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  • #16
    I almost forgot.....

    I am in the process of trying to pass R&R's through our membership to require each member who wants training other than 36 hr FF or EMT-B to submit a letter of intent to me before taking any class. I have to approve it then take it to the Finance Committee for further approval and then they must serve with the dept for one year before they can advance to the next level of training, ie. EMT-B, EMT-I, EMT-P. Same for firefighting, 36 hr, 120 hr, 240 hr class.
    J.J. Bichard, Chief
    Devola Vol. Fire Co.
    Marietta, Ohio

    "A few, serving many"

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    • #17
      Just out of curiousity...

      Originally posted by doublej986 View Post
      I am in the process of trying to pass R&R's through our membership to require each member who wants training other than 36 hr FF or EMT-B to submit a letter of intent to me before taking any class. I have to approve it then take it to the Finance Committee for further approval and then they must serve with the dept for one year before they can advance to the next level of training, ie. EMT-B, EMT-I, EMT-P. Same for firefighting, 36 hr, 120 hr, 240 hr class.
      ...what is a 36 hr? I am guessing that the 120 hr and 240 hr roughly correspond to what here we call FF1 and FF2, though our FF1 is 196 hours and our FF2 is 184 hrs. But what do you cover in 36 hr? Is it like an orientation type of thing?

      Anyway, while it sucks that you have had the problems you have had, it still sounds to me like part of the problem is with your recruitment process, and you are letting on too many people who are joining for the wrong reasons.

      One thing you might consider is having people do the EMT and medic stuff through local colleges rather than the academy. Because they would then be in a standard semester, getting an EMT-B will take a year, so you will have them as a FR for nearly that long. And someone going for a medic, you would have as an EMT-I for at least 3-4 semesters before they finished their coursework.

      I'd rather pay for a guy I immediately lose than put in place a policy that might cause 3 guys not to go to training.

      Comment


      • #18
        Training budgets don't grow on trees...

        Originally posted by randsc View Post
        Anyway, while it sucks that you have had the problems you have had, it still sounds to me like part of the problem is with your recruitment process, and you are letting on too many people who are joining for the wrong reasons.
        There are a dozen motivations for some one to volunteer. With volunteerism in the fire service falling, some times you have to take the good motivations with the bad and let strong officers push them in the right direction.

        Originally posted by randsc View Post
        One thing you might consider is having people do the EMT and medic stuff through local colleges rather than the academy. Because they would then be in a standard semester, getting an EMT-B will take a year, so you will have them as a FR for nearly that long. And someone going for a medic, you would have as an EMT-I for at least 3-4 semesters before they finished their coursework.
        Here most of the time, if you don't belong to a FF/EMS organization, the only place you can get FFI, FF2, EMT, EMT-P is at the Community Colleges and it isn't cheap. We can get the training cheaper using fire agencies.

        Originally posted by randsc View Post
        I'd rather pay for a guy I immediately lose than put in place a policy that might cause 3 guys not to go to training.
        With a limited training budget there isn't anything wrong with putting a few stipulations for training to be paid for. If those same 3 guys don't want to go to training because they have to meet a basic criteria, I don't want to pay their way, it makes me think their bad motivations are out weighing the good.
        We're not spliting rocket hairs here people!

        Training is like building a pyramid, if you want it to last, you don't built it pointy side down!

        Comment


        • #19
          In the departments I belong to in Pa and LA - all fire fighting training is covered by the departments if not free from the state... First responder class (40 hours) paid by some departments. EMT - B must be paid by the individual seeking that and maybe reimbursed by the department I belong to in Louisiana but only after certain number of calls have been run and certain amount of time with the department and if they past the test..

          Contracts in a volunteer department is almost worthless unless you plan to follow through with them in court procedings and the contract should also state - if you break the contract you need to pay for the training and will also have to pay for court and attorney's fee for breaking the contract to recover the cost....

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by LouisianaMedic View Post
            In the departments I belong to in Pa and LA - all fire fighting training is covered by the departments if not free from the state... First responder class (40 hours) paid by some departments. EMT - B must be paid by the individual seeking that and maybe reimbursed by the department I belong to in Louisiana but only after certain number of calls have been run and certain amount of time with the department and if they past the test..

            Contracts in a volunteer department is almost worthless unless you plan to follow through with them in court procedings and the contract should also state - if you break the contract you need to pay for the training and will also have to pay for court and attorney's fee for breaking the contract to recover the cost....

            Medic, I like the idea of making them pay for the court costs too. I might have to write up an R&R on that.
            J.J. Bichard, Chief
            Devola Vol. Fire Co.
            Marietta, Ohio

            "A few, serving many"

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by randsc View Post
              ...what is a 36 hr? I am guessing that the 120 hr and 240 hr roughly correspond to what here we call FF1 and FF2, though our FF1 is 196 hours and our FF2 is 184 hrs. But what do you cover in 36 hr? Is it like an orientation type of thing?

              Anyway, while it sucks that you have had the problems you have had, it still sounds to me like part of the problem is with your recruitment process, and you are letting on too many people who are joining for the wrong reasons.

              One thing you might consider is having people do the EMT and medic stuff through local colleges rather than the academy. Because they would then be in a standard semester, getting an EMT-B will take a year, so you will have them as a FR for nearly that long. And someone going for a medic, you would have as an EMT-I for at least 3-4 semesters before they finished their coursework.

              I'd rather pay for a guy I immediately lose than put in place a policy that might cause 3 guys not to go to training.
              A 36 hour FF course covers the basics. Just enough to be allowed to enter a fire under State of Ohio Regs.
              J.J. Bichard, Chief
              Devola Vol. Fire Co.
              Marietta, Ohio

              "A few, serving many"

              Comment


              • #22
                as RFRD posted earlier .............any additional training FF1 FF2 and Medic can be covered by grants, or if monies are available via line item budget then people are sent and they sign a contract. IIRC it is for 1 year upon completion of said class. If they go before that they are responsible for payback. Luckily this hasnt happend in a while but we have had a past problem, which is why we went to the contract deal.
                IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
                Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
                ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
                RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
                LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
                I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
                "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
                http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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                • #23
                  Heh Heh....
                  Me thinks Rand missed my point totally... Oh well...
                  Giggity - Giggity!

                  Comment

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