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Why you don't need lights!

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  • #31
    Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Last year, I had a conversation with a couple of our volunteers about lights in the parking lot of the station.

    It got heated.

    Towards the end he said "if you take the lights way, we'll lose a lot of people because that is one of the things that attracts them to this".

    We don't need lights. It's really that simple.
    Unfortunately I've seen this too. While everything else is minor to them, if you tell them they can't do an emergency response in their private vehicle the crap hits the fan and they threaten to quit. Stomp out the door like a 3 year old.

    If driving lights and siren in a POV is the most important thing to an individual, them maybe that person needs to re-think themselves and what they offer the department.
    We do not rise to the occasion. We fall back to our level of training.

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    • #32
      We are in the midst of dealing with this issue.. We've ALWAYS had to deal with it. There seems to be a contingent of FF wannabees out there that are more concerned w/ tee shirts and Blue lights than learning and living the craft.

      Second Dept. I was on had a probie FF running blue down cornfield country roads and blew a stop. He majorly hurt some folks who had right of way.
      I look back on that for inspiration to do the right thing.

      It is a COURTESY light in Indiana. It does not exempt the operator from normal traffic laws. Personally, I don't use one. I get there in roughly the same amount of time.
      A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

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      • #33
        Originally posted by natedog54 View Post
        Not really. I carry a knife, never stabbed anyone. Carry a firearm as well, never shot anyone...
        To add to this, I think Minnesota has some of the stricter laws regarding the use of lights in POV's, short of not allowing anything at all. In MN, the law allows 1 red light facing forward on your dash that needs to burn steady, no flashing. This light is a courtesy light only, all traffic laws need to be obeyed.

        You need authorization from your chief to have one. But, you would have a difficult time finding any firefighters that use them. I'm 32 years old, and I've never seen one used before, anywhere, ever, in MN.

        That being said, do I think they're a bad idea? Not if people go through the proper training, and have a clean driving history. As MN's law stands, I don't think it would get anyone to their stations any quicker, so there's no reason to have'em IMHO. Of course, I can only speak for MN, and our laws as they currently stand.
        natedog54
        Forum Member
        Last edited by natedog54; 07-07-2010, 12:21 AM.

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        • #34
          I work for a carrier department. We have a frequent flyer that we respond to on a regular basis; it’s about 4 miles from the station. After about the 13th time running code to find that the kingfisher had coded in a false alarm to dispatch with no strobes and no audible upon arrival we timed the response running code 3. 4 hours later we ran to the same building with the same false alarm, at a time with a higher traffic volume code 1 that we timed as well. The difference between Code 3 and Code 1 with heavier traffic was 7.9 seconds.

          EDIT - carrier for career - DAMN you spell check!!!
          VincentEng2
          Forum Member
          Last edited by VincentEng2; 07-07-2010, 12:45 AM.

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          • #35
            I have one problem with this whole incident. If his passenger was playing with the lights, what was the vehicle driving in the wrong lane. It's not like once the lights and sirens turn on, the vehicle is automatically compelled to speed and drive in the opposite lane. I fully support the investigating authorities decision to punish this individual for their abuse of authority.

            If anybody had ever decided to play with the lights in my vehicle first I would, while maintaining my lane and continuing to drive the speed limit, tell them to turn them off. If they didn't I would reach down under my steering wheel and hit my master switch, and pull over at the next available opportunity slap the heck out of my passenger and inform them that this is the last time they are allowed to ride in this vehicle. The only point in my life where I might not have done that would have been when I was 16 and too immature to be allowed behind the wheel of a vehicle with lights and sirens anyway.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by DFDMAXX View Post
              Unfortunately I've seen this too. While everything else is minor to them, if you tell them they can't do an emergency response in their private vehicle the crap hits the fan and they threaten to quit. Stomp out the door like a 3 year old.
              As bad as we need volunteers I would tell this person to hit the bricks. If anyone ever came to me and said if this don't happen I will quit (safety concerns are different) they might as well of saved they're breath because I would quickly say "quit then."

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              • #37
                thats nothing on bluelights just a cpl of idiots theyd killed some body some other way sooner or later nothing wrong w bulelights they help!!!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by BSFD9302 View Post
                  As bad as we need volunteers I would tell this person to hit the bricks. If anyone ever came to me and said if this don't happen I will quit (safety concerns are different) they might as well of saved they're breath because I would quickly say "quit then."
                  You're preaching to the choir here. Only I'm less diplomatic when dealing with grown men who insist on whining and crying.
                  We do not rise to the occasion. We fall back to our level of training.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by BSFD9302 View Post
                    As bad as we need volunteers I would tell this person to hit the bricks. If anyone ever came to me and said if this don't happen I will quit (safety concerns are different) they might as well of saved they're breath because I would quickly say "quit then."
                    Interesting story:

                    Just yesterday I had a volunteer in his POV get aggravated because we were paving in front of his place of employment. So the textbook wacker turns on all his red and white lights thinking we would all just magically vanish. I spoke with this snotty attitude filled individual to confirm there was no emergency, then walked away.

                    He didn't know I'm a firefighter, and he certainly didn't know that I WORK WITH HIS CAPTAIN.

                    His career might expire sooner than he thought.
                    We do not rise to the occasion. We fall back to our level of training.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Good?

                      Originally posted by DFDMAXX View Post
                      Interesting story:

                      Just yesterday I had a volunteer in his POV get aggravated because we were paving in front of his place of employment. So the textbook wacker turns on all his red and white lights thinking we would all just magically vanish. I spoke with this snotty attitude filled individual to confirm there was no emergency, then walked away.

                      He didn't know I'm a firefighter, and he certainly didn't know that I WORK WITH HIS CAPTAIN.

                      His career might expire sooner than he thought.
                      If what you say is true, then I say "Good. We don't need people like that in the volunteer ranks.". It's people like that that give volunteers a bad name. Especially those that might incorrectly try to use this example as why lights are a bad idea.. I have a chill running through my thought about any department that would let that individual operate department vehicles (Not following SOP's).

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by XRaysJL View Post
                        If what you say is true, then I say "Good. We don't need people like that in the volunteer ranks.". It's people like that that give volunteers a bad name. Especially those that might incorrectly try to use this example as why lights are a bad idea.. I have a chill running through my thought about any department that would let that individual operate department vehicles (Not following SOP's).


                        Yes it is true. I've seen enough examples of jack-assery with lights on a pov that I don't need to make anything up to have a story. Wanna swap stories? We'll go a lot more pages.

                        One problem I see with volunteers having lights in my area ( I don't know about other areas ) is that very little training or SOP's are given about how to drive or act with those emergency lights and the consequences of misbehavior; be it legal, departmental, or other things like your insurance co. dropping you.

                        It's a problem we won't see resolved anytime soon.
                        We do not rise to the occasion. We fall back to our level of training.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Driving SOP's

                          Originally posted by DFDMAXX View Post
                          Yes it is true. I've seen enough examples of jack-assery with lights on a pov that I don't need to make anything up to have a story. Wanna swap stories? We'll go a lot more pages.

                          One problem I see with volunteers having lights in my area ( I don't know about other areas ) is that very little training or SOP's are given about how to drive or act with those emergency lights and the consequences of misbehavior; be it legal, departmental, or other things like your insurance co. dropping you.

                          It's a problem we won't see resolved anytime soon.
                          I agree. I just shake my head when I see & hear stuff like that. It's examples like those that the general public and paid departments (Even though paid departments have bad drivers too) look at the volunteers and say, "Do you even know what you're doing?". And there are times where I'd agree with those assessments.

                          I don't encourage responding POV (Regardless of lights). But I do realize that each department MUST determine whether or not they have a need for POV response. If so, then they have the responsibility of forming and enforcing SOP's..

                          My department: We don't encourage it but because of the situation where we are we realize there is a need for "some" to respond POV. My department has a close working relationship with the local law enforcement agencies (Highway Patrol, Sherrifs, and Police). We provide driving training (With department vehicles and POV's) and we continually monitor/observe the POV response with and without lights and take action accordingly. My department is new (2nd year anniversary coming up) and we don't want inappropriate POV's giving us a bad name.

                          I agree and think this problem will always be here and the debate will never end. I also think that we will always have those individuals who think the way they do things at their department should be done by all departments.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by XRaysJL View Post
                            I don't encourage responding POV (Regardless of lights). But I do realize that each department MUST determine whether or not they have a need for POV response. If so, then they have the responsibility of forming and enforcing SOP's..
                            If by the above you mean POV to the scene, then I agree. Otherwise, how else do you get to the station? POH(orse)?
                            So you call this your free country
                            Tell me why it costs so much to live
                            -3dd

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by XRaysJL View Post
                              I don't encourage responding POV (Regardless of lights).
                              Not to be a ****ant here, but how do you expect me to get to the station? Walk? Take a bus? We don't man our station 24/7. We all respond from home or our place of business. The vast majority respond to the station, the chiefs usually go to the scene.
                              Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                              Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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                              • #45
                                Exactlly!!!!!

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