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  • #46
    Originally posted by dmleblanc View Post
    Whether or not the fire department bills for its' services has absolutely no bearing on HIPAA regulations. From our standpoint, HIPAA has a great deal to do with protecting the privacy of the patient. You are not allowed to share information about a patient unless A) you have the patient's permission, or B) it is shared with another health care provider relevant to the patient's care (or the provider's safety). Whether you are billing them has zip to do with it.
    Chief--with all due respect, you are dead wrong on this one. You need to go review the official OHS (US Office of Health Services) website and see for yourself. They have a very helpful "matrix" linked off their main page that helps determine whether you fall under HIPAA or not and it very clearly states that if you do not bill for medical services rendered, you are not a "covered organization". Period.
    Therefore it has everything to do with it.

    What your department sets as its policy is your business as the Chief... you obviously have the right to set whatever policy you see fit.

    However, don't confuse department policy with federal law, it does a disservice to everyone who comes here looking for information.
    Last edited by the1141man; 02-09-2007, 07:28 AM.
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

    Comment


    • #47
      In fact, being in a generous mood, I'll even link the Covered Entity Chart from the OHS website.
      Now, if you'll kindly look at page 3 of the document, it has a flowchart, the first box of which asks: "Does the person, business, or entity furnish, bill or receive payment for, health care in the normal course of business?"
      One might argue that you're "furnishing" services, despite the fact that as a governmental organization, your department doesn't conduct a "course of business" (ie-receiving compensation for providing goods or services to clientele).
      BUT, just to satisfy the HIPAA Harrys out there, we'll "play it safe" and say YES.

      On to the next question: "Does the person, business, or agency transmit (send) any covered transactions electronically?"

      Now wait one...what exactly is a "covered transaction"...well, go down to the endnotes beginning page 7 of the linked document, and voila. All the definitions of every type of "covered transaction"... now, keep in mind, that every definition therein references either payment or request for/between insurance plans/companies.

      Therefore, if you're not charging for the medical services, you don't have any "covered transactions" to transmit, electronic or otherwise!!! The correct answer to question 2 is NO.

      Following the flowchart (back on page 3 now), if you answer NO to either question 1 or 2, then you are, read along here, not a covered entity.

      End of discussion about HIPAA.

      You may now return to meaningless gabble about juniors responding POV and using lights...


      PS--can you all tell that nothing irritates me more than being "corrected" when I know I'm right about something? Before you decide to "correct" someone, make sure you've got the facts straight first...it saves you both a lot of irritation in the end.
      Last edited by the1141man; 02-09-2007, 08:01 AM.
      My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

      IACOJ--West Coast PITA

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by the1141man View Post
        In fact, being in a generous mood, I'll even link the Covered Entity Chart from the OHS website.
        Now, if you'll kindly look at page 3 of the document, it has a flowchart, the first box of which asks: "Does the person, business, or entity furnish, bill or receive payment for, health care in the normal course of business?"
        One might argue that you're "furnishing" services, despite the fact that as a governmental organization, your department doesn't conduct a "course of business" (ie-receiving compensation for providing goods or services to clientele).
        BUT, just to satisfy the HIPAA Harrys out there, we'll "play it safe" and say YES.

        On to the next question: "Does the person, business, or agency transmit (send) any covered transactions electronically?"

        Now wait one...what exactly is a "covered transaction"...well, go down to the endnotes beginning page 7 of the linked document, and voila. All the definitions of every type of "covered transaction"... now, keep in mind, that every definition therein references either payment or request for/between insurance plans/companies.

        Therefore, if you're not charging for the medical services, you don't have any "covered transactions" to transmit, electronic or otherwise!!! The correct answer to question 2 is NO.

        Following the flowchart (back on page 3 now), if you answer NO to either question 1 or 2, then you are, read along here, not a covered entity.

        End of discussion about HIPAA.

        You may now return to meaningless gabble about juniors responding POV and using lights...


        PS--can you all tell that nothing irritates me more than being "corrected" when I know I'm right about something? Before you decide to "correct" someone, make sure you've got the facts straight first...it saves you both a lot of irritation in the end.

        You sir are wrong.

        A transaction is a covered transaction if it meets the regulatory definition for the type of transaction. These definitions for each type of covered transaction are provided below:
        45 C.F.R.162.1101: Health care claims or equivalent encounter information transaction is either of the following:
        (a) A request to obtain payment, and necessary accompanying information, from a health care provider to a health plan, for health care.
        (b) If there is no direct claim, because the reimbursement contract is based on a mechanism other than charges or reimbursement rates for specific
        services, the transaction is the transmission of encounter information for the purpose of reporting health care.
        i.e run reports
        Last edited by swfire42; 02-09-2007, 08:56 AM.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by swfire42 View Post
          You sir are wrong.

          A transaction is a covered transaction if it meets the regulatory definition for the type of transaction. These definitions for each type of covered transaction are provided below:
          45 C.F.R.162.1101: Health care claims or equivalent encounter information transaction is either of the following:
          (a) A request to obtain payment, and necessary accompanying information, from a health care provider to a health plan, for health care.
          (b) If there is no direct claim, because the reimbursement contract is based on a mechanism other than charges or reimbursement rates for specific
          services, the transaction is the transmission of encounter information for the purpose of reporting health care.
          i.e run reports
          Do you "transmit" your run reports or do you drop them off at the recieving agency???

          I say that "if" you hand carry these run reports, then you "do not" fall under HIPAA. JMHO
          Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

          Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

          ** "The comments made here are this person's views and possibly that of the organizations to which I am affiliated" **

          Comment


          • #50
            As for all the HIPAA stuff.....what does it really matter? Either way you should not discuss any personal information about a pt, with anyone not involved with the call. Keep it with the call, if you bring it up...outside of training (even then you don't use the pts name) and word gets back to the pt...you have a legal mess no one wants. Why argue details? Who really cares who is right or wrong?
            The thoughts and opinions posted here are mine and mine alone and do not reflect the thoughts and or views of city or dept affiliation.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by swfire42 View Post
              You sir are wrong.

              A transaction is a covered transaction if it meets the regulatory definition for the type of transaction. These definitions for each type of covered transaction are provided below:
              45 C.F.R.162.1101: Health care claims or equivalent encounter information transaction is either of the following:
              (a) A request to obtain payment, and necessary accompanying information, from a health care provider to a health plan, for health care.
              (b) If there is no direct claim, because the reimbursement contract is based on a mechanism other than charges or reimbursement rates for specific
              services, the transaction is the transmission of encounter information for the purpose of reporting health care.
              i.e run reports

              No, I'm not wrong. Unless you cut out something between "the reimbursement contract is based on a mechanism other than charges..." and what you highlighted, then the two are connected.
              English 101--what you highlighted is called a subordinate clause, and it depends on the main clause, to wit (or lack thereof): "IF there is no direct claim, because the reimbursement contract is based on a mechanism other than charges, " blah blah, etc etc... it is still talking about REIMBURSEMENT aka PAYMENT.

              If your agency DOES NOT CHARGE for your service, you DO NOT fall under HIPAA!!!!

              NOW, there is a whole thread dedicated to this topic over in the EMS Liability forum. If you want to get hammered further on legal technicalities, why don't you join the war over there and let's let the juniors/explorers get back to discussing turning their POVs into mobile Christmas light displays, ok?
              My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

              IACOJ--West Coast PITA

              Comment


              • #52
                Wow...nothing like killing a thread with the I'm right...no I'm right stuff. Move On already. Quick and easy...Don't discuss pt information at all!
                The thoughts and opinions posted here are mine and mine alone and do not reflect the thoughts and or views of city or dept affiliation.

                Comment


                • #53
                  My pharmacy is HIPAA compliant. Found that out when I went to get my Antibiotics. For the short time I have been here it is interesting how many HIPAA threads I have seen in the explorers area. and mobile Christmas light displays scare me. Don't even think that is legal unless you are a volunteer or paid.
                  "...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
                  For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
                  Shall be my brother;..." - King Henry V - Shakespeare

                  Originally posted by Catch22
                  It's not the brightest thing to come into a topic and try to provoke a bunch of guys/gals with more time on the firehouse crapper than you do in the firehouse.
                  "crispitycrunchitypeanutbuttery t0ast" - DFurtman

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    i live in a small town where everyone kives RIGHT BY station. its not like the first one whos there leaves, the cpt(who lives right besides the dept) goes to the station, gets ALL the facts. by that time everybody is usally there. the only time we respond in povs is if we arent at home. geees calm down guys, seriously the farthest a person lives is 1 block.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      and first off im not an explorer, im a jr ff, second, i dont see a problem with drivin to a scene in a pov. we cant speed, we drive the speed limit, yes the adrenaline is pumping, but dang dude we can control it. third, the only "liability" issue is we cant go within x amount of feet of a stuctural fire. i dont live in an enviroment where the chief, ***. chief, and cpts nick pick every detail. and what do JR FFs do at a scene, well lets see here, traffic control, learning the engine, filling and unfilling of the pumpers, and ,my personal favorite, cleanin up and packin up ready to go home, that is what we do ON SCENE!!!
                      Last edited by jrscvfs; 02-11-2007, 09:46 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by jrscvfs View Post
                        and first off im not an explorer, im a jr ff, second, i dont see a problem with drivin to a scene in a pov. we cant speed, we drive the speed limit, yes the adrenaline is pumping, but dang dude we can control it. third, the only "liability" issue is we cant go within x amount of feet of a stuctural fire. i dont live in an enviroment where the chief, ***. chief, and cpts nick pick every detail. and what do JR FFs do at a scene, well lets see here, traffic control, learning the engine, filling and unfilling of the pumpers, and ,my personal favorite, cleanin up and packin up ready to go home, that is what we do ON SCENE!!!
                        OK, tell me why a junior/fire explorer/space cadet should go to the scene in their pov again? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for an active program for jrs/explorers, but I have NEVER heard of them going in POV's to the scene. What does it accomplish? Not sure if this has been covered, and I know im opening up a can of worms here, but please tell me that you DO NOT have lights/sirens in your POV.


                        .....***. chief.........
                        Josh, are you on this guys department too?????
                        ------------------------------------
                        These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
                        ------------------------------------

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by jrscvfs View Post
                          and first off im not an explorer, im a jr ff, second, i dont see a problem with drivin to a scene in a pov. we cant speed, we drive the speed limit, yes the adrenaline is pumping, but dang dude we can control it. third, the only "liability" issue is we cant go within x amount of feet of a stuctural fire. i dont live in an enviroment where the chief, ***. chief, and cpts nick pick every detail. and what do JR FFs do at a scene, well lets see here, traffic control, learning the engine, filling and unfilling of the pumpers, and ,my personal favorite, cleanin up and packin up ready to go home, that is what we do ON SCENE!!!
                          You have kids doing traffic control? Holy crap. Guess the cops aren't as qualified as a fire explorer or junior firefighter.

                          An engine can be learned at the firehouse. If the chauffer is teaching you how to run the pump, is he really watching the pressure in his lines properly?

                          Wow, I'm starting to get scared.
                          Co 11
                          Virginia Beach FD

                          Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

                          'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            jrscvfs....I'll agree with RFRD here. It is good to be involved and active as a jf FF, but there are still issues out there that your program and department should look into.

                            First...do you have any certifications? There is a limit on what you can do and if going to far there can be legal issues. Your chief, asst chief, and officers should look into this...to not be a concern is the wrong attitude.

                            Second....traffic control...where? highway?, city street?, rural route? do you have safety vests? I in good faith would NEVER send an Explorer or jr FF to do this. Way too many people more concerned with the scene, not you....too many FF's were killed this way.

                            And really still...why take a POV to the scene? You should limit your clean up and help to the station...if you don't make it out on a rig...you don't go out. Wait at the station....if it is a burner...get the stuff set up to clean hoses. Have stuff ready to go when the crew gets back. If more than one rig at the station, wait until another FF gets there, then ride to the scene. I just can not see any reason whatsoever for an uncertified jr FF or Explorer to take a POV to a scene. To say you drive the speed limit and everything and you can control it...fine. But lets be realistic here...I was young once too and I know you truly are not going the speed limit(I don't always either)...you'll push it more and more...the problem is your mind is still on the scene, this is still a liability.

                            I know this won't change your mind, but I would really hope this get looked at different. I would hate to see some headlines here of how a jr FF was killed driving to the scene...to just help with traffic control and clean up. It has happened once....why let it happen again?

                            You're young and eager now...that is good....but save the emergency scene stuff until the day you do get certified.
                            The thoughts and opinions posted here are mine and mine alone and do not reflect the thoughts and or views of city or dept affiliation.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              ok first, lets do qualifications, i have completed ff1 and ff2 and am cpr certified, not that it matters but am a lifeguard in the summer. traffic control is only done on minimum traffic streets with supervision by either a ff or police officer. and yes i have a vest.ok now to the topic, povs, no i do not have lights, second, the only time we respond in povs is when we r not at home, we dont speed, when we get to the call we usually park outta the way. this is called a small rural department. we dont operate in heavy traffic areas. you know what this accomplishes, getting to the fire. about the engines, yes we are under supervision, but its called on the job training, doin it at the staion is way different than when its 0 degrees outside and snowin. we dont run the whole thing, we r watched and we only do that when its a brush fire or somethin small, not a 3 alarm fire. cleanup is our main job, both at the scene and at the station. there is no harm in loadin a hose or loading tools, dont worry, we know how to do it, along from ff1 and 2 the staion does a training/classroom once a month. we arent abunch of kids running around, horseplay is not allowed and is zero tolerance. we have to be fully alert. and yes, our capts, cheifs and assistants are knowing of what is legal and whats not. departments are not all the same. safety is the main goal and should be anywhere, if we're doin somethin wrong, then i havent had any official tell me otherwise. we may do some things wrong, but safety is always first.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                believe me, i am relly not ryin to tick anybody, its just the way it is here
                                Last edited by jrscvfs; 02-12-2007, 07:44 PM.

                                Comment

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