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  • Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    Show me where I ever called a career firefighter a mercenary? Where did I call them evil?
    Right here....

    Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    It's a cultural expectation to be more than a paid mercinary and only help the community when you're being paid.
    Like I said H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E. Or should I say mercenary, since that is what you think of career fire fighters. Your right you never said evil. How would you describe those you hate, and despise. I should have not put words in your mouth, but it is evident you have disdain for career fire fighters, although that is how you make your living.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
      Let's just repeat that so it's clear who said it if there are any questions later.
      And it's true.

      Career firefighters have limited capabilities, too, if you ask more of them than they have time to provide. Which is the context in which LA's statement was made.
      Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

      Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
        Bottom line is volunteers have limited capabilities. Stretch those capabilities and the ability to manage the department becomes less and less.
        Clearly looking down your nose, at the little people beneath you.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by tree68 View Post
          Career firefighters have limited capabilities, too, if you ask more of them than they have time to provide. Which is the context in which LA's statement was made.
          If we're going to discuss context, let's be honest. He's saying volunteer capabilities are less than career firefighters. That's inconsistent with arguing that we all "do the same job."

          LFE constantly makes it clear that he considers volunteers less than career firefighters in one statement and then turns around and contradicts himself in the next. Your effort to defend his hypocrisy is misguided; he's no more a friend of volunteers than he is career firefighters.
          "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
          sigpic
          The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by tree68 View Post
            And it's true.

            Career firefighters have limited capabilities, too, if you ask more of them than they have time to provide. Which is the context in which LA's statement was made.
            The same can be said of anyone in any profession. This statement makes no sense.

            What makes vollies ineffective is that they don't show up and they are in constant turnover.

            There may be exceptions but there are numerous articles and reports about this issue.

            Including this one from the NVFC.
            They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

            I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
              Guess I'm just a hypocrite then.

              Intresting that anyone who suggests you lay off career firefighters and replace them with volunteers in in communities where volunteers should be able to be recruited is somehow anti-career.
              So... if a couple of career firefighters call for more paid staffing, that makes them anti volunteer?

              You have people willing to volunteer... good for you.
              Many communities do not. That is why they have paid staff.
              ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
              Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

              Comment


              • Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                The same can be said of anyone in any profession. This statement makes no sense.

                What makes vollies ineffective is that they don't show up and they are in constant turnover.

                There may be exceptions but there are numerous articles and reports about this issue.

                Including this one from the NVFC.
                Our department is staffed 24/7 365 with all vollys. We all work 24 hour shifts so their is always people at the fire house if we are needed!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tony4310 View Post
                  Our department is staffed 24/7 365 with all vollys. We all work 24 hour shifts so their is always people at the fire house if we are needed!
                  Good for you. Do you get dental?
                  They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                  I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                    Good for you. Do you get dental?
                    I wish......... Now stop being so sarcastic and mean to everyone. Are you a butt head only online or are you just an unpleasant person in general? You just seem to thrive on drama and arguing with others. You should be a politician. That is your real career field you need to be in.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                      Good for you. Do you get dental?
                      Yep - from my day job.
                      Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                      Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
                        Let's just repeat that so it's clear who said it if there are any questions later.
                        Yes, bottom line is volunteers have limited capabilities in terms of time avaialble for admin, which is why there are often a collection of multiple small VFDs in an area rather than a consolidation of a few large VFDs.

                        The time capability does not exist for volunteers to run a large department without hiring admin, which often negates any operational savings of the smaller VFDs v. the one larger department.

                        I thought that was pretty clear in my post as to where I was going.

                        This is the preceding paragraph, where time is discussed. I didn't repeat "time" again because the preceding paragraph had already set the context.

                        The fact is, most volunteer chief officers have a limited time beyond work and family to dedicate to the department. For many of them, the responsibilities heaped upon them are at the edge of their management capacities, primarily because of time.

                        However, that being said, volunteer departments do generally have less advanced capabilities than career departments. The same applies to volunteers, as a rule, in terms of advanced skills and certifications.

                        I never denied that.

                        Why? Time.

                        While most volunteers have the basic firefighting skills, they generally do not possess advanced skills unless they have significant time and have acquired them over the long haul.

                        Why? They aren't able to take a 16-week academy. They are unable to take a week or 2-week long confined space or trench class. They are unable to take a 120-hour hazmat Tech/Chemistry I & II class or an 80-hour Driver/Operator .

                        They have jobs. They don't have the time.

                        I never denied that volunteers, except in some special situations or with a history of working for a career department, will have the advanced capabilities of a career member.
                        Last edited by LaFireEducator; 08-31-2010, 02:01 AM.
                        Train to fight the fires you fight.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Acklan View Post
                          Clearly looking down your nose, at the little people beneath you.
                          No.

                          Simply acknowledging that volunteers have limited time available, and often a smaller organization is the best approach when looking at the size of a VFD in terms of effective management rather than consolidation into larger VFDs.

                          Acknowledging the limited time available is not looking down at volunteer members.

                          I recognize that their time is extremly valuable, and I make sure that I use it wisely, especially in terms of practical training they will use in the community, rather than teaching towards certification.
                          Last edited by LaFireEducator; 08-31-2010, 02:04 AM.
                          Train to fight the fires you fight.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Acklan View Post
                            Right here....



                            Like I said H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E. Or should I say mercenary, since that is what you think of career fire fighters. Your right you never said evil. How would you describe those you hate, and despise. I should have not put words in your mouth, but it is evident you have disdain for career fire fighters, although that is how you make your living.
                            Yup, you're right. But let's look at the whole post and the context of the discussion.

                            It's a cultural expectation to be more than a paid mercinary and only help the community when you're being paid.

                            See the whole post in context.

                            Notice I was referring to career members that did not belong to a VFD, if there is one, in the community in which they live. That was the discussion.

                            In that case they are mercenaries. If you have the skills, and decide only to apply them where you are being paid, and not in the community you live in, where you would not be paid but would respond as a volunteer, you are a mercenary. I do fully stand by that statement.

                            I fully beleive that all career members have the obligation to volunteer where they live if it's covered by a VFD. If they don't, they rate awfully low in my book and I have little value for them.

                            However, I did not and never have called all career members mercenaries.
                            Last edited by LaFireEducator; 08-31-2010, 02:03 AM.
                            Train to fight the fires you fight.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
                              So... if a couple of career firefighters call for more paid staffing, that makes them anti volunteer?

                              You have people willing to volunteer... good for you.
                              Many communities do not. That is why they have paid staff.
                              I think there are more communities out there that have volunteers available than you think.

                              It's simply a matter of how you ask them and how you treat them once they are on-board.

                              In many communities, that's the issue. Not the availability of volunteers.

                              (That last sentence also applies to communities with VFDs having recruiting and retention issues)
                              Train to fight the fires you fight.

                              Comment


                              • LA,

                                You are really a confused and mean spirited individual.

                                You dislike career firefighters, despite being one, and you have absolutely no respect for volunteers.

                                I would like for you to come tell the career guys I work with who do not volunteer on their off days that they are mercenaries. What they do on their off days is not one single bit of your business. If they choose to be volunteers good for them. If not, why is it YOUR business?

                                I would also, VERY MUCH, like for you to come tell some of the vollies in my area who are haz-mat techs, rope rescue techs, water rescue techs, EMT's, Certified fire service instructors and more, that they are less qualified simply because they are volunteers.

                                The problem with any of your broad brush stroking is that all it does is prove what a fool you are. YOUR volunteers may find excuses not to be trained, in this area many MAKE the time to be trained. They use vacations, make arrangements with employers, and take time from their families to get what they feel they need to be better firefighters. I find it sad that the vollies your alternatively praise and then ridicule haven't got the dedication of the volunteers I know.
                                Crazy, but that's how it goes
                                Millions of people living as foes
                                Maybe it's not too late
                                To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                                Comment

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