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  • Originally posted by bsr108 View Post
    You can appeal the results of the Poly. I know several people on the Dept that took it a second time and passed. My advise would to be completely honest during the interview phase where you are given the chance to explain yourself.
    A lot of people took a 2nd ploy, myself included. I suspect that they do it intentionally to try and catch you in some way. Just my opinion. what gets you bagged is when you get verbal diarrhea during the pre-poly interview. Remeber, the test is really a way to get you to make damaging admssions. The science behind actual "lie detecting" is sketchy at best. The test is more useful as a tool of intimidation, in hopes that you'll admit everything you're hiding in case the poly picks it up. It's given by a detective, experienced and schooled in psychology, so if you're being deceitful in some way, they'll pick it up throughout the interview session. The actual poly is just one part of the test.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who are not." Thomas Jefferson

    Comment


    • Originally posted by bigandy View Post
      I think they give you 10+minutes to perform all the skills, so I think the only thing I need to practice now is my technique. I'm from Jersey so taking the practice course was a little out of the question. No reason to drive 4 1/2 hours to practice a course.

      Let me know if I'm qualified or over-qualified for the course.

      Thanks.
      Not the best attitude to have. I traveled from Queens, NY, paid for a one night hotel stay, and took the practice session. If you want the job bad enough, you won't leave anything to chance. How will you know if you're overqualified if you've never done a test run with the course? Many fail the test for various reasons. Like japanesezero said, you need to familiarize yourself with instant disqualification criteria. This isn't something you should be trying to figure out on test day.

      Edit: I saw the same attitude in the academy. You're sometimes granted the option of staying after the day's end for extra practice with the evolutions, on your own time (uncompensated). Some did, some chose not to. Guess who needed to retest? Guess who failed out?
      Last edited by edpmedic; 01-21-2011, 03:44 PM.
      "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who are not." Thomas Jefferson

      Comment


      • The dummy drag and the forcible entry tend to be difficult for smaller individuals, and also those lacking significant core/rotational strength and grip strength. If you can't manage the ladder raise, perhaps you should consider another less physically demanding profession. If 75 lbs is a high percentage of you bodyweight, you're going to have a tough time on the stepmill. I weighed a lean 225# for the test. The weight is only around 1/3 bw. If you weigh only 110-115 lbs, that's around 67% bw. Regardless, the weight is realistic for the demands of the job, such as climbing a high rise in full gear, carrying a 2 1/2 hose pack and tools or an officer's bag. It can be trained for. You need to be relatively fresh coming off or the steps, or you're going to be in trouble.

        The CPAT is an easier version of past tests. It should feel like more of a warm up than an actual test. The academy work performance circuits, which are in gear and on air, are much more difficult.
        "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who are not." Thomas Jefferson

        Comment


        • I just received this message today:

          "I am sending you this email because of your participation in the Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department’s application process. We have not hired a firefighter since December 2008. There are two reasons for this 1) We have too many entry level firefighters at this time. We have no position numbers to hire firefighters at this time and the future is unknown. 2) Our business need is to hire paramedics.

          I am sure you have possibly heard the rumors. I will clarify them for you. We are having a recruit school starting March 28th. It is comprised of 12 paramedics and 12 firefighters. This decision was made at the last minute. We are relegated to two recruit schools per fiscal year by the County Executive. It is unknown at this time if we will have another recruit school this calendar year and it is unknown whether it will contain firefighters or a combination of firefighter and paramedics class. Regardless, when we only hire 12 firefighters at a time and we have 800 files in the process, for many applicants it will take a very long time to be considered for hire.

          My concern is not only for the Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department but is also for the applicants in our process. I want you all to have a job. It is a sad reality that not all 800 individuals will receive a job.

          Therefore, this is the reason for this email. I have been in contact with Alexandria Fire Department. I have attached their flyer. They will be open for a very short period of time to hire anywhere from 12-24 firefighters for a July recruit school. Your file is in good standing with us and if you are interested in applying for a position with Alexandria please return this email to me and I will send an email to Mr. Gary Tobias with my endorsement of you for their process.

          He has informed me that he will not take my endorsement lightly.

          Please email me back if you are interested and I will send something to him. This in no way takes you out of the running for a position in our fire department but it does ensure that you do not have all of your eggs in one basket. Getting your foot in the door is important"

          I was STRONGLY advised by recruitment to achieve P certification to be considered for hiring. It seems to be that firefighters were hired due to an unexpected and small shortage.

          Also, I am a minority bilingual male. I passed all the application tests (CPAT,poly,psych). I am also NREMT-I certified. These were not enough. Every single career personnel has advised me to attain Paramedic certification. I would recommend anyone to AEC's program to attain EMT-I certification in a year, apply, and attain P certification while the application process is going on.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by surgeo View Post
            I just received this message today:

            "I am sending you this email because of your participation in the Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department’s application process. We have not hired a firefighter since December 2008. There are two reasons for this 1) We have too many entry level firefighters at this time. We have no position numbers to hire firefighters at this time and the future is unknown. 2) Our business need is to hire paramedics.

            I am sure you have possibly heard the rumors. I will clarify them for you. We are having a recruit school starting March 28th. It is comprised of 12 paramedics and 12 firefighters. This decision was made at the last minute. We are relegated to two recruit schools per fiscal year by the County Executive. It is unknown at this time if we will have another recruit school this calendar year and it is unknown whether it will contain firefighters or a combination of firefighter and paramedics class. Regardless, when we only hire 12 firefighters at a time and we have 800 files in the process, for many applicants it will take a very long time to be considered for hire.

            My concern is not only for the Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department but is also for the applicants in our process. I want you all to have a job. It is a sad reality that not all 800 individuals will receive a job.
            It's true that they haven't hired any FF's since AUGUST 2008, for the 126th. What has happened since then is a combination of attrition (retirements, mostly) and promotions. We made quite a few LT's. This left vacant FF positions. A good number of the LT's were AHO's (All Hazards Officer, which is an officer w/ a paramedic cert). Others have promoted to either Apparatus Tech, Hazmat Tech, or TROT tech, and have dropped their medic cert as well. In addition, since the hiring of the 126th, we've also converted most of our BLS ambulances to a medic/EMT minimum staffing arrangement, known as the "one and one." This is why there is a business need for medics. The mass promotion of LT's coupled with no recent FF hiring hiring has led to a spike in FF OT, which necessitates hiring.

            The county is facing another budget shortfall this year, but we're beginning to hire FF's again. Compare this to 3/2009, when we were facing possible layoffs. We're currently restricted in hiring due to financial difficulty. Meanwhile, promotions and retirements will continue. We may not see the mass hiring that we enjoyed in recent years, of 100 or more recruits and four classes a year, but we will see increased hiring at some point. If it takes two more years to straighten out our finances, those that are going through the process will be eligible when hiring picks up again. My understanding is that your eligible for hire status expires two years after the date of successful completion of the hiring process. Has this changed? If it hasn't, those 800 or so will die on the list, and have to reapply. If you're knocking everything out now, you may be eligible by the spring or summer, and then have two years to be considered.

            The fact that we're even hiring period is a wonderful thing. Many depts are laying off 10, 20, 30% or more of their force.

            Edit: Like we've been saying all along, test for as many depts as you can. There's dozens in the MD/DC/NOVA region alone.
            "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who are not." Thomas Jefferson

            Comment


            • Some motivation for ya:

              http://statter911.com/2011/01/22/vid...n-springfield/
              "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who are not." Thomas Jefferson

              Comment


              • Here's the county's official CPAT video:

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_tFxYKMSjw

                Pay attention to the audio at 4:30; the importance of attending the training sessions is stressed.
                "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who are not." Thomas Jefferson

                Comment


                • Anybody get notifications yet?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by edpmedic View Post
                    Not the best attitude to have. I traveled from Queens, NY, paid for a one night hotel stay, and took the practice session. If you want the job bad enough, you won't leave anything to chance. How will you know if you're overqualified if you've never done a test run with the course? Many fail the test for various reasons. Like japanesezero said, you need to familiarize yourself with instant disqualification criteria. This isn't something you should be trying to figure out on test day.

                    Edit: I saw the same attitude in the academy. You're sometimes granted the option of staying after the day's end for extra practice with the evolutions, on your own time (uncompensated). Some did, some chose not to. Guess who needed to retest? Guess who failed out?

                    I honestly would've loved to have been able to have had the time/money to take the practice course in Fairfax County. However, my father being a career firefighter, I was able to talk to a lot of the newer guys on the job to find out specific workouts to get into the shape I'm in now. A few of the guys trained on this type of CPAT and explained that it isn't as tough as prior years other CPAT's. The training course in Newark NJ allowed myself to become familiar w/ the New Jersey Ability Test. The skills are similar, the only difference is it is more fast-paced.

                    Thank you all for the input.

                    Andy

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by bigandy View Post
                      I honestly would've loved to have been able to have had the time/money to take the practice course in Fairfax County. However, my father being a career firefighter, I was able to talk to a lot of the newer guys on the job to find out specific workouts to get into the shape I'm in now. A few of the guys trained on this type of CPAT and explained that it isn't as tough as prior years other CPAT's. The training course in Newark NJ allowed myself to become familiar w/ the New Jersey Ability Test. The skills are similar, the only difference is it is more fast-paced.

                      Thank you all for the input.

                      Andy
                      I understand what you're saying. I had a stepmill and weight vests in my old gym when I was training for the CPAT. I was already doing dragon flags, full contact twists, and windshield wipers hanging from the pullup bar. I found the practice session and the actual test quite easy. If you have access to equipment at an actual firehouse, that's definitely a bonus. It's just that we see many failures on what is an easy, watered down test. One person I work with worked one CPAT testing event, and he said that 39 out of 40 failed. It was like they woke up that morning and were like "I feel like being a firefighter today," like they just tried it out for a goof or something.
                      "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who are not." Thomas Jefferson

                      Comment


                      • Same fire from post # 861, only in proper chronological order, and from a much better vantage point:

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30SCtOHUGhc

                        The previous video was confusing, because some parts were out of sequence.
                        "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who are not." Thomas Jefferson

                        Comment


                        • I was 1 of 4 to pass out of 40 or so at the 1st time trial for my CPAT. I did a LOT of steps and running, and lifting. It was fun, I didn't think it was that bad. Although this process is taking a long time and it's hard to keep motivated and to the gym.

                          So, they're letting me retake to Poly. Guess it's a more focused one. I forget what it's called, but happy it's not a 1 shot deal.
                          Last edited by Slikrthnu; 01-25-2011, 10:40 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Slikrthnu View Post
                            I was 1 of 4 to pass out of 40 or so at the 1st time trial for my CPAT. I did a LOT of steps and running, and lifting. It was fun, I didn't think it was that bad. Although this process is taking a long time and it's hard to keep motivated and to the gym.

                            So, they're letting me retake to Poly. Guess it's a more focused one. I forget what it's called, but happy it's not a 1 shot deal.
                            That sounds about right. I've heard a bunch of stories of people having to take a second poly, including myself. They do a more focused test, just a series of questions on whatever they said you failed. Personally, I think they're just fishing, taking a chance that you were lying about something. After my second poly, the detective showed me some graph, said I was again deceptive. I was truthful, so I couldn't give a reason as to why there was this supposed deception. I was asked repeatedly to explain the graph results. I couldn't. I was honest. As I was leaving, he told me "I'm not giving up on this, the county really wants to hire you, blah blah blah." "Here's my card, call me on the way back home if you can think of why you failed that question." A couple of months later, I received my letter of successful completion of the process.
                            "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who are not." Thomas Jefferson

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by edpmedic View Post
                              That sounds about right. I've heard a bunch of stories of people having to take a second poly, including myself. They do a more focused test, just a series of questions on whatever they said you failed. Personally, I think they're just fishing, taking a chance that you were lying about something. After my second poly, the detective showed me some graph, said I was again deceptive. I was truthful, so I couldn't give a reason as to why there was this supposed deception. I was asked repeatedly to explain the graph results. I couldn't. I was honest. As I was leaving, he told me "I'm not giving up on this, the county really wants to hire you, blah blah blah." "Here's my card, call me on the way back home if you can think of why you failed that question." A couple of months later, I received my letter of successful completion of the process.
                              Same thing happened to me... Only they asked me focused questions at the end of my first one. Got the same card and if you remember anything line too... Just be honest and confident in your honesty and you will be fine.

                              Comment


                              • edpmedic, thank you very much for your input. I wish I had read your posts years ago. It looks like I was in the same place where most of the people posting here are. I was worried about the CPAT, polygraph, and psych tests when I should have really been worried about paramedic school.

                                I first applied about 2 years ago for the FF/EMT and made it up to the polygraph where I failed. It took me almost a year to get to the poly. I reapplied as an EMT-Intermediate 6 months ago and everything got pushed through in less than 3 months. I also passed my poly, even though my answers and questions were the same (I kept a copy of my first background questionnaire).

                                When I was in AEC's (Associates in Emergency Care) EMT-intermediate class, Fairfax recruitment came and passed out fliers, pens, etc, and told us to apply now since the application process takes a while. In the meantime we should continue to Paramedic and by that time we would be eligible for hire.

                                Now that I have been to numerous fire stations in Prince William, Arlington, Fairfax, Dale City, (because of EMT-B,I and currently P clinical ), I realize that over 70 percent of the calls in the fire station are NOT fire related. Usually on a medic rotation I would go out on 8-6 calls in a busy station (12 hr shift), whereas the firefighters would maybe go on 2-4 calls, and half of those were because the MEDICS requested them.

                                Also, 4 students in my P class just got hired from Alexandria. They were all EMT-I's.
                                Last edited by surgeo; 01-27-2011, 05:46 PM.

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