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Pinned Aerial Waterways

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  • #16
    Dumb question from a guy who has not operated a fire aerial, what harm does it do to operate the waterway from the rescue position other than shortening the height?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by mcwops View Post
      Dumb question from a guy who has not operated a fire aerial, what harm does it do to operate the waterway from the rescue position other than shortening the height?
      The big deal is the nozzle and waterway usually impedes close in work to a window sill, etc. if locked in at full extension. Most newer ladder tip loads are still 500 pounds (or greater) at all elevations, full extension, and at 90 degrees to the aerial.
      "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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      • #18
        Originally posted by npfd801 View Post
        The big deal is the nozzle and waterway usually impedes close in work to a window sill, etc. if locked in at full extension. Most newer ladder tip loads are still 500 pounds (or greater) at all elevations, full extension, and at 90 degrees to the aerial.
        Actually I meant the opposite, what trouble is caused by operating the nozzle while NOT being pinned to full extension, such as in the picture posted earlier in the thread?

        As I said, probably a dumb question, but curious mind would like to know.

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        • #19
          For the most part nothing. Our 110' E-One ladder has the monitor positioned permanently at the end of the second fly section. Been that way for 25 years.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by mcwops View Post
            Actually I meant the opposite, what trouble is caused by operating the nozzle while NOT being pinned to full extension, such as in the picture posted earlier in the thread?

            As I said, probably a dumb question, but curious mind would like to know.
            In the rescue mode the master stream is positioned on an aerial section below the outermost fly, losing some of the height from which you can deliver the water. depending on your position, the fire and the building, this may be a disadvantage. The chances of this being a critical factor in the time frame it takes to change it are far less than the reverse, where you need to make an immediate rescue. Truth be known, far fewer of us have been or ever will be faced with the immediate rescue compared to the defensive operations. This means, sadly we may have "buck fever" and fail to remember to adjust the position. As TC said, the tower bucket provides the best of both worlds, and more!

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            • #21
              Another aspect to consider is doing basic truck work. Rescue mode is necessary to placing FFs on the roof for ventilation, taking handlines through a window, etc. All of which are time dependent.

              Unless you are using the ladder pipe for an offensive "Blitz Attack" you have the extra time to repositin the pin

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Squirt1262 View Post
                Another aspect to consider is doing basic truck work. Rescue mode is necessary to placing FFs on the roof for ventilation, taking handlines through a window, etc. All of which are time dependent.

                Unless you are using the ladder pipe for an offensive "Blitz Attack" you have the extra time to repositin the pin
                One could conclude that if this whole issue is in fact an issue at all, you really have a staffing issue. To set up an aerial and make the connections to supply it takes a little time. Surely enough time for one FFer to make the switch from rescue to tip mode. If you have a quint and can't find the personnel to make the switch, you're due for an "Ah Ha Moment!"

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                • #23
                  Ah Hah genius,our QUINT has NO such problem. AND NO pesky pin to worry about on the waterway. AND DOES NOT require a FF in the Bucket to make the Ladder monitor work. COUNTRY inguenuity at it's finest,hehe T.C.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
                    Ah Hah genius,our QUINT has NO such problem. AND NO pesky pin to worry about on the waterway. AND DOES NOT require a FF in the Bucket to make the Ladder monitor work. COUNTRY inguenuity at it's finest,hehe T.C.
                    Tower trumps everything.

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                    • #25
                      Due to the few times that we have used the ladder pipe in the past, we keep it in the rescue position. If its Big Fire needing big water, change it over before you start flying
                      It takes a little intelligence to enjoy humor,satire & wit, but none to be offended by it.

                      It take more than a new Leather Helmet to make you a good officer

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                      • #26
                        Tower trumps everything.
                        You mean a Metz right. No waterway to worry about crushing and extreme speed for rescue. And with that extreme speed you get target control ( optional ) and smoothness like no other.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by VanIsleEVT View Post
                          You mean a Metz right. No waterway to worry about crushing and extreme speed for rescue. And with that extreme speed you get target control ( optional ) and smoothness like no other.
                          Hmmn.........Did you ALSO take time to note there is NO "pinned" waterway on a Metz?
                          And the fact that you CAN get a full waterway if you so desire? AND not lose any of the other features by doing so? T.C.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
                            Hmmn.........Did you ALSO take time to note there is NO "pinned" waterway on a Metz?
                            Originally posted by VanIsleEVT View Post
                            You mean a Metz right. No waterway to worry about crushing and extreme speed for rescue. And with that extreme speed you get target control ( optional ) and smoothness like no other.
                            Pinned shopping cart and a waterway that impedes climbing? No thanks.

                            I'll bet you see a few more American aerials with waterways that won't crush on parapets in the upcoming year. My understanding is that FDNY will not accept a tower ladder with a waterway on the underside.

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                            • #29
                              Pinned shopping cart and a waterway that impedes climbing? No thanks.

                              I'll bet you see a few more American aerials with waterways that won't crush on parapets in the upcoming year. My understanding is that FDNY will not accept a tower ladder with a waterway on the underside.
                              Why take the stairs when you take the elevator.

                              Maybe FDNY will be ordering Sutphens then, they've always done it that way.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by RFDACM02 View Post
                                Pinned shopping cart and a waterway that impedes climbing? No thanks.

                                I'll bet you see a few more American aerials with waterways that won't crush on parapets in the upcoming year. My understanding is that FDNY will not accept a tower ladder with a waterway on the underside.
                                You keep talking about a "impeded climbing area" as if you spent time WORKING off a Metz,which I KNOW you haven't. I HAVE and there are NO issues climbing with the waterway in place. And my feet aren't all that small.There ARE places (MANY) where a smaller aerial fits the Bill. I'd a WHOLE lot rather have a Metz than ANY currently produced '75 footer which is the ONLY thing American comparable in size.. T.C.

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