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  • #31
    Originally posted by tree68 View Post
    And I believe it is/was Vermont which required EMTs to place ID on their vehicle and to stop and render aid. Corrections/updates welcome.
    The way the law is written, if I interpret it correctly, requires everyone to render care.

    Originally posted by 12 V.S.A. § 519. Emergency medical care

    § 519. Emergency medical care

    (a) A person who knows that another is exposed to grave physical harm shall, to the extent that the same can be rendered without danger or peril to himself or without interference with important duties owed to others, give reasonable assistance to the exposed person unless that assistance or care is being provided by others.

    (b) A person who provides reasonable assistance in compliance with subsection (a) of this section shall not be liable in civil damages unless his acts constitute gross negligence or unless he will receive or expects to receive remuneration. Nothing contained in this subsection shall alter existing law with respect to tort liability of a practitioner of the healing arts for acts committed in the ordinary course of his practice.

    (c) A person who willfully violates subsection (a) of this section shall be fined not more than $100.00. (1967, No. 309 (Adj. Sess.), §§ 2-4, eff. March 22, 1968.)
    SOURCE: 12 V.S.A. § 519. Emergency medical care

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Acklan View Post
      The way the law is written, if I interpret it correctly, requires everyone to render care.



      SOURCE: 12 V.S.A. § 519. Emergency medical care
      This is what tripped up Jerry, George, Elaine and Kramer.
      I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

      "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

      "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

      Comment


      • #33
        Ok, I addressed what/how to do WHEN I stop to give aid. Now we want to discuss IF to give aid?

        My department training was (offduty, obviously) to bypass an incident (usual example is MVA), and just call 911. Both from a personal safety standpoint, and liability standpoint. No "duty to act", and good samaritan laws do release (some/most/all) liability when acting properly. But the way it was explained to me "anyone can be sued for anything; good samaritan laws don't keep you from being sued, they just help your defense; but if they don't know who you are because you didn't stop, you can't be sued."

        I generally only stop or render aid when the incident happens RIGHT in front of me, or it is so obviously fresh that 911 couldn't have been notified yet.
        Opinions expressed are mine alone, and do not necessarily reflect those of the Philadelphia Fire Department and/or IAFF Local 22.

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        • #34
          And it goes without saying, anytime you stop to render aid, make sure the scene is safe.
          FF/EMT

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          • #35
            Originally posted by mrpita View Post
            But the way it was explained to me "anyone can be sued for anything; good samaritan laws don't keep you from being sued, they just help your defense; but if they don't know who you are because you didn't stop, you can't be sued."
            The long and short of it is that people who are paranoid about being sued (a) shouldn't be in EMS or (b) should be extra careful not to screw up.
            "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
            sigpic
            The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

            Comment


            • #36
              Well.........

              If I see something, and there are no People/Apparatus there yet, I stop. I do what I can, and Advise the first person arriving from the Dept having jurisdiction of what I've done. If I'm needed, I'll stay and Help out, If not, I'm gone. For Fires, I always have PPE with me, For Accidents, etc, It's usually a Traffic Vest. Never had a problem with anyone, Police or Fire, anytime I've stopped. There was one Incident that was kinda funny though. I came up on a Van on Fire on a Interstate, about 125 miles from home. I pulled on my Coat, Gloves and Helment, and went to work with a 10lb. Dry Chem. A few minutes later, as I'm under the hood disconnecting the Battery, a Voice behind me says "Hi Harve, What ya Got??"........ You never know...
              Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
              In memory of
              Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
              Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

              IACOJ Budget Analyst

              I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

              www.gdvfd18.com

              Comment


              • #37
                Michigan is quite clear on responding so is NREMT. If you see something, you help. It's called a Duty to Act.

                I've come across several incidents from MVA's to boating accidents to allergric reactions in different locations, including PA, that are not in my area of reponse, but that doesn't matter. Since I'm a vollie we have the required lights I activate the rear and top ones and pull over to asssit. I also call 911 and tell them what has happened and who I am. When the department shows up I tell them what's going that and what I've done. I ask if they need my help and if not I say stay safe and have a nice day. I've only asked for gloves to replace the ones I keep with me.



                Originally posted by thomas15 View Post
                This is true in my state also. On my pov (truck) I have a fire co license plate on the front but nothing else identifying me as a firefighter or EMT. If I can stop I will but sometimes you can't. You cannot abandon a patient once you start. Since I run QRS and on those calls I respond in regular clothes, it has become a habit to identify myself as an EMT to the patients and family/friends. Sometimes though you have to speak up loudly. I responded to a code at a park with a swimming beach. One of my fellow QRS was doing compressions when I got there. I had to fight my way through the crowd with my AED and etc. At one point I was practically screaming at the crowd, they did move but quickly resumed their gawking activity.

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                • #38
                  This may prevail in most states:


                  http://definitions.uslegal.com/g/good-samaritans/
                  Stay Safe and Well Out There....

                  Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by BrianB35 View Post
                    Michigan is quite clear on responding so is NREMT. If you see something, you help. It's called a Duty to Act.
                    In most cases, a duty to act means that you are on duty and in your response area if paid and "on-call" if you are a volunteer.

                    Not true everywhere, but more common then not.
                    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                      In most cases, a duty to act means that you are on duty and in your response area if paid and "on-call" if you are a volunteer.

                      Not true everywhere, but more common then not.
                      Additionally you acquire a duty to act, if one didn't already exist, when you decide to stop and provide assistance. Which means halfway through the Fire/MVA/Medical you can't decide to pack up and go home. If you're out of district and the proper authorities show up and tell you that they've got this covered, then it's ok to leave because you're not abandoning your duty to act. You're merely transferring the responsibility to another entity.

                      MVA and Medicals can be tricky if you're of a higher certification than the basic level. I've seen it first hand on more than one scene, where some good Samaritan Paramedic from the big city decided to stop and help a crash victim. When the ambulance showed up they got the bad luck of being sent one of the counties BLS units instead of one of the ALS ones. They have two options: abandoning their patient, or going for a 20 mile ride back in the direction they just came from.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by BrianB35 View Post
                        Michigan is quite clear on responding so is NREMT. If you see something, you help. It's called a Duty to Act.
                        "Duty to Act" has various meanings in various states. It very rarely applies to off-duty personnel. As for NREMT, it's a private agency with no legal authority.
                        "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
                        sigpic
                        The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
                          This may prevail in most states:

                          http://definitions.uslegal.com/g/good-samaritans/
                          One thing to keep in mind is that "Good Samaritan" laws often don't apply to certified/licensed personnel. They're designed to protect John Q. Public -- not John Q. Responder. Off-duty Fire/EMS personnel may be protected by similar legislation but it's often seperate from "Good Samaritan" laws because the standard of care is higher.
                          "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
                          sigpic
                          The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by KanFireman View Post
                            MVA and Medicals can be tricky if you're of a higher certification than the basic level. I've seen it first hand on more than one scene, where some good Samaritan Paramedic from the big city decided to stop and help a crash victim. When the ambulance showed up they got the bad luck of being sent one of the counties BLS units instead of one of the ALS ones. They have two options: abandoning their patient, or going for a 20 mile ride back in the direction they just came from.
                            FWIW, many states don't consider an off-duty medic to be functionally anything but an EMT which relieves this problem. (i.e. an off-duty medic without a medic rig, ALS equipment, drugs, and medical control is just an EMT)
                            "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
                            sigpic
                            The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
                              FWIW, many states don't consider an off-duty medic to be functionally anything but an EMT which relieves this problem. (i.e. an off-duty medic without a medic rig, ALS equipment, drugs, and medical control is just an EMT)
                              Assuming the transport is BLS, it might be as easy as a call to medical control. If they agree it's BLS, the ALS provider is off the hook. We do that here often enough.

                              Oftimes a BLS rig is just exactly that - no ALS equipment, meds, etc. And even if the bus itself is stocked for ALS, odds are a responder who doesn't run with that squad won't have access to the necessary tools.

                              I'm only ALS in my region in NYS. I have to be recognized by another region (and be up on their protocols, which may or may not be the same as ours) before I can practice at that level in their area.
                              Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                              Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Exactly. .lol I.D. Cards or Badges wouldnt take up space and they have the same amount of authority as your bunker gear. Also if lost, you can replace badges or an i.d tag way quicker and cheaper than a turnout coat, vest, etc.

                                Comment

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