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  • #16
    Attempting to be understanding...

    ...and offer a real answer.

    If you needed a double thickness of nomex (or carbon fiber, whatever) don't you think that hoods would be made with a double thickness of material?
    Last edited by randsc; 02-16-2007, 10:29 AM. Reason: to remove prophylactic analogy inappropriate for juniors

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    • #17
      IT NEVER STOPS...............................


      Two hoods are just not needed.


      Read FF 1 and 2. It will answer most of these questions.
      I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
      "Chet, get an inch and a half on that!"

      "Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by firefighter1962 View Post
        I’ll try to help you out here. The reason I where only one hood is so that I can get a gauge on how hot it is within the compartment. When I can a feel for the temperature, it’s one of the tools I use to recognize conditions and when I need to manage the hot gases above my head (i.e. advance quicker, advance cautiously, get ready to retreat, etc).

        Stay Safe
        that was the first intelligent post of this entire thread. And I completly agree. The only time we ever wear two hoods is during training, in a controlled enviorment, where you know you aren't in any real danger.
        Career Firefighter
        Volunteer Captain

        -Professional in Either Role-

        Originally posted by Rescue101
        I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by GTRider245 View Post
          that was the first intelligent post of this entire thread. And I completly agree. The only time we ever wear two hoods is during training, in a controlled enviorment, where you know you aren't in any real danger.

          What? I don't wear two hoods, but where have you been? There are MANY examles of firefighters injured or killed in live fire training. Here are a few stories connected with a recent example.

          http://cms.firehouse.com/content/art...Id=39&id=53461

          http://cms.firehouse.com/content/art...9&sectionId=46

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          • #20
            what?

            Originally posted by GTRider245 View Post
            that was the first intelligent post of this entire thread. And I completly agree. The only time we ever wear two hoods is during training, in a controlled enviorment, where you know you aren't in any real danger.
            Seems a bit backward's to me. Why on earth would you wear two hoods during training? Then again, why on earth would you ever wear two hoods? The replies to the original post have been mostly made jokingly because wearing two hoods is just that, a joke?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by callaway75 View Post
              Seems a bit backward's to me. Why on earth would you wear two hoods during training? Then again, why on earth would you ever wear two hoods? The replies to the original post have been mostly made jokingly because wearing two hoods is just that, a joke?
              I agree. Theres no need to wear two hoods in any situation. As for a live burn being a "controlled environment" I think thats almost as much of a joke as wearing two hoods. There are pleanty of live burn injuries, and deaths each year, as someone above me recently pointed out.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by GTRider245 View Post
                that was the first intelligent post of this entire thread. And I completly agree. The only time we ever wear two hoods is during training, in a controlled enviorment, where you know you aren't in any real danger.
                Not in any real danger?

                One of the biggest problems I see with LFT is attitudes such as this.

                Live fire training, even in a "controlled environment" such as a fixed burn facility, is the most dangerous of any training that a fire department can conduct. The potential for a serious injury, or worse is greater during LFT than in virtually any other type of training scenario a department could engage in.

                Conditions can change in an instant, mistakes can still be made, unforeseen circumstances can rear their ugly heads, and what was originally a "routine" training exercise can suddenly become a catastrophic incident. Not at all unlike what happens in "real world" firefighting.

                Changing the mindset of those that think that ANY fire is truly a controlled environment is the first step in reducing the number of injuries and deaths from live fire training.

                So far as the wearing of two hoods goes. I can't see it...Ever.
                In training, if you need two hoods to protect yourself, your training in far too dangerous conditions.
                If you wear two hoods at a structure fire, your putting yourself in danger of not being able to react quickly enough to changing conditions within the structure.

                I wear only one (good quality) hood, and I do not use helmet ear flaps. I can feel when fire conditions begin to change, and if I feel that I'm starting to get blistered, I either get lower, or I get out.
                Too many firefighters these days it seems, are afraid to feel any heat at all. They have to realize their ears can be used for more than just listening in a fire.




                Kevin
                Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
                IAFF Local 2339
                K of C 4th Degree
                "LEATHER FOREVER"
                Member I.A.C.O.J.
                http://www.tfdfire.com/
                "Fir na tine"

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                • #23
                  I can barely stand wearing one hood. I can't imagine using 2...

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by WVfire12 View Post
                    I can barely stand wearing one hood. I can't imagine using 2...

                    What exactly is so "unbearable" about wearing a hood?
                    NJ FFII/EMT-B

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                    • #25
                      I am a guy who has been around since hoods first came into the fire service. The first hoods were white single layer Nomex and we thought they were the best thing since sliced bread. They eliminated those painful neck and forehead burns around the mask. But they weren't perfect, they were very thin and stretched out of shape very easily. Soon other materials came on the scene, PBI, Kevlar, P-84 Lenzing, carbon fibers and blends.

                      My favorite is a 2 layer P-84 Lenzing. It has offered me great protection and is durbale and comfortable.

                      Where your hood and keep your ears and more protected. It is really that simple.

                      FyredUp
                      Crazy, but that's how it goes
                      Millions of people living as foes
                      Maybe it's not too late
                      To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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                      • #26
                        Ok, I should have been more clear. Those two instances are not what I was referring to. A "safe training enviorment" in my perspective is a burn building, the type of a building that is built for training burns and that alone. The building itself cannot catch fire, therefore conditions are much more controllable. Burning in a building that has been set aside to burn becuase it isnt good for anything else is an entirely different story.

                        Even then, only the instructors would be the ones to wear double hoods, mostly for preference. They are exposed to the heat longer than we the firefighters who go through one or twice and are sometimes closer to the fire itself.
                        Career Firefighter
                        Volunteer Captain

                        -Professional in Either Role-

                        Originally posted by Rescue101
                        I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by GTRider245 View Post
                          Ok, I should have been more clear. Those two instances are not what I was referring to. A "safe training enviorment" in my perspective is a burn building, the type of a building that is built for training burns and that alone. The building itself cannot catch fire, therefore conditions are much more controllable. Burning in a building that has been set aside to burn becuase it isnt good for anything else is an entirely different story.

                          Even then, only the instructors would be the ones to wear double hoods, mostly for preference. They are exposed to the heat longer than we the firefighters who go through one or twice and are sometimes closer to the fire itself.
                          Thanks for clarifying that.

                          I guess I am one of those instructors that your referring to. Sometimes I may spend as much a 40 minutes, or more inside at a single stretch. Lighting and tending the fire until optimum interior temperatures (as indicated by fixed thermocouples and a TIC) are reached, and then staying in as an interior safety officer during an evolution. I still don't advocate wearing 2 hoods.
                          And as I stated above, I don't even like to use helmet flaps. I can feel some heat, but I have yet to be burned through my hood. I have been blistered a little on rare occasion if there is a gap around the mask, but that's my fault for, not the hood's.




                          Kevin
                          Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
                          IAFF Local 2339
                          K of C 4th Degree
                          "LEATHER FOREVER"
                          Member I.A.C.O.J.
                          http://www.tfdfire.com/
                          "Fir na tine"

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            It seems to me like they would sell hoods in pairs if you were supposed to wear two.

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                            • #29
                              this is the first i've heard of double hoods i really dont like it all you need is one by the time 2 hoods would be effective you would be toast some of the real old school guys on my department dont like to wear hoods at all not sure if this is true but i heard one guy tough as nails got burns all over his head from this practice

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                              • #30
                                Punctuation and grammar please young man. This is not Myspace,Yahoo,or MSN messenger.
                                I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
                                "Chet, get an inch and a half on that!"

                                "Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

                                Comment

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