Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Acting at a scene out of district

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • mikeyboy
    replied
    How we handle this.....

    With my Department going ALS 5 or 6 months ago, we ran into this. How we handled the ALS/BLS Staffed Unit is that our Medics make Base Station contact and advise what they have. Many times our Base Station will release our Medic and allow us to pass Patient Care.

    As far as the situation where the ALS Pt. Care was needed then I would recommend doing the same thing. Make Base Station contact, advise them what you have and if not released then either ride-in or provide Pt. Care until an ALS Unit is available to respond to the scene. The BLS Provider could contact their Supervisor and advise them what is going on and tell them they need the next available ALS Unit to respond priority. Even if it's a Medic Assessment Engine or the ALS Supervisor themselves, the off-duty Medic can pass care to the on-duty Medic and continue on his road trip. The whole "Professional Courtesy" thought process.....

    Just trying to spin a different outlook on the situation.....
    Last edited by mikeyboy; 11-14-2010, 04:19 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • FWDbuff
    replied
    Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Actually, it would.

    EMTs,firefighters or paramedics should not be required to operate out of district unless there is some type of mechanism that provides medical and wage coverage. My department has certain situations, such as riding in a department vehicle or traveling to/from training and conferences, where we are required to stop out of district. In those cases, both the career and volunteer members are covered as if they were operating at an in-district incident. There is no legal or department requirement
    to stop at in-district calls unless you are on-duty, which is defined by state law as receiving pay at that time, and none out of district except for the department requirements outlined above.

    I beleive the law it Vermont did that for fire personnel as it allowed the department's insurance and workman's comp to come into play if they were injured.
    God forbid it would be the right thing to do.........

    Leave a comment:


  • KanFireman
    replied
    I just reread my previous post and need to clarify. The patients needed ALS treatment the several times where the medic was stuck riding with the unit. It was an ethical dilema, not a legal dilema, if they leave the patient with that crews the patient had a decent chance of not making it to the hospital alive, but by riding with the crew that patients odds improved dramatically.

    Leave a comment:


  • LaFireEducator
    replied
    Originally posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Oh I bet that would p i s s you off if La. had that law.
    Actually, it would.

    EMTs,firefighters or paramedics should not be required to operate out of district unless there is some type of mechanism that provides medical and wage coverage. My department has certain situations, such as riding in a department vehicle or traveling to/from training and conferences, where we are required to stop out of district. In those cases, both the career and volunteer members are covered as if they were operating at an in-district incident. There is no legal or department requirement
    to stop at in-district calls unless you are on-duty, which is defined by state law as receiving pay at that time, and none out of district except for the department requirements outlined above.

    I beleive the law it Vermont did that for fire personnel as it allowed the department's insurance and workman's comp to come into play if they were injured.

    Leave a comment:


  • FWDbuff
    replied
    Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Vermont does have a law which requires both EMTs and private citizens to stop and render aid.
    Oh I bet that would p i s s you off if La. had that law.

    Leave a comment:


  • LaFireEducator
    replied
    Originally posted by tree68 View Post
    And I believe it is/was Vermont which required EMTs to place ID on their vehicle and to stop and render aid. Corrections/updates welcome.
    Vermont does have a law which requires both EMTs and private citizens to stop and render aid.

    Both are covered under Good Samaritan laws, but obviously the standard for gross negligence is much different for untrained citizens than it is for trained responders.

    Leave a comment:


  • Leeland
    replied
    Well I volunteer in one state but work in another plus travel though DC on a daily basis. In my time, I have stopped at MVA's both in VA and MD, so far not DC. Each time, without fail having something to ID me as a fire fighter helps. So it is usually a traffic vest, rain gear or a shirt and I haven't had a problem with the LEO's or the local fire department.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ashburn_2011
    replied
    Exactly. .lol I.D. Cards or Badges wouldnt take up space and they have the same amount of authority as your bunker gear. Also if lost, you can replace badges or an i.d tag way quicker and cheaper than a turnout coat, vest, etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • tree68
    replied
    Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    FWIW, many states don't consider an off-duty medic to be functionally anything but an EMT which relieves this problem. (i.e. an off-duty medic without a medic rig, ALS equipment, drugs, and medical control is just an EMT)
    Assuming the transport is BLS, it might be as easy as a call to medical control. If they agree it's BLS, the ALS provider is off the hook. We do that here often enough.

    Oftimes a BLS rig is just exactly that - no ALS equipment, meds, etc. And even if the bus itself is stocked for ALS, odds are a responder who doesn't run with that squad won't have access to the necessary tools.

    I'm only ALS in my region in NYS. I have to be recognized by another region (and be up on their protocols, which may or may not be the same as ours) before I can practice at that level in their area.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeputyMarshal
    replied
    Originally posted by KanFireman View Post
    MVA and Medicals can be tricky if you're of a higher certification than the basic level. I've seen it first hand on more than one scene, where some good Samaritan Paramedic from the big city decided to stop and help a crash victim. When the ambulance showed up they got the bad luck of being sent one of the counties BLS units instead of one of the ALS ones. They have two options: abandoning their patient, or going for a 20 mile ride back in the direction they just came from.
    FWIW, many states don't consider an off-duty medic to be functionally anything but an EMT which relieves this problem. (i.e. an off-duty medic without a medic rig, ALS equipment, drugs, and medical control is just an EMT)

    Leave a comment:


  • DeputyMarshal
    replied
    Originally posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    This may prevail in most states:

    http://definitions.uslegal.com/g/good-samaritans/
    One thing to keep in mind is that "Good Samaritan" laws often don't apply to certified/licensed personnel. They're designed to protect John Q. Public -- not John Q. Responder. Off-duty Fire/EMS personnel may be protected by similar legislation but it's often seperate from "Good Samaritan" laws because the standard of care is higher.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeputyMarshal
    replied
    Originally posted by BrianB35 View Post
    Michigan is quite clear on responding so is NREMT. If you see something, you help. It's called a Duty to Act.
    "Duty to Act" has various meanings in various states. It very rarely applies to off-duty personnel. As for NREMT, it's a private agency with no legal authority.

    Leave a comment:


  • KanFireman
    replied
    Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
    In most cases, a duty to act means that you are on duty and in your response area if paid and "on-call" if you are a volunteer.

    Not true everywhere, but more common then not.
    Additionally you acquire a duty to act, if one didn't already exist, when you decide to stop and provide assistance. Which means halfway through the Fire/MVA/Medical you can't decide to pack up and go home. If you're out of district and the proper authorities show up and tell you that they've got this covered, then it's ok to leave because you're not abandoning your duty to act. You're merely transferring the responsibility to another entity.

    MVA and Medicals can be tricky if you're of a higher certification than the basic level. I've seen it first hand on more than one scene, where some good Samaritan Paramedic from the big city decided to stop and help a crash victim. When the ambulance showed up they got the bad luck of being sent one of the counties BLS units instead of one of the ALS ones. They have two options: abandoning their patient, or going for a 20 mile ride back in the direction they just came from.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChiefKN
    replied
    Originally posted by BrianB35 View Post
    Michigan is quite clear on responding so is NREMT. If you see something, you help. It's called a Duty to Act.
    In most cases, a duty to act means that you are on duty and in your response area if paid and "on-call" if you are a volunteer.

    Not true everywhere, but more common then not.

    Leave a comment:


  • CaptOldTimer
    replied
    This may prevail in most states:


    http://definitions.uslegal.com/g/good-samaritans/

    Leave a comment:

300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

Collapse

Upper 300x250

Collapse

Taboola

Collapse

Leader

Collapse
Working...
X