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  • #16
    Originally posted by muddrow22 View Post
    i didnt know this was a job interview get a life people its just a forum
    You asked a question. You got a response. If you don't like it then take it else where. Have fun working a desk job the rest of your life ;-)

    Comment


    • #17
      Muddrow-

      You asked for peoples opinions and their perspectives of your situation, what were you expecting...they are telling you upfront the reality and severity of your situation.

      Comment


      • #18
        I hate to say it, but some of the people who have responded to you, don't like to admit that a good amount of firefighters have problems with alcohol abuse so if a department wouldn't hire you, they would be hipocrites- considering they probably have a few on their department who have alcohol issues. And, actually, there are some states that have a law stating you cannot base employment off of a criminal background check. So in other words if they tell you they can't hire you solely based on your background, you can sue them. And, don't take offense to what Thanojon said, my wife has a desk job and makes more money than I ever will and probably him too and WE SAVE LIVES. A desk job would be a hell of a lot easier.

        Comment


        • #19
          Question

          Let me ask the question.....If you were doing the hiring and you had five candidates in front of you...would you hire the one with two DUI's or the one with the clean record. I know what your thinking.....you are all equal in scores and are number 1,2,3,4 and 5 on the list.

          I rest my case.....
          Respectfully,
          Jay Dudley
          Retired Fire
          Background Investigator
          IACOJ-Member
          Lifetime Member CSFA
          IAFF Alumni Member

          Comment


          • #20
            David-

            Where did you get your information regarding the departments inability to use criminal backgrounds as a determination if an applicant isn't qualified enough? I honestly am just wondering if that truely holds up.
            For every dept. that I have applied for or have seen hiring I always notice in the packet that they have an "automatic disqualifier" section. It tends to be mostly pertaining to criminal activities. If there were possible legal matters to come of it, wouldn't you think depts. couldn't even make baselines?

            Comment


            • #21
              JayDudley- seriously I would hire whoever is the best fit. I have had firefighters who have had clean records and they couldn't handle the job.
              EgressOne- here is what I got off of a state law website for Wisconsin "
              Wisconsin prohibits discrimination based on arrest or conviction records in the same manner it prohibits discrimination against members of other protected classes. The statutes apply to employers, labor organizations, employment agencies and licensing agencies. Several types of employers are exempted from the statute and in many cases licensing agencies are not covered. Employers cannot ask applicants about an arrest record, unless a charge is pending. If an applicant’s arrest is pending, employers can refuse to consider hiring him or her if the arrest substantially relates to the employment." You can do a little more research on Wisconsin (they have a lot of laws that even help felons. I believe there are 4 states all together that have the same statute, but they are trying to get more states to not discriminate based on applicants backgrounds. I am not saying it is right though.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by David C. View Post
                JayDudley- seriously I would hire whoever is the best fit. I have had firefighters who have had clean records and they couldn't handle the job.
                EgressOne- here is what I got off of a state law website for Wisconsin "
                Wisconsin prohibits discrimination based on arrest or conviction records in the same manner it prohibits discrimination against members of other protected classes. The statutes apply to employers, labor organizations, employment agencies and licensing agencies. Several types of employers are exempted from the statute and in many cases licensing agencies are not covered. Employers cannot ask applicants about an arrest record, unless a charge is pending. If an applicant’s arrest is pending, employers can refuse to consider hiring him or her if the arrest substantially relates to the employment." You can do a little more research on Wisconsin (they have a lot of laws that even help felons. I believe there are 4 states all together that have the same statute, but they are trying to get more states to not discriminate based on applicants backgrounds. I am not saying it is right though.
                You're a complete idiot. No fire Department would NOT do a background check and NOT disqualify people if they find reasons too. Also, you claim that "you have had firefighters who have had clean records and couldn't do the job." Either you're just a troll or you're on some volly department.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Confused

                  David C.....I was a Background Investigator and trust me when I say this...."Two DUI"s is a deal breaker." At least with the departments I worked for.
                  Respectfully,
                  Jay Dudley
                  Retired Fire
                  Background Investigator
                  IACOJ-Member
                  Lifetime Member CSFA
                  IAFF Alumni Member

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Anyone who wants to rely on the PC psycho babble of any agency that they will not hold your past backgound history against you in a hiring process still believes in the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.

                    Firefighters are sworn position. In most states felons can't be sworn in.
                    _____________________________________________

                    "Nothing counts 'til you have the badge . . . Nothing!"

                    More Tips on getting hired and promoted by Firehouse Contributing Author Fire “Captain Bob” Articles here:
                    http://www.firehouse.com/contact/10544410/bob-smith


                    Fire "Captain Bob"

                    www.eatstress.com

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I will weigh in based on my experience in the hire/fire department.

                      On most applications, you will be asked if you have ever been convicted of a felony. Depending on the State, the applicant may legally refuse to answer the question. This has not been my experience in departments I have worked for... the question must be answered. But a disclaimer must advise the applicant that a Felony may or may not disqualify the applicant. We cannot ask them if they have been incarcerated, served time in prison, or if they are an ex-convict. We cannot ask about their arrest record. Part of the conviction question is a test as to the truthfulness of the applicant. We always run NCIC and State BI Background checks, so trying to dodge this question leads to immediate disqualification.

                      There are specific questions that I may not ask, but there are alternative questions that I can. I cannot ask questions based on race, religion, marital status or sex, etc. I cannot ask questions about family or anything not based on the job description or the performance capability of the candidate. I cannot ask if the candidate is a US Citizen, but I can ask if they will be able to provide proof that they can legally work in the US.

                      DUI, DWI, OWI, OUI, (convictions) whatever you want to call it, will affect the applicant's chances, but it is not an automatic disqualifier. Time passed and circumstances such as incarceration or if the incident was associated with other crimes are considered. As to the issue of an ex-con, again we will find it and it will be weighed. But in some states, this issue cannot be the only disqualification factor. Multiple DUI (etc.) convictions will most certainly eliminate 99% of the candiates. When will it not? If the incident(s) was/were at least 7 to 15 years ago, depending on the State. (Some departments do use age as a disqualifier.)

                      But from my part of view... I really need to be scrapping the bottom of the barrell to have to consider candidates with issues. Many times we will have hundreds apply for a limited number of positions. The Entry Exam usually eliminates about 35-40% of the field. The PAT and the PsyEx cuts another 30-35%. So I am left with about 25-35% of the applicants. Then it is a process of interviews, background checks and screening. We can find out 80% of what we need to know about someone with a thorough background check, and it can affect the score weighing.

                      We do check the candidates supplied references, but don't put too much stock in responses. We expect friends, family and associates to make them sound great. But we check because you never know what people will tell you, and many times you discover something that is a red flag. We also will ask reference contacts if there is anyone else we should visit with as we develop a picture of the candidate.

                      By the time we get past all of this... I may be looking at 10-15% of the field, and they are most likely squeaky clean. I will usually start pulling from the top scores to fill in the positions. If I run out of candidates, we go deeper into the ones that didn't make the last cut. We usually don't have that issue since most want the job... but a few may change their mind at the moment of truth.

                      As many have stated, (as I have myself), spelling, sentence structure, and the proper use of the English Language is very important to the scoring. You will be in contact with the public. You will be representing your department, and every firefighter on the planet. People expect you to be able to answer their questions. You must be respectful and polite. You must be professional in everything you do. This applies more so to anyone wishing to climb the ladder someday.

                      I once had a candidate demand that the entry exam be read to him because he could not read it. We did, and he did not pass. I must provide reasonable accommodations, but one of the qualifications for the job is the candidate must be able to read and write English. I can't ask if a medical condition caused his inability to read and write. I cannot ask if he has ADD or ADHD. But I can ask if he is lazy and does not have the capacity to complete tasks.

                      Since classroom work is vital to your ability to learn and comprehend the subject matter, it is equally important that you can read and write in English. Part of our job is to make sure you are provided the tools and knowledge to do your job, but I have no responsibility to prepare you to be a rookie. Some things you must do for yourself.

                      Everything I can legally find, I will use, whether you give it to me or not. Anything I can legally discover is fair game. The more you can tell me about yourself, might offset some of the questions that I may have. I want to see a candidate that is confident, makes good eye contact, and shows respect. If you try to blow smoke or impress me with how special you are, you lose points. This does not mean you shouldn't sell yourself. I want you to convince me that I can't live without you. I want honesty and humbleness. I want enthusiasm and energy. The Chief Interview may be the last hurdle but I reserve the right to bounce you if you blow it.

                      So minding your store after age 18 is the best advice I can give anyone who wants to become firefighter.

                      Finish school and strive to be better-than-average with your grades. Yes, it is considered.

                      Keep your driving record clean, it does count.

                      Be concerned who you associate with; many times you can become involved in an issue because of your "good" friends.

                      Be active in civic enterprises and clubs.


                      muddrow22: If ya think this crowd is tuff, ya aint seen nuthin' yet.
                      (Yeah... I know, bad grammer and spelling to make a point).

                      You asked for opinions, and you got it. Be careful what you ask for, especially around here.
                      HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Once OWI is really bad. Two is a pattern. I suspect that your background investigation will reveal a history of heavy drinking. I agree with the others who encourage you to find another line of work.....
                        Paul Lepore
                        Division Chief
                        Paul Lepore
                        Battalion Chief
                        www.aspiringfirefighters.com

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Muddrow- I would be very careful with the "it's just a forum" mindset when it comes down to forums dealing with your career. There is NO telling who is reading these boards. The entire staff of the department you are applying for could be reading this very thread, where you have certainly squashed any and all hope with immature responses. Would you hire the person who asks what they need to do to try and clear their record to better their chances, or the guy who "wow wow wow"'s at a lot of veteran firefighters? Just my two cents

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by RMammelli View Post
                            Muddrow- I would be very careful with the "it's just a forum" mindset when it comes down to forums dealing with your career. There is NO telling who is reading these boards. The entire staff of the department you are applying for could be reading this very thread, where you have certainly squashed any and all hope with immature responses. Would you hire the person who asks what they need to do to try and clear their record to better their chances, or the guy who "wow wow wow"'s at a lot of veteran firefighters? Just my two cents
                            Keep in mind it’s not uncommon now once you get into backgrounds in the hiring process for the investigator to ask you if you’ve been on any Internet web sites, which ones and what your username is. Can your postings pass a review to be considered to go forward in the hiring process?

                            A chief told me recently they had candidates in the last stages of the hiring process and found on the Internet where they posted unfavorable information. These candidates were not hired.

                            BTW:

                            Before Muddrow22 edited this posting:

                            Originally posted by muddrow22 View Post
                            wow wow wow
                            He posted this cute message:

                            Here is the message that has just been posted:
                            ***************

                            Originally posted by muddrow22 View Post
                            wow kiss my white ***
                            ***************
                            Last edited by CaptBob; 09-16-2010, 01:09 PM.
                            _____________________________________________

                            "Nothing counts 'til you have the badge . . . Nothing!"

                            More Tips on getting hired and promoted by Firehouse Contributing Author Fire “Captain Bob” Articles here:
                            http://www.firehouse.com/contact/10544410/bob-smith


                            Fire "Captain Bob"

                            www.eatstress.com

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by CaptBob View Post
                              Keep in mind it’s not uncommon now once you get into backgrounds in the hiring process for the investigator to ask you if you’ve been on any Internet web sites, which ones and what your username is. Can your postings pass a review to be considered to go forward in the hiring process?

                              A chief told me recently they had candidates in the last stages of the hiring process and found on the Internet where they posted unfavorable information. These candidates were not hired.

                              BTW:

                              Before Muddrow22 edited this posting:



                              He posted this cute message:

                              Here is the message that has just been posted:
                              ***************



                              ***************



                              Correct and he changed it before the web team could see it, therefore they can't do anything about that now.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I'm getting the feeling this guy isn't firefighter material. If he can't maintain his composure on a forum how is he going to make it in a firehouse? I was always taught...... Don't ask the question if you don't want the answer. Maybe he should take that advice.

                                Comment

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