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  • #46
    Originally posted by DrParasite
    Do the career firefighters have to pay for their own badges? if they don't have to, why should the volunteers?

    Also, why do the career firefighters need badges? after all, if the volunteers don't need them, then wouldn't logic dictate that the career staff have no need for them either?
    That's terrible logic. Obviously career firefighters wear uniforms at work, therefore they require badges. Volunteers aren't ever required to wear uniforms. The only time volunteers typically wear uniforms are for parades, funerals, and maybe one or two other details. These events are optional for most volunteers. So you're comparing apples to oranges when discussing badge needs for career and volunteer firefighters.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by ironmint
      That's terrible logic. Obviously career firefighters wear uniforms at work, therefore they require badges. Volunteers aren't ever required to wear uniforms. The only time volunteers typically wear uniforms are for parades, funerals, and maybe one or two other details. These events are optional for most volunteers. So you're comparing apples to oranges when discussing badge needs for career and volunteer firefighters.

      We did away with badges on our work uniforms (career) and went for embroidery.

      We have badges for our Class A uniforms and so do our volunteers
      Buckle Up, Slow Down, Arrive Alive
      "Everybody Goes Home"

      IACOJ 2003

      Comment


      • #48
        Don't blame the volunteers. Blame all of the companies all too willing to sell a wide array of whacker chic!
        Now, before some of you jump on me for that statement, let me qualify it by saying: if it's a badge that identifies your department and it was provided by the fire department, then I think that's great.
        But, if the badge says "volunteer" on it and was purchased by the firefighter, then that is whacker chic. Add to that all of the other "volunteer" tagged items and companies like G****; whoops, I almost said it, make a fortune off of the newbies who are so proud that they finally got to join a volunteer department, that they max out the credit card buying the stuff.
        I still have a jacket that I bought that has reflective "fire/rescue" on the back, down the arms and on the left breast area. Fire department at the time didn't even have work shirts or nothing.
        Anyway; I like the idea of embroidered badges or other insignias that identify you as a firefighter.
        As I have previously said in other threads; I have always had a personal problem with wearing a Class A uniform as a volunteer. I always thought that the uniform belonged to the career firefighters. I can wear a nice suit to a fire department function. I will wear a lapel pin that signifies fire service and just leave it at that. I know many volunteer departments lay out the entire Class A attire and that's good for you. But I am going on 25 years and still going and still have no desire to "suit up".
        Badges are an unnecessary expense and so are Class A's. For volunteers.
        It's how you feel inwardly and not how you dress outwardly that's going to make the difference in what you do as a firefighter.
        IMHO.
        CR
        Visit www.iacoj.com
        Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
        RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

        Comment


        • #49
          Whenever I appear on behalf of my department teaching Fire Prevention or other PR functions, I am required to wear my dress uniform. I don't have a badge, I have departmental ID. I don't particularly feel the need for a badge; I cannot forsee a situation where it would benefit anyone. I see badges as being somewhat cumbersome but never having had one; what do I know?
          I am a volunteer and there is nothing in the SOG's that address the issue from either standpoint.
          My uniform shirt has the departmental patch on both sleeves and this year, I was surprised with the news that it was decided to customize my epaulettes with Fire Prevention. I didn't particularly feel the need for that, either, but you wear what you are given. End of story.
          IACOJ
          If you are willing to teach;
          I am willing to learn.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by SPFDRum
            As a career guy, we got a badge for our class b, I just hope I can find it before we change to winter uniform shirt.

            Yeah really me too ! We don't even have Class B Uniforms. - T-shirts in the warm months and Sweat Shirts in the Cold Months. Shorts are optional in summer. I have a badge though...Not quite sure why. Looks kinda' goofy pinned to the T-Shirt.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by ChiefReason
              Don't blame the volunteers. Blame all of the companies all too willing to sell a wide array of whacker chic!
              Now, before some of you jump on me for that statement, let me qualify it by saying: if it's a badge that identifies your department and it was provided by the fire department, then I think that's great.
              But, if the badge says "volunteer" on it and was purchased by the firefighter, then that is whacker chic. Add to that all of the other "volunteer" tagged items and companies like G****; whoops, I almost said it, make a fortune off of the newbies who are so proud that they finally got to join a volunteer department, that they max out the credit card buying the stuff.
              I still have a jacket that I bought that has reflective "fire/rescue" on the back, down the arms and on the left breast area. Fire department at the time didn't even have work shirts or nothing.
              Anyway; I like the idea of embroidered badges or other insignias that identify you as a firefighter.
              As I have previously said in other threads; I have always had a personal problem with wearing a Class A uniform as a volunteer. I always thought that the uniform belonged to the career firefighters. I can wear a nice suit to a fire department function. I will wear a lapel pin that signifies fire service and just leave it at that. I know many volunteer departments lay out the entire Class A attire and that's good for you. But I am going on 25 years and still going and still have no desire to "suit up".
              Badges are an unnecessary expense and so are Class A's. For volunteers.
              It's how you feel inwardly and not how you dress outwardly that's going to make the difference in what you do as a firefighter.
              IMHO.
              CR
              Just remember brother that the history of the fire service is one of volunteers and the vast MAJORITY of our great fire service are and always will be volunteers ! If you want the check - great - I love being a firefighter and don't need or want the money - but we are all in this together. Not sure why you make a demarcation between paid and volunteers in regrds to uniforms - I have seen both paid guys and volunteers that look like bums - and both that looked extremely professional.
              Last edited by FirstDueCTVol; 09-11-2006, 02:43 AM.

              Comment


              • #52
                FirstDue;
                I have never known ChiefReason to belittle volunteers; I think the demarcation for response was because volunteers are often looking for and buying their own fire items. They may or may not have any SOG's that guide them in their search and use of items. They may be overwhelmed with choices. I think ChiefReason was pointing out the fact that they may be targets of advertising.

                Career FF's probably have SOG's that cover these issues and career management is responsible for issuing the items that their members are required to have. I wouldn't know for sure; I'm not career. It just seems logical to me that this would be the case.
                IACOJ
                If you are willing to teach;
                I am willing to learn.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by FirstDueCTVol
                  Just remember brother that the history of the fire service is one of volunteers and the vast MAJORITY of our great fire service are and always will be volunteers ! If you want the check - great - I love being a firefighter and don't need or want the money - but we are all in this together. Not sure why you make a demarcation between paid and volunteers in regrds to uniforms - I have seen both paid guys and volunteers that look like bums - and both that looked extremely professional.
                  If you're a volunteer department that can afford badges and Class A's, great.
                  That exactly what I said.
                  There IS a line of demarcation between career and volunteer...on several fronts. There is the obvious one.
                  And like I said, I can look pretty "official" or "professional" in a nice gray suit.
                  And I saved the department about $600.
                  You want to wear Class A? I won't besmirch you. Read what I said.
                  I'm not picking a fight. I stated MY reasons.
                  You disagree? Good for you.
                  I stand by my previous post. I see nothing that is inappropriate.
                  CR
                  Visit www.iacoj.com
                  Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
                  RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    We must be a little redneck here because we get a ball cap and a t-shirt if you buy one.Our dress uniform is a clean t-shirt and ball cap.Most people identify us when we drive up in a fire truck.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by ChiefReason
                      If you're a volunteer department that can afford badges and Class A's, great.
                      That exactly what I said.
                      There IS a line of demarcation between career and volunteer...on several fronts. There is the obvious one.
                      And like I said, I can look pretty "official" or "professional" in a nice gray suit.
                      And I saved the department about $600.
                      You want to wear Class A? I won't besmirch you. Read what I said.
                      I'm not picking a fight. I stated MY reasons.
                      You disagree? Good for you.
                      I stand by my previous post. I see nothing that is inappropriate.
                      CR
                      Chief - maybe I misunderstood your post- I agree on the saving money thing- I just think if you can get everyone in class a for certain things that it is nice.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by ChiefReason
                        As I have previously said in other threads; I have always had a personal problem with wearing a Class A uniform as a volunteer. I always thought that the uniform belonged to the career firefighters. I can wear a nice suit to a fire department function. I will wear a lapel pin that signifies fire service and just leave it at that.
                        and you will probably be the sharpest looking civilian there.
                        Originally posted by ChiefReason
                        I know many volunteer departments lay out the entire Class A attire and that's good for you. But I am going on 25 years and still going and still have no desire to "suit up".
                        Badges are an unnecessary expense and so are Class A's. For volunteers.
                        It's how you feel inwardly and not how you dress outwardly that's going to make the difference in what you do as a firefighter.
                        IMHO.CR
                        Class A's have their uses. at 25, you don't want to suit up, cool, I won't twist your arm.

                        If you want to go to a town meeting in a suit and tie, I won't belittle you.

                        If you want to attend your new members firefighter I graduation in a suit and tie, I have no problem with that.

                        If you want to march in a funeral for one of your own in a suit and tie, that is your choice.

                        however, in each of the above three examples you will be looked up and viewed by the public as a civilian. yes, you may have the title, or even the rank, but you still look like a civilian. if you are going to be a firefighter, and want to give off a professional aura, then you should be in a proper firefighters uniform.

                        A dress uniform (as well as a work uniform) has a place in both the career fire service and in the volunteer fire service. a uniform is one of the easiest ways to differentiate a civilian from a firefighter. and yes, the public can tell the difference.

                        IMHO, of course.
                        If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

                        FF/EMT/DBP

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by ChiefReason
                          As I have previously said in other threads; I have always had a personal problem with wearing a Class A uniform as a volunteer. I always thought that the uniform belonged to the career firefighters. I can wear a nice suit to a fire department function. I will wear a lapel pin that signifies fire service and just leave it at that. I know many volunteer departments lay out the entire Class A attire and that's good for you. But I am going on 25 years and still going and still have no desire to "suit up".
                          Badges are an unnecessary expense and so are Class A's. For volunteers.
                          It's how you feel inwardly and not how you dress outwardly that's going to make the difference in what you do as a firefighter.
                          IMHO.
                          CR
                          You had me until that bit about the Class A's. I agree with you about the whacker junk, and to some degree I think that stuff actually makes you look UNprofessional. But I cannot understand your logic about volunteers not wearing Class A uniforms. "The uniform belonged to the career firefighters"? I don't understand that, the Class A uniform has been worn by the volunteers for CENTURIES, well before any career firefighters were wearing them, or were even in existence for that matter. I'm certainly not arguing your opinion, but I think your logic is a bit flawed. Perhaps we should even take it a step further and say that only the military should wear Class A's?

                          I personally find it disrespectful for a firefighter, volunteer OR career, to not wear their Class A uniforms to a wake/funeral service or memorial service. I consider it a justified expense for the district/company/department. Furthermore, I don't distinguish between a city having to pay for its career firefighter's uniforms and a town having to pay for its volunteer firefighter's uniforms. What's the difference, really? Clearly Class A uniforms are not work related attire, they are for special occasions and circumstances. A firefighter is a firefighter, plain and simple. Believe me, the public at large makes absolutely no distinction between the two. As a matter of fact, it would probably reflect poorly on the volunteers in the public's eye to NOT have and wear Class A uniforms when appropriate. And in the end, isn't it more professionalism we're always striving for?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Believe me, the public at large makes absolutely no distinction between the two.
                            I dunno about that one... I have a set of Class Bs that I wear for station staffing, prevention presentations, and medical standbys. However, unlike the career guys, I am not issued a badge for my Bs...if I want one, I can buy one, at the going rate for replacements for the paid guys (somewhere about $60-ish). As of right now, that's one expense that I just can't justify to myself.

                            However, when out in the public with the paid guys, I often get asked why it is that they have badges and I don't ... when I explain that I'm a volunteer Firefighter, the next question is invariably: "Oh...so when're you going to do it for real?" (yes, you can hear the italics in their speech )

                            I've been in many different organizations over the years...Sea Cadets, Civil Air Patrol, Boy Scouts, the California State Military Reserve... and I recall a statement I heard once at a CAP training that has become a foundation of my mindset with respect to my "volunteer" time and experience:
                            "There are two types of people in organizations like this (at the time referring to CAP--the "volunteer Auxiliary of the US Air Force"): Volunteers, and Unpaid Professionals. The difference lies in that Unpaid Professionals go a step above and beyond, giving that extra bit of effort to be, look, and act professional at all times that they're representing or working for their organization. Now it's time to ask yourself: which are you, and which do you want to be?"

                            I've always strived to be the Unpaid Professional...sure, they won't turn me away for showing up to do prevention education or a standby in a dept T-shirt and clean blue jeans...but I would rather go the extra mile and present the "professional" appearance.

                            From my POV, there's nothing wrong with that. If you want to purchase and wear department-approved Class Bs for station staffing, training, public education, etc, more power to you. If you want to go out and drop several hundred on Class As for parades, funerals, etc, it's your money. As long as you stay within the standards set by your department, and use good taste and judgment, what's the problem?

                            A final thought: nobody needs stinking badges... hit em with some Febreeze, it works miracles for stinkin' badges.
                            My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

                            IACOJ--West Coast PITA

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                            • #59
                              Every time I see some one with one of those wallet badges --- I think of the time we got a call and as the engine arrived at the intersection one of the local whackers was trying to stop traffic for us by holding his badge up.

                              All I could think of was CITIZENS AAARRREEESTTTT
                              ?

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                              • #60
                                Maybe its a new england thing- almost everyone I know up here carries a wallte badge - not just the vollys but most of the paid guys too. Why? I am really not sure - everyone just seems to have em.

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