 72 MPH speed restriction. That isn't going to go over well here, we routinely have 20 mile transports, and 100 mile transfers. I don't think I would enjoy working a code, and watching traffic blow by me.
                                Why does the length of the response effect the speed you're going? As the other posters have said, there's little need to drive an ambulance faster than 72mph.
                                Career Fire Captain
                                Volunteer Chief Officer


                                Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

                                Comment

                                300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

                                Collapse

                                Upper 300x250

                                Collapse

                                Taboola

                                Collapse

                                Leader

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X