Mandating a percent for calls

[J.Feicht314]

I run with a rather active volunteer department (around 300 plus a year) and we have a good amount of "members".. now i understand that you cant ask for everyone on every call but when it gets to a point where its the same guys running every call i get discouraged... so my question is does anyone have a set standard in their SOG's that once a member has been voted to active that they make a certain percentage of the call volume for the year? like i said i understand you cant get everyone especially during the day, and im not "bashing" department i just want some input.

[nmfire]

Membership requires only X meetings and X drills. Tax abatement, pension, etc requires a percentage but I don't recall the number.

[J.Feicht314]

we have that you have to attend at least 1/3 of the meetings (4) of the year in order to vote or be nominated for a position... nothing with drills ...theres just some dusty gear that could be cleaned up is my main thing and we vote on every position rather than some departments around us that they vote on chief and he picks line officers, so we have an officer that barely comes around and we just put a bunch of guys through FFI and they are waiting on results and wed like to get to the point where we can say that you have to have certain qualifications to be an officer...but back to the non showing officer..i think it plausible that they should be set to a higher standard and have to make a higher percentage than others and be more involved...

[BoxAlarm187]

We use a points system:

• Each duty hour: 1 point
• Each training hour: 1 point
• Each call: 1 point
• Each meeting attended: 1 point

Required to have 75 points to be considered an "active" member for the year, and at least 15 of those points must be from training.

My station is doing about 700/year, with 50% of those being EMS first response.

For our station, 75 points is easy to obtain. We have other stations in the county that run far fewer calls than we do, hence the compromised-upon 75 points.

This may or may not work for your situation...

[J.Feicht314]

i like that idea; like i stated above we run 300 plus calls and thats busy for around the area we are in.... but thats just Fire/Rescue/service/Dive and water rescue... we do not do QRS unless its something very serious and a couple EMS assist calls but mainly; but there may be a way to work that into our system

[Eng34FF]

We have a point system. Points for calls/standby, training, meetings, drills, fundraising/collateral duty and being an officer. You must get 60 points with points in a minimum of 4 categories with a maximum number of points possible in each category. You must also not miss more than 2 monthly meetings in a row (unexcused) and must have a minimum of 25 hours of fundraising to vote.

We run about 2000 calls a year, so meeting the maximum runs for a year is easy. Most people have trouble getting points in 4 different categories.

I would recommend staying away from a percentage of calls for a couple of reasons. The first is that some people are just not "lucky". I can spend 10 hours at the firehouse and not get a call, but as soon as I leave, 2 or 3 calls come out. Should I be cut because I have bad timing?

The other thing to keep in mind is that some people contribute in more ways than running calls, and do a lot of work behind the scenes. You need to be able to keep them active and motivated as well.

[voyager9]

i like that idea; like i stated above we run 300 plus calls and thats busy for around the area we are in.... but thats just Fire/Rescue/service/Dive and water rescue... we do not do QRS unless its something very serious and a couple EMS assist calls but mainly; but there may be a way to work that into our system

We have a point system (forget the breakdown off the top of my head). We also have an in-house duty crew program. That seems to spread the load across all the members.

[FuturePrimitive]

We have a point system. 1 point for just about every event, calls, drills, fill-ins, meetings, outside/state training, etc.

We need to make 10% of calls, 50% of business meetings (6), and I forget how many drills, I think minimum of 12. We also have minimum annual training to retain interior status. If a member misses points for 1 year they are placed on probation. Two consecutive years and they are removed from the active roster, no vote, no appeal, just return your gear and cya.

We run about 900 jobs a year so its pretty easy to make points. We don't get much EMS (roughly 15% of calls) but we make up for it in automatic false alarms.

[hwoods]

And...........

We have a Points System and a "Standby Crew" requirement as well. Eng34ine pretty well summed it up You can Be (and I have Been) at the Station for a "Standby" and run nothing all day (or Night) and get halfway home and the Tones drop. Recently I was at the Station for about 5 or 6 hours, and the phone didn't even ring. It was so quiet in Glenn Dale that you could hear the Chevys Rust. I leave to go to the Carryout to pick up Dinner and the Engine comes up the road behind me on a call. Come out of the Carryout with Dinner, and the Heavy Rescue goes by on a different call. I then get back to the station just in time to Drive the Ambulance on an unrelated call.........


Moral of the Story: Points earned for different functions work well to determine a members activity level and active status. This applies more and more as a station gets busier.....

[voyager9]

We need to make 10% of calls, 50% of business meetings (6), and I forget how many drills, I think minimum of 12. We also have minimum annual training to retain interior status. If a member misses points for 1 year they are placed on probation. Two consecutive years and they are removed from the active roster, no vote, no appeal, just return your gear and cya.

Just curious, but how would somebody get put back on the active roster if their gear is taken away? Granted, it sounds like with your system someone would really have to TRY to miss making the minimums.

With us, when members don't make the minimum they're not eligible for LOSAP/stipend or voting. They are allowed to keep their gear though. We've found that calls/training usually aren't the problem (since they're part of duty crews) but for some reason people have a hard time making 6 (of 12) meetings a year.

[voyager9]

Recently I was at the Station for about 5 or 6 hours, and the phone didn't even ring. It was so quiet in Glenn Dale that you could hear the Chevys Rust. I leave to go to the Carryout to pick up Dinner and the Engine comes up the road behind me on a call.

Just goes to show that the Probability of the Tones dropping is directly proportional to when you've placed the Take out Order.

Moral of the Story: Points earned for different functions work well to determine a members activity level and active status. This applies more and more as a station gets busier.....

We try to be flexible with how members can earn points. We get points for duty crews (5 or 12 hrs), points per drill (while on DC), and points per call. Since there are some nights when we don't turn a wheel we are allowed to convert some overnight DC points to call points. This encourages folks to pick up the 12-hour crews when they're falling behind on call points.

[tree68]

I recently encountered someone from an ambulance squad that gives something like 25 points for a "first call" response (they are a respond-from-home squad), as well as points for in-station time, special events, etc. IIRC, they give something like 50 points if you take in a "second call" run. At the end of the year, you can buy stuff with your points, which could be a lot, but it's all relative.

The point here is that any point system can be devised - give lots of points for stuff you value, less for the routine. I do go along with having minimums though - we require five meetings, three fund-raisers, and one of the two hose tests per year. Otherwise you have folks who will run up their total on one thing and skip everything else.

We are investigating LOSAP. One of the administrative requirements is to post the points quarterly. If you do mandate a percentage of calls, folks can see where they stand. I understand that there are those who will make the number of calls they have to in order to get the points, but since we (as a service) don't know how many calls we'll end up with for the year, they really have to keep up or risk not getting credit for the year.

My son managed to get his LOSAP points with his dep't last year in part because of the stand-by time he did at the station, calls or no.

[FuturePrimitive]

Just curious, but how would somebody get put back on the active roster if their gear is taken away?

They wouldn't. I should have been clearer, it's not just the active roster, you're dismissed from the membership. If you want back in you have to resubmit an application and go back through the application process. And you'd better be pretty convincing that you'll be able to make points this time. In fact, you may not even make it past the standing committee since, as a dismissed former member, you did not leave the department in good standing.

It sounds pretty harsh and I guess it is but it does trim the dead weight and make room for new members. Like you said though, you have to pretty much give up to not make points. We average 3 calls a day so making 90 calls a year isn't hard. Oh, and there's certain exemptions for college students that go away to school, I believe they just have to make 10% of calls when school is not in session. (Required training has to be made up.) In addition, seniority counts. I think at 10 years the required call percent starts to goes down, and at 25 years it's down to 0. There's still required training and business meetings to remain active though.

[FFPM03]

I'm a member of a department that runs ~1200 calls a year and we use a points system. Everything from running calls, pub ed events, trainings, special details, etc all get a point. We use a quarterly pay period so at the end of 4 months you need to attend 10% of the average of the top 10 responders calls. Kind of confusing, but if all the top 10 responders went to 100 calls then you would need to have attended at least 10 to be considered "active". We have an inactive roster that you're placed on if you do not meet that requirement. Also you have to attend a certain number of trainings, which I do not recall the required number. Being placed on the "inactive" roster does not mean you can't attend department functions, it's more for insurance I believe.

[ChiefKN]

We use 40% of meetings, drills and "credit calls" in order to remain active.

It's easer to define a "non-credit call". A "non-credit call" is a car accident, ems assist or service type of call (flooded basement, etc).

Recently there was a change to make 3 'non-credit' mva calls equal to 1 "credit call".

If you miss 3 drills or 3 meetings in a row then you are "delinquent" and there are 3 levels of punishment (25$ fine... up to 3rd strike which is throwing you out).

If you don't maintain 40% then you are thrown out or moved to the "inactive rolls" if you have 10 years of active service with at least a 60% average for each year.

We have 4 make up drills a year (usually a 4 hour drill) where you can get 1/2 of the calls you missed in your worst months.

Confusing? Yep, that's why we have a computer doing all this calculating.