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  • FireFarrier
    replied
    Originally posted by knowsnothing View Post
    I have to agree with CTJAKE. If I was called to a fire in the small hours of the morning and was working with a bunch of fella's that didn't question and and ask "why are we doing this?" and is this "right?" I would be nervous, this is a thread that has to be woven in from the start.

    The fire service was explained to me by a mentor as being a paramilitary structure only. I've been to boot camp and we had a few yellers, it usually just masked their inability to teach. BUT on occasion it did provide motivation to the unmotivated or it burnt through the fog when they were unsure. Some were bent out of shape, but the reality is if you can't deal with people getting excited without having a complete sob fest the FF service is not for you. Thick skin is essential.

    To the OP, good luck. Remember understanding the culture of the fire service and LIVING with the people in it is as important as the job. No Gel = no Team = get a different job.

    cheers,

    j
    Holy thread ressurrection, batman. This thread is four years old man.

    Leave a comment:


  • knowsnothing
    replied
    I have to agree with CTJAKE. If I was called to a fire in the small hours of the morning and was working with a bunch of fella's that didn't question and and ask "why are we doing this?" and is this "right?" I would be nervous, this is a thread that has to be woven in from the start.

    The fire service was explained to me by a mentor as being a paramilitary structure only. I've been to boot camp and we had a few yellers, it usually just masked their inability to teach. BUT on occasion it did provide motivation to the unmotivated or it burnt through the fog when they were unsure. Some were bent out of shape, but the reality is if you can't deal with people getting excited without having a complete sob fest the FF service is not for you. Thick skin is essential.

    To the OP, good luck. Remember understanding the culture of the fire service and LIVING with the people in it is as important as the job. No Gel = no Team = get a different job.

    cheers,

    j

    Leave a comment:


  • jccrabby3084
    replied
    First of all...take a deep breath, calm down everybody. There is absolutely NO reason to degrade another FF. These forums are not for arguing back and forth and name calling. For crying out loud show some respect to each other. We are all on this job for one reason or another, but the most common reason is to help others. That is what these forums are for.

    First to redtroy...thanks for getting back to the thread and updating what is going on. I'm glad to hear things are working out for you and I hope you get on the job soon.

    Mattc05.....I agree with you that the only time there was any yelling in the academy was for safety issues...and that was just to draw attention. The academy is to prepare someone for the fireground...not the firehouse. In the firehouse you always have ribbing going on one way or another...either you take it in stride or learn to get a sense of humor. But breaking down in an academy is not the right way to do this.

    King....again, there is no need for name calling or degrading. If you don't agree with something, give an alternative or a reason you don't agree. There is no need to make assumptions on somebody because of a post. You did that to me saying I couldn't do the job, which is why I sent my reply before. I hope no one else will ever have to experience that. I was trying to help another brother on this forum...which is what I hope everyones intentions are. Also...BTW...Polecats avatar says he is from B.C. British Columbia....whole other side of the country from predominately French speaking Quebec.

    Polecat....I appreciate your input and suggestions....I just don't agree with you that a fire academy should be run like a boot camp. Really the only similarities between the military and fire service is chain of command, following orders and cleaning. I was in the service before being a FF, the reason I don't agree with yelling to breakdown in a fire academy is:

    1..The military, everyone is in bootcamp for a little while, then go to their schooling and duty station...everyone has a different reason to be in. The reason for the yelling and demeaning is to break you down and build you back up their way.

    The fire service...most everyone has the same reason for being in and many operations are similar to given areas. Also there is no reason to break you down...everyone already wants to be a FF. Leave it to the crew to do that, and if you don't like one crew, there are other stations and shifts.

    2..If in an academy...chances are you already went through a weeding out process. written exam, physical agility, interviews, backgrounds and so on. So typically speaking you have the best candidates already in the academy...no reason to break them down. Just teach them the way your dept operates. The only time to yell is to get attention and usually that is a quick shout.

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  • kingofdahill
    replied
    Originally posted by polecat View Post
    Offering Constructive Critizism Is One Thing, But For An Obvious Wannabe Like Yourself, To Degrade Anybody, Is Offside.
    If You Wish To Continue To Be An Arrogant Mouth-piece, Then Have The Balls To Identify Who You Are.
    It's Funny, I Pictured A User With The Name Kingofdahill, To Be An Esteemed Member From Washington,d.c., Not Some Flamer With Nothing Better To Do Than Slag A Dedicated Recruit.
    Well that would figure some French Flamer would stick up for guys crying about getting yelled at in the academy. The best is they were probably just getting their point across in a stern way. like I said if you cant handle that then you have problems. Then I remembered you frenchies have a reputation for being afraid and giving in. why do you think the fire service has a semi- military style to it? Because just like if in the military they want guys that are not going to break under a little pressure. So if an academy instructor yells at you for doing something STUPID you come on here asking do you have what it takes. What did you expect to hear oh hang in there sweetheart they will not yell at you. I'm sure if you do something stupid in the field that yelling in the academy will seem like a picnic to what you would really hear. Grow some balls you cry baby freaks sticking up and sugar coating everything.
    Last edited by kingofdahill; 02-12-2007, 12:25 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • mattc05
    replied
    Only time the instructors would yell at my academy was during burn days if you were doing something stupid. It's more a life safety issue than a discipline issue.

    Leave a comment:


  • polecat
    replied
    Bobby Hill

    Offering Constructive Critizism Is One Thing, But For An Obvious Wannabe Like Yourself, To Degrade Anybody, Is Offside.
    If You Wish To Continue To Be An Arrogant Mouth-piece, Then Have The Balls To Identify Who You Are.
    It's Funny, I Pictured A User With The Name Kingofdahill, To Be An Esteemed Member From Washington,d.c., Not Some Flamer With Nothing Better To Do Than Slag A Dedicated Recruit.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofdahill
    replied
    Originally posted by redtroy View Post
    So heres the follow up. I spoke with one of the instructors and they said they were actually very shocked to hear that I felt that way because I have taken all their harassement in good stride. He explained the same thing some of you have hit on here and that is that they want to prepare us for what a dept training will be like. If we can't handle their harassement then we prob would never be able to handle the dept training or let alone the job. I explained to him that I knew that this is why they prob were but that I felt as though it is hard to learn things with that approach. He said he is surprised I felt that way because in all honesty all the instructors have been very impressed with me so far. I have done great with all practicals, tests ect and that he didn't feel as though I needed any extra help, whereas he explained that with some of the students they do try and take things a lil slower with them to try and catch them up to speed. I feel a lil better now that I talked to him. So just to clarify to some of you out there...mostly kingofdahill...I am not whining about anything. I simply am using these forums as a resource to get advice from other PROFESSIONALS so I don't end up going and doing something stupid. If people here didn't ask concerning qustions then others wouldn't waste their time reading and responding. Now I did decide to go back through and read some of your posts and their was no surprise to find out that most of yours are all negative. I also found this on one of your posts.............


    FROM kingofdahill POST...
    kanoobs whats your deal? You said you had your medical today yet your 300 guys over me. On top of that some of your other posts don't match up either. For example you stated in your posts that you had your initial interview way back on august 7. Then I read where you just handed in everything in novemeber. Which one was it? Again I had my interview in late august I just cant see how your jumping ahead of everyone with everything.I have my medical scheduled for early feb. and guys in the 3,800 are just going next week. Even if they were just filling spots in the medical there are alot of guys that would have to refuse it before they got to the 4,400's especially when someone in the higher 4,200's was asking about dates so that he could estimate when he could be called. I hope your being truthful with us throughout this process with posting good info and not bullsh**.



    Now kingofdahill it sounds like your still waiting to get hired. In the future if you don't have something intelligent to post on one of my threads you should stop and create a post a thread of your own with the topic being.... Would a dept hire a dumbass.
    Waiting, but on the job already. Grow up and go back to stocking your shelves because if your on a forum asking if you got it? guess what you dont. let go of your mommies apron and handle it. Would a Dept. handle a dumbass? You should ask your dept. that because they obviously hired a cry baby who cant handle the academy better yet the job. So yeah A dept. would hire a dumbass they already did . YOU. Have fun and dry your tears.

    Leave a comment:


  • redtroy
    replied
    So heres the follow up. I spoke with one of the instructors and they said they were actually very shocked to hear that I felt that way because I have taken all their harassement in good stride. He explained the same thing some of you have hit on here and that is that they want to prepare us for what a dept training will be like. If we can't handle their harassement then we prob would never be able to handle the dept training or let alone the job. I explained to him that I knew that this is why they prob were but that I felt as though it is hard to learn things with that approach. He said he is surprised I felt that way because in all honesty all the instructors have been very impressed with me so far. I have done great with all practicals, tests ect and that he didn't feel as though I needed any extra help, whereas he explained that with some of the students they do try and take things a lil slower with them to try and catch them up to speed. I feel a lil better now that I talked to him. So just to clarify to some of you out there...mostly kingofdahill...I am not whining about anything. I simply am using these forums as a resource to get advice from other PROFESSIONALS so I don't end up going and doing something stupid. If people here didn't ask concerning qustions then others wouldn't waste their time reading and responding. Now I did decide to go back through and read some of your posts and their was no surprise to find out that most of yours are all negative. I also found this on one of your posts.............


    FROM kingofdahill POST...
    kanoobs whats your deal? You said you had your medical today yet your 300 guys over me. On top of that some of your other posts don't match up either. For example you stated in your posts that you had your initial interview way back on august 7. Then I read where you just handed in everything in novemeber. Which one was it? Again I had my interview in late august I just cant see how your jumping ahead of everyone with everything.I have my medical scheduled for early feb. and guys in the 3,800 are just going next week. Even if they were just filling spots in the medical there are alot of guys that would have to refuse it before they got to the 4,400's especially when someone in the higher 4,200's was asking about dates so that he could estimate when he could be called. I hope your being truthful with us throughout this process with posting good info and not bullsh**.



    Now kingofdahill it sounds like your still waiting to get hired. In the future if you don't have something intelligent to post on one of my threads you should stop and create a post a thread of your own with the topic being.... Would a dept hire a dumbass.

    Leave a comment:


  • jccrabby3084
    replied
    Originally posted by kingofdahill View Post
    You come on a forum for advice and advice is what you got. You dont like it then try else where. Going through a death is hard but then again if you been through hell why would you be on here worried that your being yelled at. Seems pretty petty to whine about this stuff (yelling) if you went through tragedy where someone paid the ultimate price.
    King....go back and read the posts...I am not the one that started this....I am not the one looking for advice here. I was one that gave some advice. Someone else did not agree with that, stated a recruit class should be run like a boot camp...I disagreed with that and then that is where you came in. You looked at a response I gave and decided to comment on that. So why don't you look at the whole forum before commenting on a single post. The person who was actually looking for advice has not responded.

    I personally did not have instructors yelling during either one of my recruit academies, one for school and one for on the job. It is one thing to get the attention of a recruit, but to yell is not the idea. Really who is the one that looks like a fool? the one yelling, or the one being yelled at. Instructors are there to teach...if you are having trouble, you go through it again. That is why there is a testing phase...if you don't pass a test...then you don't pass the course. To yell as a way of "weeding" people out is wrong. You can say in a stearn voice to pay attention, or draw attention to a safety issue. To yell is not the proper way to teach. To yell like a drill sergeant is not the way to train....the fire service is paramilitary (like military) not the military.

    You praise in public and reprimand in private.....any good officer or instructor would know to do this.

    So I would say go back and look at the one who actually created the post...then you can see how we got to here.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofdahill
    replied
    You come on a forum for advice and advice is what you got. You dont like it then try else where. Going through a death is hard but then again if you been through hell why would you be on here worried that your being yelled at. Seems pretty petty to whine about this stuff (yelling) if you went through tragedy where someone paid the ultimate price.

    Leave a comment:


  • jccrabby3084
    replied
    Originally posted by kingofdahill View Post
    Take a deep breath and dry your tears. If you can't handle a little yelling at the academy your never gonna handle it when things go to shi*. You really need to look into another job because it sounds like you can't handle or want any pressure on yourself. This profession is not a joke or like some movie you may have seen. If being called a "whiner" hurts your feelings then your going to be in for a brutal career.
    BTW...I was there when things really went to shi*....and one of my brothers did not come home..There was no yelling on the fireground then. Do you really, truly know what it is like? when conditions are that bad, that intense, and you still perform. Every thread in your body telling you no...stay out, yet your training kicks in and you do you job...any other time you pull out and go defensive...but now a FF is down, screaming for his life and you are his only hope. You get one FF out, but he is still there...you still have to go in. Do you know what it is like being told now you have to pull out...to know he is gone and all your efforts couldn't get him out, being so physically and mentally drained. Do you know what it is like to sift through the rubble, just to bring him home? There is NO bigger lesson out there than that.

    THAT IS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. I DON'T WANT TO SEE THIS AGAIN...AND I DON'T WANT ANYONE ELSE TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS.
    Now go ahead...call me a whiner, weak or what have you. And NO I will not dry my tears...he deserved more, but this is what is left...the tears and memories!

    Leave a comment:


  • jccrabby3084
    replied
    King...if you would go back and read the last few posts by Troy...who started this thread, you would see some of the reason for my posts. He makes it sound as though the instructors are yelling all the time, calling the recruits failures, and even threatning a chance at a job at them. To me he seemed confused, concerned, and wnated to know what to do.

    If you go up to an instructor, ask advice or input, and all you get is yelled at is not training. As I put out in those other posts I was asking what type of training he was in....so far I have not seen his posts since.

    To me....if you pay to get an education and go to a fire academy through a tech school setting...you have the right to a quality education. If you are being called failures, yelled at like a drill seargent, and threatened by instructors that they can make it that you won't get a job...then this is not teaching. Most people paying at a tech school level have NO fire experience. They are getting an education to pursue some type of career, be it paid or volunteer. Once AFFILIATED with a dept...then the training can be more strict because you have to learn their way. Most departments will do their own training academy for new personnel, at that point, you should know better.

    Now not every fire department takes people with fire experience and will do their own training...to yell and "weed out the weak" is not training. If you are in an academy then you should have already been through a written test, Physical agilty, interviews (several), and background. The "weak" should already have been weeded through. The dept now has an investment into you.

    Now I don't know what your idea of yelling and my idea of yelling is. When posted that the academy should be run like a boot camp, I picture a drill seargent type instructor screaming in you face, calling you a failure, etc, then drop you. There is no need for that type of mentality in the fire service. Now if you have been taught a task (say putting up a roof ladder off an extension) and consistently do it wrong or if there is a safety issue then to shout to get attention is fine. If it is consistently wrong then there is a learning issue and then you stop and go through the evolution step by step. To yell at that point is useless...then you just have a FF not wanting to get yelled at and may not look for other hazards or the attention to detail is not there.
    That is why you TEST then...if come test day and you can not successfully complete the evolution...you don't pass. That is why you train and teach...not yell. Teach the recruit how to pass...if they can't...you did what you could, what is yelling going to do?

    That is what I'm getting at....If you want to sit there and pass judgement on me, call me weak or whatever then that is your perogative. You don't know me, my department, or my record...you are simply passing judgement off a post. Everyone here is on the job in some form, or want to be part of the job...there is no reason to disrespect anyone.

    I'll end here with what Jay Jonas said (FDNY...Capt of Ladder 6) when in the WTC. "When things start get get bad...I lower my voice and speak in a calm tone so everyone can understand. That day was the most calm I have ever been. There is no reason to yell and add to the confusion."

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofdahill
    replied
    I agree with you 100% and said the same thing in my post. Play the game. they yell you listen, they yell more you listen more.The way I see it this line of work requires you to handle a great deal of stress how much you can take and what will break you is what they try to show you along with teaching you the job. If just the yelling is getting too much then it won't take too much before you break. Thats why most academies are like mini boot camps.

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  • CTJAKE
    replied
    My advice: Dont take the yelling personal. If you read his first post, he is worried about some of his past experiences, and is worried they are targeting him. Based on what you have said, I dont think they are aiming this at you. Dont read into what they are saying. Do what they ask, as well as you can, and you'll be fine.
    Last edited by CTJAKE; 02-11-2007, 11:24 AM.

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  • kingofdahill
    replied
    well jake give this fine candidate some advice. Did your instructors not yell at your academy? I never claimed to know it all about academies or the fire service in general but if a guy comes on and starts stating stuff like I don't know why they have to yell? would you feel good with this guy behind you while your advancing a hoseline down a hallway and things go to shi*. This guy cant even handle yelling better yet that.What are ya going to do tell him "excuse me but you may wanna get out of here please." I doubt it your going to get your point across and politely is sometimes not the way to do it. Maybe it works for you but I bet if you went to any academy in this country you will find that they do it to get the point across. Not to be personal like this guy is taking it.

    I'm not getting bent out of shape. I dont answer personal questions on forums. you know how to e-mail. Maybe some of what I say comes across as hard or not what you wanna hear but i won't lie to you either and say yelling is not part of the job. Your not always in the best enviorment to be polite.
    Last edited by kingofdahill; 02-11-2007, 10:41 AM.

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