Volunteer?

[rchiefisitinme]

Where are those that establish the laws we live by when volunteers are needed to live by those laws?

Recently I was conducting training when members of the dept opted to crack open a few beers. I left when the asst. chief ok'd the beer as it was low key... I raised the issue to the chief and he was ok with the issue...I can now go to the town fathers and be an outcast on the dept or get done. Do I have it in me?!

We were in view of the public--kids in fact. We had a live burn (a brush pile) going; we were providing a public service. A line was laid and charged and the pump operator was drinking a beer.

I questioned it, I stated my dis-approval, and when over ruled I left.

Any advise?

[RspctFrmCalgary]

Scary ...

Show them a picture of Anndee Huber

http://forums.firehouse.com/showthre...ghlight=Anndee

Type Anndee in Search (or beer, or alcohol) and you'll find out that the feelings and opinions run high about drinking and the fire service.

It could get ugly

Good luck in overcoming the situation you find yourself in, whatever you decide to do.

[scfire86]

The group you described is NOT the fire service. That is a group of 'good ole boys' posing as firefighters.

Do yourself a favor. Make your case and then find a group of individuals who know what they're doing and who are NOT making a mockery of the fire service.

[cellblock]

I made an issue out of the drinking within our fire department. The Chief and several others didn't like it and voted for my expulsion from the VFD.
Now, 18 months after being kicked out of that dysfunctional firehouse, I still run into people from neighboring departments who ask about the beer in the station's vending machine or the chief and his firefighters responding to calls drunk. The stories are legendary. The department is a laughing stock and the members could not care less.
Stand up for professional standards. Insist the chief and his officers put a stop to the public intoxication. You will either get attitudes changed or you will get the boot. Either way you come out ahead.
Good Luck.
Sincerely,

[BrianB35]

Any alcohol at a fire station is stupid! We're role models, scarey as it is, and we should uphold standardards. In our department if I did what they did I'd be out so fast I'd have skid marks. Also responding to a call. Our chief has made it clear one drink,beer, etc and you stay home!

[TFW1TFW1]

You know, it's crazy that firefighters could even have an opinion about alcohol and emergency response other than that it is completely ridiculous and outright stupid.

All I can say is that alcohol impairs ability. It is true in any person, any state, in any department or company. If rules have not already been made and officers are dumb enough to let it happen, sooner or later IT WILL catch up with them. All we can hope is that no innocent fellow firefighter or citizen is affected in the process.

Any organization that gives you the boot because you are against it, is one that you are better off not being a part of anyway.

Death has an organization of its own. Lots of stupid people are members.

_____________________
MGHjr
www.thefirefighterwithin.com

[Chief2100]

My advice state your opinion if nothing is done get out or maybe leave anyway this is outrageous they should have all been placed in jail because they are criminals not firefighters!!

[SgtScott31]

Have them all freakin arrested and the fire department disbanded. Allow the news media to drop by unannounced. I guarantee the funding will stop coming until something is done. Obviously what hurts them the most is when you hit them in the pockets. When it comes to public safety, there is absolutely no excuse.

[Bones42]

In jail? Arrested? Can someone tell me what law they are breaking?

I don't agree with what they are doing and I agree, you may be better off not being involved at all.

Are there any other members who feel as you do? Start with that group (who feels like you do) and start to slowly make changes. You won't do anything quick and have much success. Work at it and build from within.

[Chief2100]

Bones42
In jail? Arrested? Can someone tell me what law they are breaking?

In my state they would be in violation of the Open Container/Consumption of Alcoholic Beverages in Public law and most likely Public Intoxication now with that being said I have no idea what laws if any they would be in violation of in any other state so I probably didn't answer question as completely as I wish I could've. All the same stay safe brothers.!

[N2DFire]

In jail? Arrested? Can someone tell me what law they are breaking?

We were in view of the public--kids in fact. We had a live burn (a brush pile) going; we were providing a public service. A line was laid and charged and the pump operator was drinking a beer.

In addition to what Chief2100 posted - Unless someone else drove or the rig went home on auto pilot - how about DUI?

Illegal or not - bottom line is it was/is very bad judgment that will get someone hurt or killed someday and if the FD as a group are to dumb/drunk/blind to see & understand that then I agree - shut the doors to the firehall and put a padlock on it. Better for the citizens to have no FD than one that may end up doing more harm than good.

[SgtScott31]

In jail? Arrested? Can someone tell me what law they are breaking?

I don't agree with what they are doing and I agree, you may be better off not being involved at all.

Are there any other members who feel as you do? Start with that group (who feels like you do) and start to slowly make changes. You won't do anything quick and have much success. Work at it and build from within.

Open container law, DUI, underage consumption (many volly depts with members under 21 yoa).

If they cause an accident with injuries or death, blood is automatically drawn in my state. If alcohol is in the system and death is involved, manslaughter charges on the driver and endangerment charges on the supervisors that allowed him to drink & drive.

Not to mention the biggest lawsuit one could dream of that would end the fire department and put a big dent in the city/county budget.

Aside from the criminal charges, could you imagine the amount of civil litigation that would be involved with firefighters driving and/or operating equipment under the influence?

I can't believe this question is even raised. Whether it's one beer or 10 beers, what the hell is the difference? If you believe it's ok to crack open a beer on-duty, then I doubt you work for a reputable department.

[Bones42]

In NJ, Open container law is not something you get arrested and put in jail for. You get a ticket and a fine. DUI? Possibly - were they driving, did they get above the legal limit?

Extremists will never get the problem solved.

I can't believe this question is even raised. Whether it's one beer or 10 beers, what the hell is the difference? If you believe it's ok to crack open a beer on-duty, then I doubt you work for a reputable department.

Again, reading is a lost art....."I don't agree with what they are doing ..."

Not condoning what they did, not even suggesting it was Ok in any way. Simply stating that if people go off the "deep end" with non-valid statements, they lose credibility.

[SgtScott31]

[quote]Possibly - were they driving, did they get above the legal limit?[quote]

One does not have to go over the legal statutory limit to be convicted of DUI. If I can prove impairment, regardless of their BAC, I can get a conviction

[quote]Extremists will never get the problem solved.[quote]

I don't want to "misquote" you, but are you saying that it's extreme to throw someone in lockup for drinking and driving a fire engine/rescue/ladder truck?

I don't see it as extreme at all. If I have someone responding to a MY car wreck, MY house on fire, or MY loved ones in peril, I sure as hell don't want them coming after "knocking back a few."

I'm not saying throw them in jail and swallow the key, but a few days might curve them of their dumba** ways.

Criminal issues are not going to do anything compared to the size lawsuit the fire department and it's members open themselves up to. Remember, a plaintiff can sue the department, the ff's involved, and the county/city.

[ntmd8r38]

on our dept. it's real simple, any alchohol in the last 8 hours,,stay your [email protected]@ at home