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  • Raise the requirements?

    How in my department, we've recently adopted a 7 week rule (from our neighbor E80) and even though you get to ride the apparatus' on your 4th week; you still have no experience or knowledge. How can I raise the awareness to my officers, we need to have a certain amount of training hours (such as a quick live burn, tool knowledge/location) training before allowing said volunteers to ride on the trucks?
    LaFire, since you are in Bossier Parish, do you know if E80 has a program in place?
    Benton Fire District Four
    Ladder One
    First Due!


    Caddo Parish Fire District 1
    Career Firefighter/Paramedic


    When things get rough, just say:
    Acabo de perder cinco minutos de su vida.

  • #2
    Originally posted by FIREguy2011 View Post
    How in my department, we've recently adopted a 7 week rule (from our neighbor E80) and even though you get to ride the apparatus' on your 4th week; you still have no experience or knowledge. How can I raise the awareness to my officers, we need to have a certain amount of training hours (such as a quick live burn, tool knowledge/location) training before allowing said volunteers to ride on the trucks?
    LaFire, since you are in Bossier Parish, do you know if E80 has a program in place?
    Given that I am on E80 ... yes.

    Our perspective members observe training for 4 weeks. At week 5 they are issued a pager and vest and are allowed to respond simply as observers to any non-EMS call with the exception of MVAs. At this point they can also hang out at the station and ride on the apparatus as observers. Generally they will be told by the officer to remain at the truck and simply watch.

    At week 7, if there are no issues with either thier interaction over the past 7 weeks or the background check, they are issued PPE and begin the formal training process, which consists of a 4-page checklist of skills as basic as tool identification to SCBA bottle time and burn building time.

    In general it takes a probationary member 5-7 months to complete the checklist.

    Judging from the "neighbor E80" I can assume that you are from a district pretty close at hand.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    • #3
      It's like watching a Parrot look at itself in the mirror!
      Stay Safe
      Bull


      “Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
      - Capt. Marc Cox CFD

      Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.
      -WINSTON CHURCHILL

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      • #4
        In my previous department, new members had to complete a 60-hour basic class before being able to ride the truck. The class ran about 3 months meeting one night per week (as well as an optional day session for those working nights) with 1-2 all-day Saturday practical days. They were also required to attend weekly evening (or day) training during this period as well.

        It was a joint venture with ourselves and 3 other neighboring departments utilizing instructors from all 4 agencies.

        After the class was completed, there would generally be 2-3 in-house sessions run by each department to review their specific operating guidelines.

        The class was generally offered 3 times a year, so there was a minimum of time between each, however, it wouldn't be uncommon for somebody to have to wait a couple of months before a new class started. They were issued training gear and required to attend weekly training and were allowed to participate to a limited extent (non-direct firefighting tasks) while waiting for a new class to begin. If their weekly training dropped below a pre-set minimum during the waiting period, it's possible that they would not be allowed to take the next class, and may be asked to wait until the next one down the line.

        So basically it would take about 6 months for a new member to be able to respond to incidents. There were occasions where we did lose some potentially good members during the wait, and there were occasions where we lost marginal candidates.

        IMO, that is too long of a wait. While I feel the class was an excellent training tool, I supported allowing folks in the class to be able to begin responding about 1/2 way through the class, as long as their performance tat that point was satisfactory. It would have given them some real-world experience to go along with the classroom and practical training. There was talk about modifying the program along those lines several times, but unfortunately, it never went anywhere.

        The class is still in use today as a method of training new members for those 4 departments.

        On the other side, i feel our process is a little too short, but I would not extend it by very much. I have been trying to implement a formal shorter intro class (probably in the area of 20 hours), while they also attend weekly training before new members could respond. There have been some legtimate concerns brought up by officers who understand how this area works, but the topic is still on the table and may be implemented, possibly in a modified format, in the future.

        As of right now, we are still using the current system as by and large, it works.
        Last edited by LaFireEducator; 12-10-2010, 11:03 AM.
        Train to fight the fires you fight.

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        • #5
          Question............

          LA - And anyone else who may want to chime in - How do you handle a New Applicant who brings Verifiable Training from elsewhere??......... For Instance, if I showed up at your station one day and said that I had moved to the area and had prior experience, and I'd like to join....... Then What?
          Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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          Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

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          • #6
            Originally posted by hwoods View Post
            LA - And anyone else who may want to chime in - How do you handle a New Applicant who brings Verifiable Training from elsewhere??......... For Instance, if I showed up at your station one day and said that I had moved to the area and had prior experience, and I'd like to join....... Then What?
            For us, it's a case by case basis depending on training. The most likely scenario, with say a FFI certification in hand would be that you would be allowed to run calls as an active participant, but you would still have to demonstrate the skills on the checklist over time.

            We would call your previous department and find out a little more about your experience as well, but we wouldn't keep you from being actively involved in operations nearly as long as a newbie especially if you demonstrated competency, either in training or on runs, early on.

            If you had experience, but no certifications, things would probably move a little slower than if you had certs, but once again, if you demonstrated your skill/knowledge level early on, we would expect the process to move along a little quicker than usual.
            Train to fight the fires you fight.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by BULL321 View Post
              It's like watching a Parrot look at itself in the mirror!
              no its not like that , cause you have the duties , which is different from other people the duty of saving lives which is in itself a hard work . so always be prepared and well prepared can be the answer to this post not this . mind it dude .

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Hecter View Post
                no its not like that , cause you have the duties , which is different from other people the duty of saving lives which is in itself a hard work . so always be prepared and well prepared can be the answer to this post not this . mind it dude .
                WTF? That makes my head hurt. I laughed when I saw " you have the duties." Is that like poopy pants?
                FF/Paramedic

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                • #9
                  as far as calls go my first time getting to respond I was in the back of a grass rig thrown up against 40 ft seeder trees and the only training I had at the time was a drives training a week after I started.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by larsen2430 View Post
                    as far as calls go my first time getting to respond I was in the back of a grass rig thrown up against 40 ft seeder trees and the only training I had at the time was a drives training a week after I started.
                    Whaaaaaa?? This is the most confusing thread I have ever read.
                    -Rob
                    Greater love has no man than to lay his life down for a friend.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rpferry View Post
                      Whaaaaaa?? This is the most confusing thread I have ever read.
                      -Rob
                      What I mean is I was on my department for less then a month had my pager about five days and I was called to a grass fire with the only training ever had was a driver course and i was placed on the back or the grass rig with and put up against forty foot seeder trees fully engulfed.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by larsen2430 View Post
                        What I mean is I was on my department for less then a month had my pager about five days and I was called to a grass fire with the only training ever had was a driver course and i was placed on the back or the grass rig with and put up against forty foot seeder trees fully engulfed.
                        Ahhh, ok. That kind of clears it up. Thanks man.
                        -Rob
                        Greater love has no man than to lay his life down for a friend.

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                        • #13
                          seeder trees ? 40 ft - they must grow them big if your seedlings are 40 ft. Oh --- you mean cedar trees - I hope you put the wet stuff on the red stuff. But seriouisly - if you were uncomfortable - why didny you speak up ?
                          ?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
                            seeder trees ? 40 ft - they must grow them big if your seedlings are 40 ft. Oh --- you mean cedar trees - I hope you put the wet stuff on the red stuff. But seriouisly - if you were uncomfortable - why didny you speak up ?
                            I am not a country person but right now I live in a country area Sorry on the misspell I didn't even know what kind of trees they were until I was told later and I wasn't uncomfortable the flames didn't bug me. I am just pointing out that it doesn't take 6 months to learn how to do grass fires to me real life hands on is the best way to train you can put someone in a smoke house and tell them how dangerous all you want but if they don't get to try it then their first fire they could leave on you and all that time and money was wasted. My chief lets all people do their job but you can not walk into a burning building unless you have FF1.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by larsen2430 View Post
                              What I mean is I was on my department for less then a month had my pager about five days and I was called to a grass fire with the only training ever had was a driver course and i was placed on the back or the grass rig with and put up against forty foot seeder trees fully engulfed.
                              Some trees, such as lodgepole pines and sequoias need fire to open up their seed pods.. I guess those are "seeder trees"...
                              ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                              Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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