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Volunteers who don't follow SOG's?

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  • #16
    FWD, I like your approach... Unfortunately, politics and old school ettiquette can overrun the best of intentions.

    Until higher authorities within any given department grow a spine (enforce SOP and SOGs) the best one can hope for is to set the best example you can by doing what you are supposed to be doing. You can teach it, preach it, perform it but you cannot force (a) higher ranking individual(s) to follow if they rule the roost.

    Some people only learn through the school of hard knocks...If those persons yeild the political power then you have to do what you can until something serious knocks em up side the helmet (if they are wearing one).
    A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

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    • #17
      Yes, that response was borderline apathy...
      A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

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      • #18
        Anyone who allows politics to intercede in the name of Safety deserves to have their *** re-arranged.
        Last edited by FWDbuff; 07-26-2010, 09:37 PM.
        "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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        • #19
          Originally posted by FWDbuff View Post
          Anyone who allows politics to intercede in the name of Safety deserves to have their *** re-arranged.
          It's important to remember that in an organization such as a volunteer fire department there are often two sets of "leaders."

          The nominal leaders are the elected officers. Sometimes they are selected because they are the best qualified, sometimes because they are most popular, and sometimes because they are the only ones foolish enough to take on the job.

          Then there's the opinion leaders. You know who they are in your department. The motion is made and seconded, the discussion is finished, and it's time for a vote. When the chief/president calls for "all in favor" everyone figuratively or actually looks to the opinion leader to see how they are voting. If you want to curry favor with the opinion leader, you'll support their agenda.

          Occasionally an organization will get lucky and have officers who are both nominal and opinion leaders, but more often not. And if someone gets elected who isn't on good terms with the opinion leader, it won't be pretty.

          Opinion leaders rarely hold office. They prefer to have their power without the responsibility.

          So, if several members of the OL's clique happened to jump on the engine and the officer isn't part of the group, it's very possible that they are busy challenging his authority, probably in the "name" of their good buddy, the opinion leader.

          Shouldn't be that way, but it is.
          Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

          Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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          • #20
            Well, FWD put it best. Around here, if you don't follow directions given by the IC, you will be disciplined, or at least warned. We have differences between departments and personnel within a department, but in general that stays at the firehouse, no place for that at the scene.

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            • #21
              sigh... in a perfect world...

              Look, the only ways to change things in a horrible environment are to teach/learn the correct way to do things, set the example, and hope to the fire Gods that the young and up and coming are noticing.

              Some departments have enormous turnover and therefore (usually) opportunities for growth and development...

              Some small departments have no turnover for up to 30 + years... This is where an uphill battle can exist.

              If you dont think these mini-kingdoms exist where the generally accepted ways to fight fire are thrust to the side then you are naive.

              The point is to find a way to help those living under the shadow of "ignorant" command develop and enforce SOPs and SOGs so they can leave the past behind and find a brighter, safer future.

              Telling FFs who really want to do right by the system and stand up to those who dont wanna do right is all fine and good....But in some of these venues, the lack of political power will lead to crap like being thrown off a department.
              Leadership that doesn't want to change will pick and gnaw at an indiviual until they find a crack they can exploit...Then comes the heave ho!
              It is not right. But in many cases that is the problem.

              To be part of the solution, you have to find a way to be there positively and build a consensus to do it right every single time.

              Rant over
              A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

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