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  • #31
    You can't push a rope.

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    • #32
      Plant seeds

      No, you can't push a rope, nor make someone want to learn if the need is not there. Each person learns at different rates, in different ways. Some need to be lead, others pushed, and yet others can't get enough learning. The latter is due to an inherent need to learn more, these types of people I call sponges. The way to handle the others perceived to be lazy, lax, or ignorant to requirement or need, must have tidbits or seeds of information planted for them to grasp on to and grow. Without the desire, no one grows in knowledge. A way must be found to indicate to best handle this person and plant your seed. Then water, fertilize, and tend with great care. Watch this person grow and bloom into the appropriate niche filling person you want him or her to be.

      Be safe and grow old!

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      • #33
        Yes you can push a rope. It requires special treatments and handling just like the individual in question. You have to decide - is it worth the required effort?

        We have a firefighter that has trouble taking tests. He admits to not working very hard in school and just got by. He just needs a little help with written tests. If we gave up on him he would have quit, or worse, been a liability to the department. Now we have a good firefighter. He may not be chief material but very few of us are.

        Brad

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        • #34
          Trouble member

          I have a trouble member in my dept too. He came from another dept and constantly tells everyone how much experience he has. Problem is, he doesn't show any of it. He hardly ever shows up and when he does, he causes problems. I always hear " well back at .....dept, we do it this way" You can't imagine how much I hate hearing that. I won't let him drive because he cant! Everytime he does show up for a run, he tries to jump in the drivers seat and when someone tells him to get out because I dont want him driving, he gets peeved and leaves. I have even recently heard that he was trash talking me in a dept store to another member saying he wasnt going to listen or do anything I told him and that the only reason things are done my way is because I say so. Duh, Im the chief! He keeps telling everyone he is going to tell me off but he has yet to prove it.
          J.J. Bichard, Chief
          Devola Vol. Fire Co.
          Marietta, Ohio

          "A few, serving many"

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          • #35
            I am certainly an advocate of taking people who are having trouble under your wing and helping them do their job better.

            I certainly acknowledge that there are jobs to be done which don't involve being an "interior firefighter" - in support roles both on and off the fireground.

            It is certainly true that you don't always need to agree with - or even like - the people you work with on the fireground to do a good job and come home in one piece.

            And I understand that most departments - especially volunteer - need all the help they can get.

            But at the same time, some people prove to be more trouble than they're worth...and if you're not prepared to make that determination and jettison these folks when the time comes, they can poison your whole organization.

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            • #36
              Sounds like Mr well back at my old dept. needs to have a heart to heart with his officers. Make sure there are at least two of his officers so he dose not twist things later to others and Document this Counsling, he will need a clear understanding of driver checkoffs,a clear understanding of the chain of command, he needs to understand that this is a team sport and each team plays a little bit differently,and he also needs to understand that if he has a problem with his Chief that this is not third grade he needs to bring it to him not spread rummers on the play ground
              Good luck with this one Chief

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              • #37
                Originally posted by pletch View Post
                Just a qustion for the body. Our department has a member that is useless, he has failed FF 1&2 Twice now, Failed Hazmat OPS, Actually didn't show up and took him three round to pass MFR. Today, he decided to jump on the first enging out, when i have been trained and been in the service for over five years now i told him to get down from the truck but he ignored me and continued anyways. I want to seriously knock him out, but i know that will create problems. How should i handle this or just blow it off.
                Personally I only see one problem with this, he didnt let a certified firefighter on the truck. Other then that its not a huge deal. As everyone knows there is always other support functins needed on a fire scene, its not all about the interior guys

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                • #38
                  in your first post you stated he failed FF 1 & 2... i'm pretty sure you need 1 to take 2... how the heck could he have failed 2 if he hasnt passed 1 yet?

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                  • #39
                    Uh Huh...........

                    Originally posted by Steamin441 View Post
                    We have a guy that has been on for two years. Has 1152 thru pump ops 1. Then stopped training. Has made a grand total of ten calls maybe. Only really shows up for meal/business nights and training nights. Oh, and the Christmas dinner. Always complains if someone asks to many questions prolonging class,meetings,ect. Overheard saying certain ff's need to "get a life" apparently because they like to come down to the station and hang out.( I felt like saying, "you should mention that at the next meeting so everybody can hear it".) Let me clarify, this "member" was brought on without a vote along with a few others when a new station was opened in a neighboring district we had contracted to protect. Which in my mind would call for a little extra dues paying just out of respect for the normal process of being voted on by membership. Normally I have found these situations work themselves out. Not in this case. The bottom line for me is there wiil be a call when this guy wiil be in a position to have to make entry or extricate a patient with someone qualified,(which I don't consider him to be), and that ff he is teamed with is now taking unknown risk added to a routine situation. Good luck at that point. The icing is this guy had a volunteer license tag almost from day one. So in my Holier than thou interpretation he is in it for bragging rights. Any suggestions on this one?
                    No. At least none that can be posted here. Problem with this type is that they are absolutely unable to "Take a hint" about cleaning up their act. They will go on and on until they get tired of the VFD and move on to the Lions Club, Rotary, or some other group that will gain as much from them as your VFD has. I read Dawg's comments closely, and I agree with almost all of his conclusions, AND, at the same time, I think Pletch has a vaild problem, or more correctly, Her Department has a problem. The Senior Officers need to sort this out, and make it work. And, one point, things vary from place to place. Here, as a member with 5 years on, and proper training, She would be expected to take the place of someone with less time and training, and the Officers would back her 100%. If you have a learning disability, we'll do anything to help you get your training done, without "skipping over" anything in the course work. If you have an Attitude disability, I'll fix that as well.
                    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
                    In memory of
                    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
                    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

                    IACOJ Budget Analyst

                    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

                    www.gdvfd18.com

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                    • #40
                      I must take some offense at Haweater's comment about Volunteer departments having minimal training and you need to get it on your own. It doesn''t work that way in my department. Here you must complete FF I within the first year to remain a member. We offer the course once a year as well as training meetings twice a month, where many sessions are hands on type training. You also must be qualified to enter a structure fire if you want on the first out engine, unless there is no one else available. This is stressed through the leadership. There have been times when a less qualified firefighter has been ordered to the second truck by an officer. Our first out in the city has three seats with airpaks. Sometimes a non-quailified firefighter may sit in the middle of the front, there are seatbelts for a thrid person in the cab. The leadership stresses this to those who are not qualified to make entry that that middle seat is their position on the truck. In my opinion this individual should not be taking a seat with an airpak on the first out truck if he is not qualified, unless available manning dictates the need for him riding that position. From what was said he is not making the effort to improve himself and this can be a danger to those we protect and our fellow firefighters. If he gets kicked off the truck by an officer enough times then maybe he will get the message. Being a firefighter you may not have the authority to kick him off but you sure can ride him during training and on calls if need be. And by riding him I mean pushing him to improve and to get the training. Even if you are not an officer you can also be a leader and talk to him, see if there are reasons for not passing. Offer help, if he accepts then he may be worth keeping. Several firefighters have had study sessions at the station on non-class nights to help each other. We also have officers that are willing to come to the station for those study sessions to help them out also.
                      Last edited by LtTim556; 03-17-2007, 01:56 AM.
                      Vintage Firefighter: The older I get, the braver I was.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Fitguy51 View Post
                        Besides there is always one job that no likes to do at the scene, cause there in no glory in it, and that is catching the hydrant.

                        Sorry don't mean to hijack, but that amused me!

                        So many people don't seem to realize that sometimes the most menial task is just as important as being on the nozzle. Folks that grumble when they get told to grab the hydrant, or shuttle tools etc leave me so irritated.

                        I personally feel that if your officer trusts you enough to drop you off away from the actual fire, leave you to do a job unsupervised, and TRUST you to make sure those guys who are making that initial attack have more water on the way in the fastest time possible is something to do with pride. Your crew running out of water inside a working fire is a scary thought.

                        If I get assigned to hit the hydrant, it's a matter of pride for me personally to have it hooked up and radioing to my officer that it's ready to go, so all they have to do is say open the hydrant. Any time I've been stuck at the hydrant my goal has always been to be waiting on them, not them waiting on me for water.

                        Just my own personal rant that no matter how menial the job is, each task or assignment has a purpose on the fireground. Some guys only want the smashing glass and kicking ***, and for the lack of training etc, don't understand that we're all codependent on one another in one way or other.

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                        • #42
                          Anyone who takes the time to help his community...

                          as a firefighter is an asset,IMHO. Sounds like if that man went thru those classes (even though he failed) had no lack of trying. Why would he struggle thru these classes twice? Sounds like he needs some mentoring and direction, And I agree its a brotherhood. BTW, How nice is it when coming out of a structure fire having those ladies ready with water and ham sandwiches, Not very high ego job But sure do apppreciate them.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by xcable View Post
                            BTW, How nice is it when coming out of a structure fire having those ladies ready with water and ham sandwiches, Not very high ego job But sure do apppreciate them.
                            When we come out of a fire, we go directly to rehab and there is no ham sandwiches in rehab.

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                            • #44
                              Rehab?????????

                              Originally posted by dday05 View Post
                              When we come out of a fire, we go directly to rehab and there is no ham sandwiches in rehab.
                              You got me bud, Could you expand on rehab?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by xcable View Post
                                You got me bud, Could you expand on rehab?
                                I will give you a brief description of our rehab process. Lets say we have a structure fire and once you come out you go to rehab, we run a rehab unit that responds to fires, (it doesn't respond to little fires or what we call bs fires) it can even be used for large scale brush fires etc... What we do is you come out drop your pack and coat rehab ems takes vitals, and gives you water, your usual trip to rehab is about 10 minutes,once you've been there for 10 mins vitals are taken again and and if everything is ok your released, everything is documented and your times are logged in and out. In the spring and summer we run misting fans of which allow the ff's to cool down and in winter we run heaters. We run a staging area of which we have a tent/canopy set up for the people to drop their gear (which is protected in rainy or nasty weather) Anyways this is a brief description. If you're serious about this I can send you our protocal on rehab. I will say we implemented our unit a few years ago and I personally wasn't a big fan of it thinking it was a waist of time and bs but to be honest it works and works very well.Leave your email or set up to private message and contact me.. Hope this helps.

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