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  • #16
    Found the rest of the article article for ya Dudley...

    "If the hiring criterion does not involve race and it was not racially motivated and it was applied evenhandedly, then it’s not racial discrimination," said Clegg, president of the Center for Equal Opportunity in Virginia. "It’s not government’s business to second-guess a company’s hiring standards unless they are treating people differently because of their race."

    The Supreme Court has voiced some skepticism over "disparate impact" claims in recent years.

    Two years ago, the Supreme Court ruled that the city of New Haven, Conn., had discriminated against white firefighters who had high scores when it threw out a promotion test given to firefighters because it had an adverse effect on blacks. But the justices did not issue a broad ruling clarifying this part of discrimination law.

    The EEOC, an independent agency with the power to sue employers, recently launched an initiative to "eradicate racism and colorism from employment," and it filed suits against several employers for their use of background checks in hiring. In one case, Freeman Cos., a national events and exhibitions marketing company, was sued for using criminal records and credit checks to screen job applicants.

    The agency’s lawyers have said such hiring practices are not automatically illegal even if they have an adverse effect on minorities. However, an employer must be able to show that a disputed hiring criterion — such as a good credit history or a clean criminal record — is necessary for the job in question.

    EEOC lawyers say that since 1987, the agency has advised employers they may be violating the law if they refuse to hire anyone with a criminal record, even if the crime was in the distant past.

    "This is not novel. The test is whether the practice has a negative impact on certain groups," said Carol Miaskoff, an assistant legal counsel for the agency.

    She cited the case of a middle-age black man who was turned down for a job by a transit agency in Philadelphia because he was convicted of a gang crime when he was 15.

    The suit against Kaplan accused the company of unlawfully discriminating "by refusing to hire a class of black job applicants nationwide" because of their credit history. It sought a court order forbidding the practice and an award of back pay to the unsuccessful applicants.

    The agency said the number of workplace discrimination suits rose to the unprecedented level of 99,922 in 2010.

    Kaplan, a private education company owned by The Washington Post Co., refused to change its hiring standards in response to EEOC’s complaint, and it issued a statement saying it would fight the lawsuit.

    "We are an equal opportunity employer, and we are proud of the diversity of our workforce," the company said, acknowledging it "conducts background checks on all prospective employees. For employees whose responsibilities include financial matters, such as those who advise students on financial aid, background checks also include credit histories."

    (c) 2010, Tribune Co."







    ...sounds a lot like the situation the guys on FDNY list 6019 are facing...
    Originally posted by jedch47
    You like me are probably just a small player in this big EMS game. I am sure that it all makes sense to the people in charge. I am under the impression that when you start in upper level managment you lose the majority of your common sense.

    Comment


    • #17
      You couldn't write this stuff

      Oh, it gets better the further you read into it. from the E.E.O.C. web site. An employer may not inquire into:

      1. Inquiry into an applicant's current or past assets, liabilities, or credit rating, including bankruptcy or garnishment, refusal or cancellation of bonding, car ownership, rental or ownership of a house, length of residence at an address, charge accounts, furniture ownership, or bank accounts generally should be avoided because they tend to impact more adversely on minorities and females. Exceptions exist if the employer can show that such information is essential to the particular job in question.

      2. There is no Federal law that clearly prohibits an employer from asking about arrest and conviction records. However, using such records as an absolute measure to prevent an individual from being hired could limit the employment opportunities of some protected groups and thus cannot be used in this way.

      3. Similarly, employers should not ask for a photograph of an applicant. If needed for identification purposes, a photograph may be obtained after an offer of employment is made and accepted.

      I think I am going to sleep better knowing the E.E.O.C. is making sure an employer cannot ask me about my furniture ownership.
      Last edited by FFighterRob; 12-31-2010, 07:09 PM.
      Good Luck, Capt Rob
      www.myfireinterview.com

      Comment


      • #18
        The fire service is fading away. These complaints that I see in this thread is one that has been going on for at least 30 years. It has not changed. If you are from certain race your chances of getting hired are diminished big time. That is just the way of the world. And I have not seen any politician or anyone else for that matter be able to overturn this. It's just the way it is. And the fire service has become one of those things that can be cut at any time in order to save a buck. It's a losing fight guys. Yes it is ridiculous but we will not win this. Not cause we can't but because we are soft. My sugestion is to just dye your hair yellow and move out of the country. Then try and get hired

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        • #19
          You know, everyone gets ****ed about the race thing. But statistically the numbers don't support your beefs. Unfortunately White Anglo Saxon Males dominate the Civil Service professions. I can't understand where this hate comes from other than thinly veiled bigotry.
          You've got great fire fighters that are white and great fire fighters that are black. Same thing the other way around.
          You guys need something new to complain about, the cultures changing. Get with it or get out.

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          • #20
            .. disappointment
            Last edited by Army Boy; 01-09-2011, 01:03 PM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Army Boy View Post
              I'm a decorated combat veteran. I'm 6'1" 225lbs of pure rock. I have blonde hair and blue eyes. i have my 240 card and my emt b.. im to smart and over qualfied to get hired onto a big city fire department. my dream.. I want to be a Cleveland firefighter.
              I would like to start by saying thanks for serving our country BUT you are way to big headed man. Its great that your EMT B and everything and that you think your smart but if your so smart why aren't you at the Cleveland fire department 1 of 2 reasons you weren't smart enough to pass the test even with vet points or they haven't hired since you left the military.

              Comment


              • #22
                this was the first test in 12 years. im 26. i've gotten in as much schooling as i could in the ammount of time ive been home, which was april 15th 2010. In medic school as we speak. I'm just saying how tough it is to get hired out there with these Obama laws they have in place. It's not right. The fire service is going to go in the ****ter.

                I dont mean to sound arrogant. Sorry for that, and thankyou.

                Comment


                • #23
                  It is ridiculous, I work with a guy who did excellent on the written, cpat, interview ect. He has his 240 and his EMTP, with 3 years experience. He was passed up, instead they hired a piece of ghetto trash who barely graduated high school ( I met this character a while back while working ). Is this right??

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Army Boy View Post
                    this was the first test in 12 years. im 26. i've gotten in as much schooling as i could in the ammount of time ive been home, which was april 15th 2010. In medic school as we speak. I'm just saying how tough it is to get hired out there with these Obama laws they have in place. It's not right. The fire service is going to go in the ****ter.

                    I dont mean to sound arrogant. Sorry for that, and thankyou.
                    Silly. What 'obama' laws? The president doesn't make law, congress does. He may propose laws, but has no hand in the actual law making.

                    Nor do I remember any thing in the current presidential agenda that has pin pointed 6 foot 1 inch 225 pound combat veterans for elimination.

                    I'd like to see the states on the Cleveland academy class that you were turned down for. I'm pretty confidant that over 50% would be white, if not more.

                    I suggest you pursue as much school as you can in the AMOUNT of time you have before the next testing cycle. A political science class, or american government course might help with this little misunderstanding you have about the law making process.
                    I'd also work on my people skills, as these silly little ego issues tend to get in the way during the oral board process.

                    It's time to stop blaming some sort of affirmative action laws for your failure and accept responsibility for your own short comings.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by bw3 View Post
                      It is ridiculous, I work with a guy who did excellent on the written, cpat, interview ect. He has his 240 and his EMTP, with 3 years experience. He was passed up, instead they hired a piece of ghetto trash who barely graduated high school ( I met this character a while back while working ). Is this right??
                      Again, your thinly veiled bigotry is silly. How do you know what type of fire fighter this individual is? How do you know how he did during testing? How do you know how he did during the interview process?

                      You don't. You only assume based on his background. Poor social skills mate.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Obama laws they have in place.
                        1.) Go complete a Civics class. Sooner rather than later.
                        2.) You are NOT a victim unless you let yourself become one.
                        3.) Self pity is Not a redeeming factor nor will it assist you in your goal.
                        4.) If it don't kill you, it makes you stronger and wiser.
                        5.) Be a man, pick yourself up and focus.
                        6.) Now get out there and bust your *** and EARN the job.
                        My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
                        "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
                        George Mason
                        Co-author of the Second Amendment
                        during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
                        Elevator Rescue Information

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by peterbound View Post
                          How do you know how he did during the interview process?
                          If he was passed over on a numerical placement list, does it really matter how the other guy did?

                          I was number 4XX on a list for the City of Philadelphia 15 years ago. Because the City had a Minority Hiring regulation in place at the time, I was passed over. They had to reach into the two and three thousands to get enough applicants (that had drivers licenses, high school diplomas, and did NOT have felonies, drugs in their systems, etc......) Tell me, is that me being bigoted or do I have "poor social skills" by quoting facts about the socio-economic reality of the bulk of the minority population of the City of Philadelphia?

                          HINT: It's not bigotry nor is it poor social skills.
                          "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            @ peterbound. why dont you read the opening statement? People the obama appointed..

                            Nobody has been passed up yet by the city of cleveland. However the city has to hire a certain ammount of minorities regardless of there score on the civil service test.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Army Boy View Post
                              @ peterbound. why dont you read the opening statement? People the obama appointed..

                              Nobody has been passed up yet by the city of cleveland. However the city has to hire a certain ammount of minorities regardless of there score on the civil service test.
                              Oh, I read the OP, unfortunately you fail to grasp the concept of the legal process. The EOCC files the lawsuit, and several other agencies have to to litigate and determine the verdict.

                              The only part Obama played in it was appointing the chair and members.

                              As for your assertion that Cleveland /must/ hire a certain amount of minorities, well, i haven't seen any documentation other than scuttlebutt to support this. If you have any other documentation to prove otherwise, please provide it.

                              You need to stop protesting so much about your combat vet status. It just sounds silly. There are plenty of other people on the board that have been to the sandbox that don't talk about it constantly (me included). You come off sounding whiney.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                [QUOTE=peterbound;1237996]Again, your thinly veiled bigotry is silly. How do you know what type of fire fighter this individual is? How do you know how he did during testing? How do you know how he did during the interview process?

                                You don't. You only assume based on his background. Poor social skills mate.[/QUOTE

                                I went to high school with this individual.........dont remember him attending class.

                                Comment

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