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  • #16
    Ok...........

    Originally posted by HAFD112 View Post
    Sorry, I just ment we don't do any training on the brush trucks. I was not trying to compare a 1-ton to a 30 ton piece of app.

    The state sets the minimum requirments here. I don't know what they are. But about a third of the firefighters here are farmers who own bigger trucks than the fire dept.


    OK, I understand. Especially the Farmers, since we're Combining Soybeans here....... My Beans went to the Elevator last Friday in a Peterbuilt Tractor Trailer....... One of life's little annoyances for me is teaching someone who drives a Honda how to Drive the 30 tonner......
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

    Comment


    • #17
      I can understand the whole farmer thing - a major part of issue of driving apparatus is the whole size thing. With so many apparatus now having automatic transmissions, it's easy for that Honda driver to forget that he's not still driving his Honda - he's got tens of tons of vehicle behind him with the attendant handling issues.

      The commercial truck driver understands that. In fact, he can probably drive the EVOC course better than most of us. We may have to cure him of leaning out the open driver's door while backing, but that's another story.

      The devil is in the emergency response - driving that behemoth RLAS is a different animal and that's where EVOC (classroom) and driver training come in.

      I'm looking at another handling issue entirely - I'll have my locomotive engineer permit this winter (for the tourist line I volunteer on) and will have to learn how to properly handle a 100+ ton locomotive with three or four 80 ton passenger cars tied on...
      Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

      Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
        As an EVOC instructor for the past 6 years, I always LOVE hearing this from my students. There's more to driving an emergency vehicle than there is driving a big farm truck. Sure, someone with the history of driving trucks may have a little idea about vehicle dimensions, but farmer doesn't = emergency vehicle operator.

        I agree with Box here. I too was a EVOC instructor and had taken all the courses and certified on all fire apparatus at one time.

        I drove logging trucks for my older cousin when I was 15 years old but that didn't make me qualified to drive a fire engine when I came on the job. I had the experience with trucks and that is all.


        I rode on a lot trains before, but I am not an Engineer!
        Stay Safe and Well Out There....

        Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

        Comment


        • #19
          A little off the topic, but...

          tree68, How do you stop a passenger train so that the slack is all out and you dont shake the S*** out of the passengers when you pull out of the station? ? - Drop the train air 15 lbs and then power the engine enough to keep the slack out until the car brakes drag you to a stop?

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by HAFD112 View Post
            Sorry, I just ment we don't do any training on the brush trucks. I was not trying to compare a 1-ton to a 30 ton piece of app.

            The state sets the minimum requirments here. I don't know what they are. But about a third of the firefighters here are farmers who own bigger trucks than the fire dept.
            Realistically, though, how many guys who drive a 1-ton truck do so with 250 gallons of water in the back. It may not seem like much, but it doesn't take much water (250 gallons is about a ton) shifting back and forth on a logging trail to roll one over.

            At the same time, it doesn't take long for a kid driving a 1-ton truck with an extra 1.5-2 tons of equipment and water to barrel through a red light to kill a family that didn't hear the sirens.

            There should be some sort of training for anyone driving any piece of apparatus, be it a simple EVOC or an extensive program with mandatory hours in each apparatus. I guess it all depends on what your department and their insurance carrier feels is appropriate for the liability you're taking on for putting that guy in the driver's seat.

            Comment


            • #21
              I guess I just don't see why you need so much time on each piece. If you certify on a 3000 gal tandem axle tanker, why do I need hours in a parking lot on a pumper? Train on the biggest most complicated and rest are common sense.

              Comment


              • #22
                Yeah.....

                I see your Point, but isn't it easier to work up than down? As a little Kid, I started Hunting AFTER a good Hunter's Safety Course, and worked my way up from a .22 and a .410 to the 12 Gauge........... A strong case was made for being a SAFE Hunter as well as a COMPETENT Hunter. I see Driving in the same light as Hunting. "Work your way up, and always Work Safe" is Rule 1 with me......
                Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
                In memory of
                Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
                Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

                IACOJ Budget Analyst

                I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

                www.gdvfd18.com

                Comment


                • #23
                  Huh...........

                  Originally posted by KuhShise View Post
                  tree68, How do you stop a passenger train so that the slack is all out and you dont shake the S*** out of the passengers when you pull out of the station? ? - Drop the train air 15 lbs and then power the engine enough to keep the slack out until the car brakes drag you to a stop?
                  Come on Man, That's Train Handling??...... Try This: Release the Train Line, Then the Independent, Come out of the hole in Run 8 with the Amps in the Red and the Sand working full on all units..... Oh yeah, try for a 15 Horsepower per ton ratio...........


                  Seriously, Try turning up the retainers on the last car and run that way all the time. Should quiet the Slack action without causing Traction Motor overheating.....
                  Last edited by hwoods; 10-14-2010, 03:58 PM.
                  Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
                  In memory of
                  Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
                  Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

                  IACOJ Budget Analyst

                  I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

                  www.gdvfd18.com

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by HAFD112 View Post
                    I guess I just don't see why you need so much time on each piece. If you certify on a 3000 gal tandem axle tanker, why do I need hours in a parking lot on a pumper? Train on the biggest most complicated and rest are common sense.
                    The 1-ton truck with 250 gallons of water is going to have far different handling characteristics than the 3000 gallon dual-axle tanker. The firefighters need to learn each vehicle....it's not the idea if you can drive 'em big, you can drive 'em small.
                    Career Fire Captain
                    Volunteer Chief Officer


                    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      We require 3 total hours on the smaller trucks (light rescue, service trucks and brush truck which are all on either F350 or F450 chassis), then 6 hours on the commercial pumpers (1000g water tanks w/ identical chassis)) and 4 additional hours on the custom pumper and heavy rescue (identical chassis).

                      The 3000g tanker and 2 3000g pumper-tankers are next, and we have no standard times for those. Most members require 3-5 hours of driving time to be checked off.

                      We have 3 pre-determined routes that a driver must drive with an officer after they have completed the required time to be certified.

                      For the the pumpers, they also must demonstrate a set of pre-determined skills including pumping an attack line, pumping the deck gun, taking on water from another truck, refilling the tank, pumping a foam line, switching to a dedicated source, drafting and emergency source to tank switchback procedures.

                      We also have a 6000g tractor-trailer tanker. Driving that vehicle is reserved for members with documented 18-wheeler or heavy truck experience.

                      We generally do not begin driver training until the member has hit the one-year mark, unless they have previous fire service driving experience.
                      Last edited by LaFireEducator; 10-14-2010, 04:31 PM.
                      Train to fight the fires you fight.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Utility vehicles require 10 hours driving.
                        Engine's require 10 hours driving, 10 hours pumping EACH.
                        Truck(w/pump) requires 10 hours driving, 10 hours pumping, 10 hours flying.

                        Must have EVOC, Pump 1 prior to being signed off. Effective April 2011, must have CDL w/air brake endorsement to drive any front line apparatus.
                        A Fire Chief has ONLY 1 JOB and that's to take care of his fireman. EVERYTHING else falls under this.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by JTFIRE80 View Post
                          Effective April 2011, must have CDL w/air brake endorsement to drive any front line apparatus.
                          Just out of curiosity, why?
                          "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by hwoods View Post
                            Come on Man, That's Train Handling??...... Try This: Release the Train Line, Then the Independent, Come out of the hole in Run 8 with the Amps in the Red and the Sand working full on all units..... Oh yeah, try for a 15 Horsepower per ton ratio...........


                            Seriously, Try turning up the retainers on the last car and run that way all the time. Should quiet the Slack action without causing Traction Motor overheating.....
                            Didnt you mean to say "crack the injectors open while opening the main steam valve and have the fireman start shoveling?"
                            "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by hwoods View Post
                              Come on Man, That's Train Handling??...... Try This: Release the Train Line, Then the Independent, Come out of the hole in Run 8 with the Amps in the Red and the Sand working full on all units..... Oh yeah, try for a 15 Horsepower per ton ratio...........


                              Seriously, Try turning up the retainers on the last car and run that way all the time. Should quiet the Slack action without causing Traction Motor overheating.....
                              The station is on a bit of a grade. Leaving going north, your slack is already stretched. Leaving going south, just release the brakes and let it roll...

                              Just to throw a monkey wrench into the works (and throw the thread a little further off track), right now we're working with a 1950-ish F unit and doing push moves whenever we go south (six miles in one direction, nearly 11 in the other)... No dragging the train to a stop when you're pushing...

                              And if you saw our profile (varies from 1500' elevation at the lowest point to around 1750' at the highest on our "local" trips) which includes some 1% grades and 5.5 degree curves...

                              I'll get my time in the seat next year.
                              Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                              Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Hmmm........

                                Originally posted by tree68 View Post
                                The station is on a bit of a grade. Leaving going north, your slack is already stretched. Leaving going south, just release the brakes and let it roll...

                                Just to throw a monkey wrench into the works (and throw the thread a little further off track), right now we're working with a 1950-ish F unit and doing push moves whenever we go south (six miles in one direction, nearly 11 in the other)... No dragging the train to a stop when you're pushing...

                                And if you saw our profile (varies from 1500' elevation at the lowest point to around 1750' at the highest on our "local" trips) which includes some 1% grades and 5.5 degree curves...

                                I'll get my time in the seat next year.

                                Yep. Sanders get a workout there.........
                                Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
                                In memory of
                                Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
                                Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

                                IACOJ Budget Analyst

                                I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

                                www.gdvfd18.com

                                Comment

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