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Pinned Aerial Waterways

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  • Rescue101
    replied
    Well you're RIGHT on one point. The Metz is NOT, nor was ever, designed to be a TOWER. As far as Civilians climbing down,I don't think you will have a lot of luck with that on ANY aerial. Oh,it's DONE,but I can't think of ONE civilian that has ENJOYED it. Beats the alternative however.When I was WORKING off it(Metz),IT WASN'T at the show,and I WASN'T in the bucket. Opening a roof on an old Maine farmhouse. Climbed the Metz WITH saw in hand,no problems(was doing a water evolution so already elevated). So with ALL that said,a Smealin' I will go,hehe T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 11-01-2010, 08:43 AM.

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  • RFDACM02
    replied
    Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
    You keep talking about a "impeded climbing area" as if you spent time WORKING off a Metz,which I KNOW you haven't. I HAVE and there are NO issues climbing with the waterway in place. And my feet aren't all that small.
    No, you're right, I'm just looking at pictures taken from the cart looking down the aerial and the waterway narrows the climbing area a lot. BTW, who's running this thing if I was taking pictures? The reality is that while many of us would have little issue with the waterway, the same is not true of some firefighters and a good portion of civilians.
    Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
    There ARE places (MANY) where a smaller aerial fits the Bill. I'd a WHOLE lot rather have a Metz than ANY currently produced '75 footer which is the ONLY thing American comparable in size.. T.C.
    I agree wholeheartedly, with you here. I wish the guys next door to us had Metz instead of a Rosie 75', though they make that work nicely. My comment was in the context of comparing the Metz to typical tower ladders. As I've said before, I don't dislike the Metz, I'm just not buying into the "be all end all" mentality for a second.

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  • Rescue101
    replied
    Originally posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Pinned shopping cart and a waterway that impedes climbing? No thanks.

    I'll bet you see a few more American aerials with waterways that won't crush on parapets in the upcoming year. My understanding is that FDNY will not accept a tower ladder with a waterway on the underside.
    You keep talking about a "impeded climbing area" as if you spent time WORKING off a Metz,which I KNOW you haven't. I HAVE and there are NO issues climbing with the waterway in place. And my feet aren't all that small.There ARE places (MANY) where a smaller aerial fits the Bill. I'd a WHOLE lot rather have a Metz than ANY currently produced '75 footer which is the ONLY thing American comparable in size.. T.C.

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  • VanIsleEVT
    replied
    Pinned shopping cart and a waterway that impedes climbing? No thanks.

    I'll bet you see a few more American aerials with waterways that won't crush on parapets in the upcoming year. My understanding is that FDNY will not accept a tower ladder with a waterway on the underside.
    Why take the stairs when you take the elevator.

    Maybe FDNY will be ordering Sutphens then, they've always done it that way.

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  • RFDACM02
    replied
    Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Hmmn.........Did you ALSO take time to note there is NO "pinned" waterway on a Metz?
    Originally posted by VanIsleEVT View Post
    You mean a Metz right. No waterway to worry about crushing and extreme speed for rescue. And with that extreme speed you get target control ( optional ) and smoothness like no other.
    Pinned shopping cart and a waterway that impedes climbing? No thanks.

    I'll bet you see a few more American aerials with waterways that won't crush on parapets in the upcoming year. My understanding is that FDNY will not accept a tower ladder with a waterway on the underside.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rescue101
    replied
    Originally posted by VanIsleEVT View Post
    You mean a Metz right. No waterway to worry about crushing and extreme speed for rescue. And with that extreme speed you get target control ( optional ) and smoothness like no other.
    Hmmn.........Did you ALSO take time to note there is NO "pinned" waterway on a Metz?
    And the fact that you CAN get a full waterway if you so desire? AND not lose any of the other features by doing so? T.C.

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  • VanIsleEVT
    replied
    Tower trumps everything.
    You mean a Metz right. No waterway to worry about crushing and extreme speed for rescue. And with that extreme speed you get target control ( optional ) and smoothness like no other.

    Leave a comment:


  • RoofTopTrucky
    replied
    Due to the few times that we have used the ladder pipe in the past, we keep it in the rescue position. If its Big Fire needing big water, change it over before you start flying

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  • RFDACM02
    replied
    Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Ah Hah genius,our QUINT has NO such problem. AND NO pesky pin to worry about on the waterway. AND DOES NOT require a FF in the Bucket to make the Ladder monitor work. COUNTRY inguenuity at it's finest,hehe T.C.
    Tower trumps everything.

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  • Rescue101
    replied
    Ah Hah genius,our QUINT has NO such problem. AND NO pesky pin to worry about on the waterway. AND DOES NOT require a FF in the Bucket to make the Ladder monitor work. COUNTRY inguenuity at it's finest,hehe T.C.

    Leave a comment:


  • RFDACM02
    replied
    Originally posted by Squirt1262 View Post
    Another aspect to consider is doing basic truck work. Rescue mode is necessary to placing FFs on the roof for ventilation, taking handlines through a window, etc. All of which are time dependent.

    Unless you are using the ladder pipe for an offensive "Blitz Attack" you have the extra time to repositin the pin
    One could conclude that if this whole issue is in fact an issue at all, you really have a staffing issue. To set up an aerial and make the connections to supply it takes a little time. Surely enough time for one FFer to make the switch from rescue to tip mode. If you have a quint and can't find the personnel to make the switch, you're due for an "Ah Ha Moment!"

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  • Squirt1262
    replied
    Another aspect to consider is doing basic truck work. Rescue mode is necessary to placing FFs on the roof for ventilation, taking handlines through a window, etc. All of which are time dependent.

    Unless you are using the ladder pipe for an offensive "Blitz Attack" you have the extra time to repositin the pin

    Leave a comment:


  • RFDACM02
    replied
    Originally posted by mcwops View Post
    Actually I meant the opposite, what trouble is caused by operating the nozzle while NOT being pinned to full extension, such as in the picture posted earlier in the thread?

    As I said, probably a dumb question, but curious mind would like to know.
    In the rescue mode the master stream is positioned on an aerial section below the outermost fly, losing some of the height from which you can deliver the water. depending on your position, the fire and the building, this may be a disadvantage. The chances of this being a critical factor in the time frame it takes to change it are far less than the reverse, where you need to make an immediate rescue. Truth be known, far fewer of us have been or ever will be faced with the immediate rescue compared to the defensive operations. This means, sadly we may have "buck fever" and fail to remember to adjust the position. As TC said, the tower bucket provides the best of both worlds, and more!

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  • VanIsleEVT
    replied
    For the most part nothing. Our 110' E-One ladder has the monitor positioned permanently at the end of the second fly section. Been that way for 25 years.

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  • mcwops
    replied
    Originally posted by npfd801 View Post
    The big deal is the nozzle and waterway usually impedes close in work to a window sill, etc. if locked in at full extension. Most newer ladder tip loads are still 500 pounds (or greater) at all elevations, full extension, and at 90 degrees to the aerial.
    Actually I meant the opposite, what trouble is caused by operating the nozzle while NOT being pinned to full extension, such as in the picture posted earlier in the thread?

    As I said, probably a dumb question, but curious mind would like to know.

    Leave a comment:

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