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  • #31
    Originally posted by FWDbuff View Post
    If he was passed over on a numerical placement list, does it really matter how the other guy did?

    I was number 4XX on a list for the City of Philadelphia 15 years ago. Because the City had a Minority Hiring regulation in place at the time, I was passed over. They had to reach into the two and three thousands to get enough applicants (that had drivers licenses, high school diplomas, and did NOT have felonies, drugs in their systems, etc......) Tell me, is that me being bigoted or do I have "poor social skills" by quoting facts about the socio-economic reality of the bulk of the minority population of the City of Philadelphia?

    HINT: It's not bigotry nor is it poor social skills.
    You're right; it's bull****.
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Originally posted by Rescue101
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by peterbound View Post
      Oh, I read the OP, unfortunately you fail to grasp the concept of the legal process. The EOCC files the lawsuit, and several other agencies have to to litigate and determine the verdict.

      The only part Obama played in it was appointing the chair and members.

      As for your assertion that Cleveland /must/ hire a certain amount of minorities, well, i haven't seen any documentation other than scuttlebutt to support this. If you have any other documentation to prove otherwise, please provide it.

      You need to stop protesting so much about your combat vet status. It just sounds silly. There are plenty of other people on the board that have been to the sandbox that don't talk about it constantly (me included). You come off sounding whiney.

      If you think its bs then why even comment on here? So you think its okay to hire somebody with a criminal record and self induced bad credit? If so you are a moron. I come from a big police, fire, and military family and have a lot of friends in the service. Every single one of them will say it is much easier to get promoted/hired if you are a female or minotiry. Plain and simple.

      Comment


      • #33
        Army Boy, yep, that's just how it is.

        My grandfather retired as a Captain after 29.5 years from one of the largest FD in the state of Texas. He reason for retiring, affirmative action. He scored the highest and was passed up to bring an a.a./black guy in as a chief.

        Don't know about some of you, but I don't want a good gender / race mix just for the sake of not hurting some specific population group's feelings by being left out; I want the best that have applied regardless of gender or race, period!

        Comment


        • #34
          Next thing you know we're going to see a revival of white guys in basketball...to fulfill minority needs. This isn't a position to take lightly to please the masses. If I'm in a room with all my being on the line, I don't want to think to myself "I sure am glad I got the best black/hispanic/asian/whatever behind me in case this goes south". HECK NO!! I want to know I got the best PERSON possible. Everyone looks the same behind the mask.

          You take pride in the job you're doing and what you've EARNED and ACCOMPLISHED by becoming a firefighter. I'd be embarrassed as can be if I had to go into a recruit class with everyone looking at me knowing I was only there because of which bubble I circled on the application. I truly think that would weaken comradery and brotherhoood.

          Comment


          • #35
            Fact is, race and gender shouldn't even be considered when evaluating candidates for a slot. PAT scores, written scores, background check and an interview are all that should count.

            If 50 red people and 50 blue people apply for 50 spots and the 50 red ones do the best on all of the above mentioned, hire those 50. Who really gives a damn about percentages Any person worth fighting fire with wouldn't want to be hired under such circumtstances anyway.
            Career Firefighter
            Volunteer Captain

            -Professional in Either Role-

            Originally posted by Rescue101
            I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Army Boy View Post
              If you think its bs then why even comment on here? So you think its okay to hire somebody with a criminal record and self induced bad credit? If so you are a moron. I come from a big police, fire, and military family and have a lot of friends in the service. Every single one of them will say it is much easier to get promoted/hired if you are a female or minotiry. Plain and simple.
              Were you and i in the same military? Last i check promotions were based on boards/testing/PFT scores. If anything that is a god awful example of gender/race based promotions.

              As for the credit. Go on the bankruptcy thread in the same forum and tell the cats they they don't have a chance because their business went under and their credit is slammed, or someone that wrote some bad checks 12 years ago.

              I too come from a fire fighting family. The difference is some of them are hispanic (i'm white, but in the AZ you have a lot of mutli-cultural families), all of them are great fire fighters (most work for PHX, some in smaller towns), they all work just as hard, if not harder to gain the respect of their peers because of the socially accepted racism that occurs from the majority of the workforce (we white guys). Give it a rest, you've lost. There is a cultural shift, deal with it.

              As for what counts in testing. I don't know of anyone out here on the west coast that gives extra points for racial background. If anyone is from Cali that can chime in, please do so, but i think it is ranked and scored with no racial background involved. All you have is hearsay and scuttlebutt that makes you sound like a racist.

              Comment


              • #37
                @ peter E1-E6 you are right. However once you reach the ranks that Dept of Army promotes, I screwed up and didnt claim the small fraction of Native American I have in me.

                I can't speak for out west and down south, but I know how it works in the midwest. It should be the bestman/woman for the job regardless of race, color, or religion. Quota's are real and cities do have to meet them. I dont know about you, but I wouldnt want a quota hire that scored 72% not smart enough to tie his own shoe behind me on a hoseline. Eff that. Then what happens when peoples belongings start coming up missing after salvage is complete? Where is the trust in firefighters going to out? Out the window. Or even worse, when things start coming up missing at the firehouse. All of this WILL start happening now that these cities can be sued for not hiring somebody because of a criminal record.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Isn't it funny how the same people who preach racial equality and freedom of each person to succeed on thier own are the same ones who support racial qoutas and what not?

                  It is bull crap. The process as described in Philly makes me sick.
                  Career Firefighter
                  Volunteer Captain

                  -Professional in Either Role-

                  Originally posted by Rescue101
                  I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by FireFuss
                    I'd wager (if there was an accurate way to measure, which there will NEVER be a way) that the same percentage of each racial group has a biggotry towards another group. For whatever reason, people always assume that WHITES are the only racist people. That is the biggest problem with racism today, that everyone assumes the white guy is wrong when anything racially motivated comes up.
                    ^^ One of the most true statements ever. ^^


                    Peterbound you're missing the point... The point is the civil rights movement was to fight for equal treatment. Not special treatment. Why continue to punish the younger generations who grew up during the late 70's to now.. We had absolutely nothing to do with any type of segregation and to continue treating us that way will do nothing but shift the oppression onto others.

                    It's narrow minded *******s like you who keep the stigma of you have to be white to be racist alive.

                    Socially accepted racism in the fire service? Really? Last time I checked there are no "WHITE" IAFF Associations.

                    So in closing...

                    If I had wheels I'd be a wagon.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Qualified

                      As the one who started this thread let me say i agree with most.....I think the best should get the job regardless of race, color or creed. Male or female....if you have the top score your in period. I was hired back when you scored #10 you were the 10th one hired. Just because the government says you need to have diversity doesn't make it right. This is when the saying goes "He who has the gold makes the rules." I might not like them but we must abide by them.
                      Respectfully,
                      Jay Dudley
                      Retired Fire
                      Background Investigator
                      IACOJ-Member
                      Lifetime Member CSFA
                      IAFF Alumni Member

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Yeah but it will never happen. I'm surprised this thread got as much feedback as it did. This is a really touchy subject which could offend many. It will never be the best get the job. That's done. In certain areas it is beyond that to a ridiculous extent. To the point where they will throw out tests or lower the standard scores just to get a certain group. Bottom line is, you can't win this fight. And the fire service as a whole is not a supportive group as it once was. It's a losing battle and if you do get the job, most people are just glad there the ones that didn't get screwed and keeps their mouth shut. Which I would do the same. Who knows, I could have already been a victim of this and not even know it. You to. Or anyone else on a list.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Correct

                          JACKT...You are correct. Not in today's society can we step backward. If there is a lesson to learn here it's while I was picked #26 on a list and they hired in order I was pigeon holed in a minority spot down the road. I had Civil Service tell me "That there is no way your American Indian." I am and for that I was now a minority number on their list.
                          Respectfully,
                          Jay Dudley
                          Retired Fire
                          Background Investigator
                          IACOJ-Member
                          Lifetime Member CSFA
                          IAFF Alumni Member

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Hey man - use every advantage you can to get a job. If you're part of a background you know they want then use it. If you have military background try and become a disabled vet. This is all part of the game and everyone is playing it. So why shouldn't you. Some places don't care if you know what you're doing. Trust me. They just figure you'll pick it up along the way. Hey, not all firefighters are heroes guys. There are plenty that are lazy, hide during a call, and don't want to do anything. Guess what: There firefighters. And there not going anywhere.

                            Comment

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