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  • HAFD112
    replied
    I guess I just don't see why you need so much time on each piece. If you certify on a 3000 gal tandem axle tanker, why do I need hours in a parking lot on a pumper? Train on the biggest most complicated and rest are common sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • Catch22
    replied
    Originally posted by HAFD112 View Post
    Sorry, I just ment we don't do any training on the brush trucks. I was not trying to compare a 1-ton to a 30 ton piece of app.

    The state sets the minimum requirments here. I don't know what they are. But about a third of the firefighters here are farmers who own bigger trucks than the fire dept.
    Realistically, though, how many guys who drive a 1-ton truck do so with 250 gallons of water in the back. It may not seem like much, but it doesn't take much water (250 gallons is about a ton) shifting back and forth on a logging trail to roll one over.

    At the same time, it doesn't take long for a kid driving a 1-ton truck with an extra 1.5-2 tons of equipment and water to barrel through a red light to kill a family that didn't hear the sirens.

    There should be some sort of training for anyone driving any piece of apparatus, be it a simple EVOC or an extensive program with mandatory hours in each apparatus. I guess it all depends on what your department and their insurance carrier feels is appropriate for the liability you're taking on for putting that guy in the driver's seat.

    Leave a comment:


  • KuhShise
    replied
    A little off the topic, but...

    tree68, How do you stop a passenger train so that the slack is all out and you dont shake the S*** out of the passengers when you pull out of the station? ? - Drop the train air 15 lbs and then power the engine enough to keep the slack out until the car brakes drag you to a stop?

    Leave a comment:


  • CaptOldTimer
    replied
    Originally posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    As an EVOC instructor for the past 6 years, I always LOVE hearing this from my students. There's more to driving an emergency vehicle than there is driving a big farm truck. Sure, someone with the history of driving trucks may have a little idea about vehicle dimensions, but farmer doesn't = emergency vehicle operator.

    I agree with Box here. I too was a EVOC instructor and had taken all the courses and certified on all fire apparatus at one time.

    I drove logging trucks for my older cousin when I was 15 years old but that didn't make me qualified to drive a fire engine when I came on the job. I had the experience with trucks and that is all.


    I rode on a lot trains before, but I am not an Engineer!

    Leave a comment:


  • tree68
    replied
    I can understand the whole farmer thing - a major part of issue of driving apparatus is the whole size thing. With so many apparatus now having automatic transmissions, it's easy for that Honda driver to forget that he's not still driving his Honda - he's got tens of tons of vehicle behind him with the attendant handling issues.

    The commercial truck driver understands that. In fact, he can probably drive the EVOC course better than most of us. We may have to cure him of leaning out the open driver's door while backing, but that's another story.

    The devil is in the emergency response - driving that behemoth RLAS is a different animal and that's where EVOC (classroom) and driver training come in.

    I'm looking at another handling issue entirely - I'll have my locomotive engineer permit this winter (for the tourist line I volunteer on) and will have to learn how to properly handle a 100+ ton locomotive with three or four 80 ton passenger cars tied on...

    Leave a comment:


  • hwoods
    replied
    Ok...........

    Originally posted by HAFD112 View Post
    Sorry, I just ment we don't do any training on the brush trucks. I was not trying to compare a 1-ton to a 30 ton piece of app.

    The state sets the minimum requirments here. I don't know what they are. But about a third of the firefighters here are farmers who own bigger trucks than the fire dept.


    OK, I understand. Especially the Farmers, since we're Combining Soybeans here....... My Beans went to the Elevator last Friday in a Peterbuilt Tractor Trailer....... One of life's little annoyances for me is teaching someone who drives a Honda how to Drive the 30 tonner......

    Leave a comment:


  • BoxAlarm187
    replied
    Originally posted by HAFD112 View Post
    But about a third of the firefighters here are farmers who own bigger trucks than the fire dept.
    As an EVOC instructor for the past 6 years, I always LOVE hearing this from my students. There's more to driving an emergency vehicle than there is driving a big farm truck. Sure, someone with the history of driving trucks may have a little idea about vehicle dimensions, but farmer doesn't = emergency vehicle operator.

    Leave a comment:


  • HAFD112
    replied
    Sorry, I just ment we don't do any training on the brush trucks. I was not trying to compare a 1-ton to a 30 ton piece of app.

    The state sets the minimum requirments here. I don't know what they are. But about a third of the firefighters here are farmers who own bigger trucks than the fire dept.

    Leave a comment:


  • goblin766
    replied
    Originally posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Let's fix your spelling:


    Goblin766, do you have Microsoft Office on your computer??

    I am sure you do or something that is very similar.

    Using a blank document, open that and type what you have to say there. Do a spell check and correct all misspellings, and grammar.

    Once you are satisfied, highlight the wording used the copy feature [ ctrl + c ] copy it, and then paste it to this forum as a reply.

    How about that?



    BTW it is almost Halloween!

    At my vfd we have to take state drivers training consisting of 8 hours of class room and 8 hours of driving. Then the chief has to take us out 1 at a time and have us perform certain driving skills in each truck. Starting with ems truck then rescue truck all the way up to our tanker. He has to sign off on each one and submit it to the county for us to be covered under there insurance

    Sorry for my spelling it sux
    is that any better

    Leave a comment:


  • Engineer mtl
    replied
    We have an classroom section for EVOC roughly 4 hours, then in Tennessee we have to go through Vanessa K Free course which is a short class mostly on emergency vehicles and intersections, then we have a drivers course that we make everyone drive every vehicle they feel they can through the course. It is a large open parking lot with cones to minimize risk of damage. We do backing up, turning, serpentine, reverse serpentine, merging lanes and such. Then you keep a mileage chart and have to get 100 miles on a vehicle and 3 emergency runs with 10 hours of training on all the equipment on the truck and how to run it. Then on top of that if you want to run an engine you need to go through the 16 hour intro to pumpers class and then pass the pumper test put on by the department. It is a long process but really the miles go by fast. To help if you get signed off on the largest pumper you are pretty much signed off on any of the smaller vehicles once you show you can operate the equipment. Wow that sounds like a lot on paper.

    Leave a comment:


  • CaptOldTimer
    replied
    Originally posted by goblin766 View Post
    at my vfd we have to take state drivers tranning consiting of 8 hours of class room and 8 hours of driving then the cheif has to take us out 1 at a time and have us preform certan driving skills in each truck starting with ems truck then rescue truck all teh way up to our tanker and has to sign off on each one and submitt it to teh county for us to be covered under there insurense

    sorry for my spelling it sux




    Let's fix your spelling:


    Goblin766, do you have Microsoft Office on your computer??

    I am sure you do or something that is very similar.

    Using a blank document, open that and type what you have to say there. Do a spell check and correct all misspellings, and grammar.

    Once you are satisfied, highlight the wording used the copy feature [ ctrl + c ] copy it, and then paste it to this forum as a reply.

    How about that?



    BTW it is almost Halloween!
    Last edited by CaptOldTimer; 10-13-2010, 12:57 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • voyager9
    replied
    Our driver training consists of JPR's (compentency drills), a certain number of hours behind the wheel and then a "final exam" by a chief/line officer. We start with the rescue since it is the least complex even though it's probably the hardest to drive due to its age. Moving on to the Engine (adds the pump) and finally the Tower (adds the aerial).

    Leave a comment:


  • goblin766
    replied
    at my vfd we have to take state drivers tranning consiting of 8 hours of class room and 8 hours of driving then the cheif has to take us out 1 at a time and have us preform certan driving skills in each truck starting with ems truck then rescue truck all teh way up to our tanker and has to sign off on each one and submitt it to teh county for us to be covered under there insurense

    sorry for my spelling it sux

    Leave a comment:


  • BoxAlarm187
    replied
    Originally posted by HAFD112 View Post
    Why do you need so much driver training time? You drove to the station didn't you. Our brush trucks are 1-ton 4x4s, our guys drive them for POVs.

    I think some dept. go a little crazy with operator requirments.
    And I just sold my lifted Tahoe on 35's, in what way does that make the guy who I sold it to qualified to drive fire trucks?

    We need to insure that the taxpayers, who purchased all of the rigs sitting in the station, are being operated by people who have proven their competence behind the wheel. This includes operating a 22 ton engine and 26 ton tanker on curvy and crowned back roads. There's nothing about driving a one-ton pickup that shares similarity to the vehicle dynamics that one of these Class 7 or Class 8 vehicle shares.

    For what it's worth, the guys at my station, who have to actually go through our process (not just read about it on the internet) haven't fussed about it yet. Guess we're doing something right....

    Leave a comment:


  • Eng34FF
    replied
    Originally posted by hwoods View Post
    I am a Part Owner, Along with 86 other people, of about $ 1,750,000.00 worth of Motor Vehicles that I am Damn Proud of. If you haven't done it, you have no idea of what it's like to work to raise the money to pay for this stuff, and to be concerned about it's proper use. IMHO, anyone who thinks "Driving to the Station" in a 4x4 Pickup (which I do, BTW) and Responding to an Emergency Call driving a 62,000 Lb. Tandem Rear Axle piece of Apparatus (which I also do) is anywhere near the same, is out of touch with reality......


    For anyone who isn't up on our situation, Our Call Volume is such that folks don't sit around and wait for stuff to happen, they can get their Time in Quickly........
    Well said. Also take into consideration the damage that those 62,000 lb vehicles can do to civilian vehicles and the civilians themselves, and good training just makes sense.

    Leave a comment:

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