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  • Military Article 15

    hey all,

    i am officer in the army and will be getting out of the military in the next couple of months. i recently (last summer) got an article 15 for fraternization. It was a gigantic mistake and something that I deeply regret. I will be getting out of the army in the next few months to pursue my life long dream of becoming a FF. Up until the Article 15, I have had a stellar Army career and unfortunately is the only blemish on my record. I have worked hard on preparing to become a FF (EMT, FF 1 and 2, Fire Science degree, staying fit, studying for written and oral boards). I am not getting kicked out of the Army ( I am getting out because my commitment is up) I will be getting an honorable discharge from the Army. Is an Article 15 something that is found out on a background check? If so, what impact will that have on my chances of getting a FF job? Is it something I should volunteer up front? Former military guys: What military records are dug up on a background check? Any help/info/advice you guys can send my way is appreciated.

  • #2
    An Article 15 is the military equivalent of a misdemeanor. It is titled non-judicial punishment. It would depend upon the local jurisdiction as to the depth of the background investigation and if misdemeanors are looked at.

    Your case would not have been an offense in the civilian community so I would hope that it would not be considered. You may have to explain what fraternization is because of it being a UCMJ Article.

    Note to those who are wondering: Fraternization is the “dating” between military members where one is a commissioned officer and the other is an enlisted member. The charges are normally levied against the officer. The closest civilian equivalent would be a manager dating a subordinate.

    I am retired military and also served some time as a First Sergeant. Unfortunately I had to deal with several of these situations.

    The Article 15 should not be a roadblock. Good luck on your future career.

    Stay Safe
    IACOJ

    Comment


    • #3
      No worries, many of us have been called on the carpet, captain's mast, or what ever, including me. It was never an issue during the background or physic eval.
      On add: I don't beleive it was ever found on the background. I was able to maintain a decent clearance level and I think that is all the further they went.
      Last edited by SPFDRum; 12-06-2006, 11:22 AM. Reason: added comment
      My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
      "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
      George Mason
      Co-author of the Second Amendment
      during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
      Elevator Rescue Information

      Comment


      • #4
        Will it turn up on the background? Depends on how intensive they are, or
        if someone contacts them and tells them.

        Your best bet is to be HONEST AND UPFRONT about it. If you are, I can't imagine anyone would have an issue with it. If you give them a reason to believe that you MAY have tried to hide it, then you are screwed....

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SPFDRum
          It was never an issue during the background or physic eval.
          Who did yours? Mistress Cloe? Sorry, couldn't let that one go by.

          Now the issue at hand: Yes, be honest and upfront about it. It WILL come up. (No pun intended there.)

          On most if not all background paperwork to be filled out, there will be a section asking about any Non-Judicial Punishment. If you don't reveal it and WHEN the investigator finds out about it, you will be out.

          You have the Honorable Discharge lined up, so that says a lot about you as well, sir.

          Good luck,
          bam

          Comment


          • #6
            I did disclose it, and it was in my background packet, but like I said, it was never an issue. They didn't bring it up and I sure wasn't going to volunteer any info!
            I agree with bam, it's the Honorable Discharge that's important. Now if you where being discharged with an OTH or big chicken diner, then you may have a little tougher row to hoe...
            My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
            "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
            George Mason
            Co-author of the Second Amendment
            during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
            Elevator Rescue Information

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mtdffwannabe
              hey all,

              i am officer in the army and will be getting out of the military in the next couple of months. i recently (last summer) got an article 15 for fraternization. It was a gigantic mistake and something that I deeply regret. I will be getting out of the army in the next few months to pursue my life long dream of becoming a FF. Up until the Article 15, I have had a stellar Army career and unfortunately is the only blemish on my record. I have worked hard on preparing to become a FF (EMT, FF 1 and 2, Fire Science degree, staying fit, studying for written and oral boards). I am not getting kicked out of the Army ( I am getting out because my commitment is up) I will be getting an honorable discharge from the Army. Is an Article 15 something that is found out on a background check? If so, what impact will that have on my chances of getting a FF job? Is it something I should volunteer up front? Former military guys: What military records are dug up on a background check? Any help/info/advice you guys can send my way is appreciated.
              Red flags:
              College-educated, Commissioned Officers of the Armed Forces don't write like this.
              Army is capitalized. Any Soldier knows this.
              Honorable Discharge... not many enlisteds know this, but Officers are not given discharges. They simply slip away into the active or inactive Reserve, or resign their commissions.

              I call BS 6 ways from Sunday.

              I was a Moderator on Military.com for more than a year... I've had plenty of interactions with Officers and NCOs from all services, and believe me--this post (and poster) has none of the characteristics of any real Officer or NCO I've met or served with.
              My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

              IACOJ--West Coast PITA

              Comment


              • #8
                1141man: Judges ruling- Good Call.
                Lets see if they come back and dispute the ruling.
                My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
                "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
                George Mason
                Co-author of the Second Amendment
                during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
                Elevator Rescue Information

                Comment


                • #9
                  1141man:

                  Does being a moderator on a military bulletin board make you an expert on all things military? Guess what, I am an Officer in the USAF and there are Honorable, Dis-Honorable, etc discharges for Officers. How do I know this? Because I just got an honorable discharge. And, who cares if things are capitalized or mis-spelled? This is a freakin bulletin board, not a spelling and grammatical contest. One of the most experience and well respected contributors to this board (Capt Bob) mis-spells all the time. You gonna give him crap too? Go **** up a rope.


                  FFwannabe: Bottom line, be honest about it. Your issue shouldn't be an issue, as long as you are truthful. I know a couple of guys (officers) who have screwed their military careers due to Article 15s but have gone on to have very successful civilian careers. Military and civilian law are two different things, you wouldn't get punished for something like this in the civilian world so it shouldn't be a big factor. Good luck.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks to the guys who provided helpful information. Like I said, the Army has been good to me, but my dream is to be a fire fighter. All I wanted to know is how much that issue would get in the way. Thanks again.

                    For the doubters, come have a cold beer with me sometime and I'll show you 3 different dog tags from 3 different troops of mine who died in Iraq defending freedom so you can run your mouth off.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Easy!!

                      B52...Calm down. Its easy for someone to sit back and throw mud at some one from afar. You know what you did and have done. We are (most of us) are here to help not disparage someone's service. I'm a product of L.A. City schooling and English wasn't my best subject either. So what....lets move on and try to help not hender here. I'm in for the cold beer and trade some stories. I too have six very good friends that are on "The Wall" and would love to tell you about them.
                      Respectfully,
                      Jay Dudley
                      Retired Fire
                      Background Investigator
                      IACOJ-Member
                      Lifetime Member CSFA
                      IAFF Alumni Member

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well we have a disputed ruling. Not ever having been an officer in the military, I don't know what an officers final discharge is. But he came here, made the point and I will take that on face value and believe him. That aside, as I said before, the Honorable Discharge is what seals the deal for me, welcome Brother and good luck.
                        My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
                        "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
                        George Mason
                        Co-author of the Second Amendment
                        during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
                        Elevator Rescue Information

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          hey, i'm not the one doubting the guy's service, just trying to help out. i get a little amped up when the spelling and grammatical police start squaking. who cares right?

                          I second what SPFD said (man the vikes suck don't they? Fellow Minnie boy here), the guy is getting an Honorable and as long as he is up front about what happened he should be alright. I wouldn't take too much advice from me though, I haven't been hired by anyone yet, but honesty is always the best policy. Former military guys, who have been hired can provied a lot more insight. Like BCLepore said in the post about the misdemeanor; people make mistakes. Be a man about it, admit it, recover and overcome. Like I said though, I'm just a FNG, so listen to the OFGs, especially former military OFGs for ultimate guidance.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            From my experience, getting a NJP shouldn't be too much of a hinderance. Most entities can't get into someone's military records. I liked my first article 15 so much I went back and got another! I still got out with an honorable discharge though, and all I have ever had to show was a copy of my DD214 to prove it and get veterans points. I still was able to maintain my security clearance as well. If asked, I would bring it up. If you aren't asked, I wouldn't say anything more about it. As was mentioned before, civilian law is a much different animal than military law where one can get punished for a multitude of things that would never be imagined by a "normal" civilian. So, I would carry on and not worry too much about it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I recently got out of the Air Force and was an agent with the office of Special Investigations and used to run backround checks. I'm here to tell you that an Article 15 is nothing in the civilian sector. CC's and First shirts hype the things up to way more then they really are. I know of a few that never even made it to the persons permanent military record. Bottom line is that it's all up to who is running the backround, how deep they wanna dig, if they can even get access to your military record, and if they know anything about the military. I'm with everyone else on this one and say the only thing that matters is your Honorable discharge. Good luck and most importantly, stay safe!!!!!

                              HOPE I SPELLED EVERYTHING RIGHT!!!!!

                              Comment

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