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  • 93Cobra
    replied
    Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Reading COMPREHENSION 101. I OWN a Towing and Recovery business. I PROBABLY spend more time than YOU do working under lights of ALL types. I know ALL about the Whelen product line,we're a end user of many of their products. I work in a Rural area and MY experiences with the Pioneers DO NOT mirror yours. Great scene light but when it come to projecting into the woods to see my "target",I'll take the Hid every time,thank you. In MY area you can't even keep a HALOGEN light deiced; Leds DON'T work for ME with the exception of warning lights. So keep telling me I don't know lights or what I'm doing. I've only been running a tow truck for 47 years( I started operating my Dad's equipment at 10 yo), so I guess unless I put Led lights on my rigs I better not go out at night. Just AIN'T seeing that happening. As they perfect Leds with long range capabilities we will probably start the migration toward them. That TIME however,IS NOT NOW.
    I do comprehend what you are saying. However, please note that I DID NOT say that you do not know lights or that you do not know what you are doing. I respect your opinion, and I never said anything to the contrary.

    Also, take note of the attached information on LED lights. This is a new document that I have not seen before explaining the light in detail.
    http://www.jwspeaker.com/file_downlo...mps+to+LED.pdf
    Last edited by 93Cobra; 02-09-2011, 11:42 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rescue101
    replied
    Reading COMPREHENSION 101. I OWN a Towing and Recovery business. I PROBABLY spend more time than YOU do working under lights of ALL types. I know ALL about the Whelen product line,we're a end user of many of their products. I work in a Rural area and MY experiences with the Pioneers DO NOT mirror yours. Great scene light but when it come to projecting into the woods to see my "target",I'll take the Hid every time,thank you. In MY area you can't even keep a HALOGEN light deiced; Leds DON'T work for ME with the exception of warning lights. So keep telling me I don't know lights or what I'm doing. I've only been running a tow truck for 47 years( I started operating my Dad's equipment at 10 yo), so I guess unless I put Led lights on my rigs I better not go out at night. Just AIN'T seeing that happening. As they perfect Leds with long range capabilities we will probably start the migration toward them. That TIME however,IS NOT NOW.

    Leave a comment:


  • 93Cobra
    replied
    Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Cobra, I've DRIVEN about every lighting option there is out there. Including 100's of thousands of miles with the the ones you find INFERIOR. I've also got a lot of hours working under lights,doing winching and recovery. For RECOVERY jobs the HID is so far ahead of the Leds as to be not even a contender. We'll use the early version Whelen worklight as an example. The Whelen worklight is a NICE light. The NEW gen version is even NICER. But it DOESN'T have the REACH of the Hid. Whelen has been messing with Led's for a while now, and they are JUST NOW getting one they are comfortable selling as a takedown in their lightbars. I know I'm an aging breed but NEVER in over 39 years of professional driving have I EVER NOT been able to see where I'm going. The things I LIKE about Leds is the long life. Things I don't like,they run cool and ice easily. Plus the expense involved in changing out 11 vehicles. The PLUS of the Led doesn't outweigh the minuses for what WE do. And I don't think I'm the MINORITY in this regard. If you think Led is the only way to go,then that is what you should spec. But there are plenty of very adequate systems BESIDES the Led. T.C.
    Yes, I also have many miles with HID lights (GM vehicles) and still have to say that I do not like them. I cannot tell you how many vehicles I see on the freeway with an HID burned out... these are on newer vehicles too!
    We have used scene lights that are HID and do not care for them. I have also used Whelen Pioneer scene lights (LED PFP2) and these light up the entire world. From my use, the HID is a bright light with nothing that can focus the light. The LED light produced from the Pioneer light is well focused and cuts through smoke effectively. I have seen these as scene lights on the sides of trucks as well as at the tips of aerials... all do a much better job than the HID.

    You guys that continue to throw your hands in the air with anything LED need to get out and try them. I will bet you that once you try them, you will see EXACTLY what I am talking about. I would never be an advocate for something without trying both out. I am explaining my findings from an even comparison... both headlights and scene lights.

    Leave a comment:


  • FIREMECH1
    replied
    Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Cobra, I've DRIVEN about every lighting option there is out there. Including 100's of thousands of miles with the the ones you find INFERIOR. I've also got a lot of hours working under lights,doing winching and recovery. For RECOVERY jobs the HID is so far ahead of the Leds as to be not even a contender. We'll use the early version Whelen worklight as an example. The Whelen worklight is a NICE light. The NEW gen version is even NICER. But it DOESN'T have the REACH of the Hid. Whelen has been messing with Led's for a while now, and they are JUST NOW getting one they are comfortable selling as a takedown in their lightbars. I know I'm an aging breed but NEVER in over 39 years of professional driving have I EVER NOT been able to see where I'm going. The things I LIKE about Leds is the long life. Things I don't like,they run cool and ice easily. Plus the expense involved in changing out 11 vehicles. The PLUS of the Led doesn't outweigh the minuses for what WE do. And I don't think I'm the MINORITY in this regard. If you think Led is the only way to go,then that is what you should spec. But there are plenty of very adequate systems BESIDES the Led. T.C.
    Yep, that pretty much sums it up, for me too. WELL DONE.

    FM1

    Leave a comment:


  • firefightinirish217
    replied
    Originally posted by RoaddoggAK View Post
    I just wanted to say thank you to all the people on here with all the knowledge regarding apparatus. You've all been a great help, weather you've known it or not. I've picked up a lot in the conversations and the pm's/threads that I was involved in and it went a long way in specing our new pumper. Thanks again.

    Here's the rundown:
    2011 Sutphen Monarch Rescue Pumper
    224" wb
    2009 Cummins ISM 500 hp
    EVS4000 transmission
    Hale QMAX 2000 gpm top mount pump
    FoamLogix 3.3 Foam system plumbed to 3 1-3/4" + booster line
    UPF 750 gal tank with 25 gal Class A foam cell
    15k SmartPower generator
    HID headlights (not LED's )
    Hosebed handles 1500' of 5" + 3 250' 3" preconnected lines
    Beautiful rig brother. I used to be on the job at Dalton Fire Department in Dalton, GA. They went back to Sutphens while I was there starting in 2001. They had a short stint with E-One, didn't last long. Anyway, PM me if you want to give me your email address and I'll send you some pics. Again, beautiful rig.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rescue101
    replied
    Originally posted by 93Cobra View Post
    You would have to have the opportunity to try both styles back to back in the same environments. Once you do that, you will see the clear difference. This was all that we needed to change our spec around to include them. Plus, the LED was a cheaper option than the HID.
    Cobra, I've DRIVEN about every lighting option there is out there. Including 100's of thousands of miles with the the ones you find INFERIOR. I've also got a lot of hours working under lights,doing winching and recovery. For RECOVERY jobs the HID is so far ahead of the Leds as to be not even a contender. We'll use the early version Whelen worklight as an example. The Whelen worklight is a NICE light. The NEW gen version is even NICER. But it DOESN'T have the REACH of the Hid. Whelen has been messing with Led's for a while now, and they are JUST NOW getting one they are comfortable selling as a takedown in their lightbars. I know I'm an aging breed but NEVER in over 39 years of professional driving have I EVER NOT been able to see where I'm going. The things I LIKE about Leds is the long life. Things I don't like,they run cool and ice easily. Plus the expense involved in changing out 11 vehicles. The PLUS of the Led doesn't outweigh the minuses for what WE do. And I don't think I'm the MINORITY in this regard. If you think Led is the only way to go,then that is what you should spec. But there are plenty of very adequate systems BESIDES the Led. T.C.

    Leave a comment:


  • 93Cobra
    replied
    Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
    HID's have been around a hell of a lot LONGER than LED's. They have a proven track history and in MY experience are quite reliable. I know you're hopped right up on Led's but I've driven an awful lot of equipment over the years and I'm NOT a LED headlight freak. Like all the "new"technology you will see more and more mfgs using them but more light than a HID? Just NOT seeing it. T.C.
    You would have to have the opportunity to try both styles back to back in the same environments. Once you do that, you will see the clear difference. This was all that we needed to change our spec around to include them. Plus, the LED was a cheaper option than the HID.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rescue101
    replied
    Originally posted by 93Cobra View Post
    Ah... I wish I could have had you drive our new pumper with them (we are in northeast Ohio). We drove a truck with HID's and compared to the LED and it was a night and day difference. The HID lights have a xenon gas and an igniter, and will have a very short life if they are not used with care. Our experience has been that HID's are very temperamental. LED's have been around for a while and everything else on the truck was LED... so, we went with LED. These lights have really made a name for themselves locally and many departments are retrofitting their trucks as well as spec'ing them on new trucks (regardless of manufacturer). Car manufacturers are now adopting this technology as they have realized HID is on its way out. The Cadillac Escalade Platinum and a few others are the first vehicles to start using this on the road. HELLA makes the headlights for those vehicles.



    HID's have been around a hell of a lot LONGER than LED's. They have a proven track history and in MY experience are quite reliable. I know you're hopped right up on Led's but I've driven an awful lot of equipment over the years and I'm NOT a LED headlight freak. Like all the "new"technology you will see more and more mfgs using them but more light than a HID? Just NOT seeing it. T.C.

    Leave a comment:


  • FFWALT
    replied
    Originally posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    Personally, I've always disliked the look of Sutphen's front cab lights... It IS distinctive though- you'll always know a Sutphen when you see one.
    They are distinctive. What I always like is the Q in the grill. Think there is one other builder that can do that (HME?) so that makes the beautiful Sutphen distinct as well.

    Walt

    Leave a comment:


  • 93Cobra
    replied
    Ah... I wish I could have had you drive our new pumper with them (we are in northeast Ohio). We drove a truck with HID's and compared to the LED and it was a night and day difference. The HID lights have a xenon gas and an igniter, and will have a very short life if they are not used with care. Our experience has been that HID's are very temperamental. LED's have been around for a while and everything else on the truck was LED... so, we went with LED. These lights have really made a name for themselves locally and many departments are retrofitting their trucks as well as spec'ing them on new trucks (regardless of manufacturer). Car manufacturers are now adopting this technology as they have realized HID is on its way out. The Cadillac Escalade Platinum and a few others are the first vehicles to start using this on the road. HELLA makes the headlights for those vehicles.



    Leave a comment:


  • RoaddoggAK
    replied
    Originally posted by 93Cobra View Post
    Just curious why you didn't go with the LED headlights since they are cheaper than the HID, have a longer warranty than the HID, and produce a better light for night time operation. Those were the three specific items that got us into those lights when we spec'ed / received our Sutphen pumper.
    It was a lot of what we are comfortable with. The HID's are a "widely" used item in our county, with a dozen or so units in service. We really knew what we would be getting into, and our mechanic is comfortable with them. We also were able to drive a couple of units that have them, as our immediate mutual aid has them. All in all, it was a product that we liked, and not one that was still a relatively unknown unit.

    Leave a comment:


  • 93Cobra
    replied
    Originally posted by RoaddoggAK View Post
    I just wanted to say thank you to all the people on here with all the knowledge regarding apparatus. You've all been a great help, weather you've known it or not. I've picked up a lot in the conversations and the pm's/threads that I was involved in and it went a long way in specing our new pumper. Thanks again.

    Here's the rundown:
    2011 Sutphen Monarch Rescue Pumper
    224" wb
    2009 Cummins ISM 500 hp
    EVS4000 transmission
    Hale QMAX 2000 gpm top mount pump
    FoamLogix 3.3 Foam system plumbed to 3 1-3/4" + booster line
    UPF 750 gal tank with 25 gal Class A foam cell
    15k SmartPower generator
    HID headlights (not LED's )
    Hosebed handles 1500' of 5" + 3 250' 3" preconnected lines
    Just curious why you didn't go with the LED headlights since they are cheaper than the HID, have a longer warranty than the HID, and produce a better light for night time operation. Those were the three specific items that got us into those lights when we spec'ed / received our Sutphen pumper.

    Leave a comment:


  • RoaddoggAK
    replied
    Originally posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    Nice rig. I like the guard they built to protect that light tower from tree limbs!

    Personally, I've always disliked the look of Sutphen's front cab lights... It IS distinctive though- you'll always know a Sutphen when you see one.

    How many does that cab seat?
    The guard is an evil necessity. We don't have one on our other engine, but it's a flat cab. I can definitely see trees getting hit with this one.

    The cab seats 6 total. We didn't like the amount of room that the standard length cab gave us, we were knocking knees in street clothes. We also have the LFD cab on our 1993 Sutphens with 7 total seats. Needless to say, it's huge in there with only the 4 seats in the back.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nozzle nut 22
    replied
    Nice rig. I like the guard they built to protect that light tower from tree limbs!

    Personally, I've always disliked the look of Sutphen's front cab lights... It IS distinctive though- you'll always know a Sutphen when you see one.

    How many does that cab seat?

    Leave a comment:


  • RoaddoggAK
    replied
    Originally posted by nameless View Post
    Whats the height of the hose bed? It looks lower than most of the other rescue pumpers I've seen.
    Bottom of the hosebed is 5' from the tailboard. The top is 7'8" from the tailboard, so it's a shade under 10'. overall height is 10'7". OAL is 34'7".

    Leave a comment:

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