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Volunteers who don't follow SOG's?

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  • Volunteers who don't follow SOG's?

    How do you handle them? Just finished a call where half the crew left the scene in a ****y mood because they didn't want to wear their gear. Maybe full gear isn't required for a wreck, but if the sog's call for it, to me that means everyone wears full gear. Right or wrong?

  • #2
    If the incident commander said put them on and half of them didn't, I would say there may be a problem on both sides.

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    • #3
      Maybe the IC was one of those that left?

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      • #4
        Follow your discipline SOG
        I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

        "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

        "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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        • #5
          Unless the crew was just being ****y, maybe it's time to review the SOG.

          "Because I said so" doesn't always hack it - and sometimes that's how the author of an SOG thinks, hang the real world.

          If the situation didn't warrant full gear, maybe that needs to be addressed in the SOG.

          If the situation did warrant full gear, then some education is required.

          Most importantly is the acronym in your thread title - SOG. That is a standard operating guideline. As such, it's not the law of the land - it's only the recommended practice.

          Some places have now moved from SOPs to SOGs to "best practices" for legal reasons.
          Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

          Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by tree68 View Post
            Some places have now moved from SOPs to SOGs to "best practices" for legal reasons.
            It makes no difference what you call them. This is an old wive's tale.
            I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

            "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

            "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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            • #7
              We discipline them if they fail or refuse to obey the IC or ranking officer.
              “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
              —John 14:6

              "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"
              —Romans 3:23

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              • #8
                Originally posted by bigMike105 View Post
                How do you handle them? Just finished a call where half the crew left the scene in a ****y mood because they didn't want to wear their gear. Maybe full gear isn't required for a wreck, but if the sog's call for it, to me that means everyone wears full gear. Right or wrong?
                -Were they actively engaged in performing a task or standing by?
                -What was the weather?
                -What did their Company Officer have to say about it? How much time does he have as a line officer?
                "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                  It makes no difference what you call them. This is an old wive's tale.
                  You beat me to it!
                  "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
                  sigpic
                  The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                    It makes no difference what you call them. This is an old wive's tale.
                    Duly noted.
                    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by FWDbuff View Post
                      -Were they actively engaged in performing a task or standing by?
                      -What was the weather?
                      -What did their Company Officer have to say about it? How much time does he have as a line officer?
                      Active, weather was warm and muggy. No response from the CO yet.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bigMike105 View Post
                        Active, weather was warm and muggy. No response from the CO yet.
                        What is your interest in all of this? Did YOU have YOUR gear on, and did YOU perform YOUR task to the best of your abilities, following all SOP's/SOG's? If so, perhaps not worrying about it would be an option for you.

                        Now, if you were the Company Officer, or Acting Company Officer, yeah, then you have reason to inject your interest.
                        "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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                        • #13
                          FWD, check for a Pm please.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bigMike105 View Post
                            FWD, check for a Pm please.
                            1. Take the ones that flagrantly disobeyed your direct order aside, one by one, in a closed door environment, and go over the written SOP (I assume it is in writing) with them. Then give them one (and only one) verbal warning from yourself that if they disobey a written SOP and or a direct order from you again, you will take it to the next level of discipline as prescribed by your organization. Explain that they do not have the option nor luxury of disobeying a direct order, and that this is their one and only "get out of jail free" card. If they do it again, you MUST follow through with the discipline as prescribed by your organization. Remember, you are now a Company Officer. ACT LIKE ONE.

                            2. As for the officer senior to you, again, take him aside in a closed door session, and explain to him that you do not appreciate being undermined in front of the personnel that you were in charge of. Remind him that the both of you, as Officers, have the responsibility to not only ensure that everyone goes home injury-free, but to also set a higher standard and set an example. If he laughs at you, or brushes you off in some fashion, explain to him that his reaction is not acceptable and that you will be taking it up the chain of command. And follow through!

                            I have a saying and a philosophy at my volunteer house that you may benefit from- "I am not here to be your friend, I am here to be your Company Officer. If I **** you off in the process, Boo Hoo. But if I have anything to say about it, you are going home to your wife, girlfriend or parents the same way you climbed aboard my Engine Company."

                            One more thing- A little due diligence goes a long way. On a hot, muggy night, letting them hang onto their coats while waiting for an assignment is not a bad thing. And as for them performing a task without the proper safety equipment- Safety is everyone's job, and anyone can stop a task if it is being performed unsafely.

                            I hope this helps.
                            "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
                              You beat me to it!
                              Me too!

                              (the following is to meet the 10 character requirement)

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