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  • DocVBFDE14
    replied
    Originally posted by jrscvfs View Post
    and first off im not an explorer, im a jr ff, second, i dont see a problem with drivin to a scene in a pov. we cant speed, we drive the speed limit, yes the adrenaline is pumping, but dang dude we can control it. third, the only "liability" issue is we cant go within x amount of feet of a stuctural fire. i dont live in an enviroment where the chief, ***. chief, and cpts nick pick every detail. and what do JR FFs do at a scene, well lets see here, traffic control, learning the engine, filling and unfilling of the pumpers, and ,my personal favorite, cleanin up and packin up ready to go home, that is what we do ON SCENE!!!
    You have kids doing traffic control? Holy crap. Guess the cops aren't as qualified as a fire explorer or junior firefighter.

    An engine can be learned at the firehouse. If the chauffer is teaching you how to run the pump, is he really watching the pressure in his lines properly?

    Wow, I'm starting to get scared.

    Leave a comment:


  • backsteprescue
    replied
    Originally posted by jrscvfs View Post
    and first off im not an explorer, im a jr ff, second, i dont see a problem with drivin to a scene in a pov. we cant speed, we drive the speed limit, yes the adrenaline is pumping, but dang dude we can control it. third, the only "liability" issue is we cant go within x amount of feet of a stuctural fire. i dont live in an enviroment where the chief, ***. chief, and cpts nick pick every detail. and what do JR FFs do at a scene, well lets see here, traffic control, learning the engine, filling and unfilling of the pumpers, and ,my personal favorite, cleanin up and packin up ready to go home, that is what we do ON SCENE!!!
    OK, tell me why a junior/fire explorer/space cadet should go to the scene in their pov again? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for an active program for jrs/explorers, but I have NEVER heard of them going in POV's to the scene. What does it accomplish? Not sure if this has been covered, and I know im opening up a can of worms here, but please tell me that you DO NOT have lights/sirens in your POV.


    .....***. chief.........
    Josh, are you on this guys department too?????

    Leave a comment:


  • jrscvfs
    replied
    and first off im not an explorer, im a jr ff, second, i dont see a problem with drivin to a scene in a pov. we cant speed, we drive the speed limit, yes the adrenaline is pumping, but dang dude we can control it. third, the only "liability" issue is we cant go within x amount of feet of a stuctural fire. i dont live in an enviroment where the chief, ***. chief, and cpts nick pick every detail. and what do JR FFs do at a scene, well lets see here, traffic control, learning the engine, filling and unfilling of the pumpers, and ,my personal favorite, cleanin up and packin up ready to go home, that is what we do ON SCENE!!!
    Last edited by jrscvfs; 02-11-2007, 08:46 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • jrscvfs
    replied
    i live in a small town where everyone kives RIGHT BY station. its not like the first one whos there leaves, the cpt(who lives right besides the dept) goes to the station, gets ALL the facts. by that time everybody is usally there. the only time we respond in povs is if we arent at home. geees calm down guys, seriously the farthest a person lives is 1 block.

    Leave a comment:


  • t0asty
    replied
    My pharmacy is HIPAA compliant. Found that out when I went to get my Antibiotics. For the short time I have been here it is interesting how many HIPAA threads I have seen in the explorers area. and mobile Christmas light displays scare me. Don't even think that is legal unless you are a volunteer or paid.

    Leave a comment:


  • jccrabby3084
    replied
    Wow...nothing like killing a thread with the I'm right...no I'm right stuff. Move On already. Quick and easy...Don't discuss pt information at all!

    Leave a comment:


  • the1141man
    replied
    Originally posted by swfire42 View Post
    You sir are wrong.

    A transaction is a covered transaction if it meets the regulatory definition for the type of transaction. These definitions for each type of covered transaction are provided below:
    45 C.F.R.162.1101: Health care claims or equivalent encounter information transaction is either of the following:
    (a) A request to obtain payment, and necessary accompanying information, from a health care provider to a health plan, for health care.
    (b) If there is no direct claim, because the reimbursement contract is based on a mechanism other than charges or reimbursement rates for specific
    services, the transaction is the transmission of encounter information for the purpose of reporting health care.
    i.e run reports

    No, I'm not wrong. Unless you cut out something between "the reimbursement contract is based on a mechanism other than charges..." and what you highlighted, then the two are connected.
    English 101--what you highlighted is called a subordinate clause, and it depends on the main clause, to wit (or lack thereof): "IF there is no direct claim, because the reimbursement contract is based on a mechanism other than charges, " blah blah, etc etc... it is still talking about REIMBURSEMENT aka PAYMENT.

    If your agency DOES NOT CHARGE for your service, you DO NOT fall under HIPAA!!!!

    NOW, there is a whole thread dedicated to this topic over in the EMS Liability forum. If you want to get hammered further on legal technicalities, why don't you join the war over there and let's let the juniors/explorers get back to discussing turning their POVs into mobile Christmas light displays, ok?

    Leave a comment:


  • jccrabby3084
    replied
    As for all the HIPAA stuff.....what does it really matter? Either way you should not discuss any personal information about a pt, with anyone not involved with the call. Keep it with the call, if you bring it up...outside of training (even then you don't use the pts name) and word gets back to the pt...you have a legal mess no one wants. Why argue details? Who really cares who is right or wrong?

    Leave a comment:


  • THEFIRENUT
    replied
    Originally posted by swfire42 View Post
    You sir are wrong.

    A transaction is a covered transaction if it meets the regulatory definition for the type of transaction. These definitions for each type of covered transaction are provided below:
    45 C.F.R.162.1101: Health care claims or equivalent encounter information transaction is either of the following:
    (a) A request to obtain payment, and necessary accompanying information, from a health care provider to a health plan, for health care.
    (b) If there is no direct claim, because the reimbursement contract is based on a mechanism other than charges or reimbursement rates for specific
    services, the transaction is the transmission of encounter information for the purpose of reporting health care.
    i.e run reports
    Do you "transmit" your run reports or do you drop them off at the recieving agency???

    I say that "if" you hand carry these run reports, then you "do not" fall under HIPAA. JMHO

    Leave a comment:


  • swfire42
    replied
    Originally posted by the1141man View Post
    In fact, being in a generous mood, I'll even link the Covered Entity Chart from the OHS website.
    Now, if you'll kindly look at page 3 of the document, it has a flowchart, the first box of which asks: "Does the person, business, or entity furnish, bill or receive payment for, health care in the normal course of business?"
    One might argue that you're "furnishing" services, despite the fact that as a governmental organization, your department doesn't conduct a "course of business" (ie-receiving compensation for providing goods or services to clientele).
    BUT, just to satisfy the HIPAA Harrys out there, we'll "play it safe" and say YES.

    On to the next question: "Does the person, business, or agency transmit (send) any covered transactions electronically?"

    Now wait one...what exactly is a "covered transaction"...well, go down to the endnotes beginning page 7 of the linked document, and voila. All the definitions of every type of "covered transaction"... now, keep in mind, that every definition therein references either payment or request for/between insurance plans/companies.

    Therefore, if you're not charging for the medical services, you don't have any "covered transactions" to transmit, electronic or otherwise!!! The correct answer to question 2 is NO.

    Following the flowchart (back on page 3 now), if you answer NO to either question 1 or 2, then you are, read along here, not a covered entity.

    End of discussion about HIPAA.

    You may now return to meaningless gabble about juniors responding POV and using lights...


    PS--can you all tell that nothing irritates me more than being "corrected" when I know I'm right about something? Before you decide to "correct" someone, make sure you've got the facts straight first...it saves you both a lot of irritation in the end.

    You sir are wrong.

    A transaction is a covered transaction if it meets the regulatory definition for the type of transaction. These definitions for each type of covered transaction are provided below:
    45 C.F.R.162.1101: Health care claims or equivalent encounter information transaction is either of the following:
    (a) A request to obtain payment, and necessary accompanying information, from a health care provider to a health plan, for health care.
    (b) If there is no direct claim, because the reimbursement contract is based on a mechanism other than charges or reimbursement rates for specific
    services, the transaction is the transmission of encounter information for the purpose of reporting health care.
    i.e run reports
    Last edited by swfire42; 02-09-2007, 07:56 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • the1141man
    replied
    In fact, being in a generous mood, I'll even link the Covered Entity Chart from the OHS website.
    Now, if you'll kindly look at page 3 of the document, it has a flowchart, the first box of which asks: "Does the person, business, or entity furnish, bill or receive payment for, health care in the normal course of business?"
    One might argue that you're "furnishing" services, despite the fact that as a governmental organization, your department doesn't conduct a "course of business" (ie-receiving compensation for providing goods or services to clientele).
    BUT, just to satisfy the HIPAA Harrys out there, we'll "play it safe" and say YES.

    On to the next question: "Does the person, business, or agency transmit (send) any covered transactions electronically?"

    Now wait one...what exactly is a "covered transaction"...well, go down to the endnotes beginning page 7 of the linked document, and voila. All the definitions of every type of "covered transaction"... now, keep in mind, that every definition therein references either payment or request for/between insurance plans/companies.

    Therefore, if you're not charging for the medical services, you don't have any "covered transactions" to transmit, electronic or otherwise!!! The correct answer to question 2 is NO.

    Following the flowchart (back on page 3 now), if you answer NO to either question 1 or 2, then you are, read along here, not a covered entity.

    End of discussion about HIPAA.

    You may now return to meaningless gabble about juniors responding POV and using lights...


    PS--can you all tell that nothing irritates me more than being "corrected" when I know I'm right about something? Before you decide to "correct" someone, make sure you've got the facts straight first...it saves you both a lot of irritation in the end.
    Last edited by the1141man; 02-09-2007, 07:01 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • the1141man
    replied
    Originally posted by dmleblanc View Post
    Whether or not the fire department bills for its' services has absolutely no bearing on HIPAA regulations. From our standpoint, HIPAA has a great deal to do with protecting the privacy of the patient. You are not allowed to share information about a patient unless A) you have the patient's permission, or B) it is shared with another health care provider relevant to the patient's care (or the provider's safety). Whether you are billing them has zip to do with it.
    Chief--with all due respect, you are dead wrong on this one. You need to go review the official OHS (US Office of Health Services) website and see for yourself. They have a very helpful "matrix" linked off their main page that helps determine whether you fall under HIPAA or not and it very clearly states that if you do not bill for medical services rendered, you are not a "covered organization". Period.
    Therefore it has everything to do with it.

    What your department sets as its policy is your business as the Chief... you obviously have the right to set whatever policy you see fit.

    However, don't confuse department policy with federal law, it does a disservice to everyone who comes here looking for information.
    Last edited by the1141man; 02-09-2007, 06:28 AM.

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  • backsteprescue
    replied
    Originally posted by jccrabby3084 View Post
    jrscvsf....what kind of post do you belong to? And why would a fire dept wait for an Explorer to show up for a call if they can leave? And what would you as an Explorer be doing on a scene if you drove your POV?

    No reason at all for an Explorer to drive to the scene in a POV...What are you going to do? Then I can just imagine a 16, 17 year old driving to an emergency scene...adrenelin pumping want to get there quick....Sorry...You are a liability and an accident waiting to happen. Too bad your dept won't say it. And even if you are a jr FF...really what are you going to do at a scene? Is your dept hurting that bad?
    Basically what I was thinking.

    Also, do you have lights in your POV (sorry to open this can of worms guys!)

    Leave a comment:


  • jccrabby3084
    replied
    jrscvsf....what kind of post do you belong to? And why would a fire dept wait for an Explorer to show up for a call if they can leave? And what would you as an Explorer be doing on a scene if you drove your POV?

    No reason at all for an Explorer to drive to the scene in a POV...What are you going to do? Then I can just imagine a 16, 17 year old driving to an emergency scene...adrenelin pumping want to get there quick....Sorry...You are a liability and an accident waiting to happen. Too bad your dept won't say it. And even if you are a jr FF...really what are you going to do at a scene? Is your dept hurting that bad?

    Leave a comment:


  • dmleblanc
    replied
    Originally posted by the1141man View Post
    Well, if the department bills patients for providing service, I suppose that would be true.
    However, most FDs don't bill for medical-aid calls, therefore they would not be subject to HIPAA.
    Whether or not the fire department bills for its' services has absolutely no bearing on HIPAA regulations. From our standpoint, HIPAA has a great deal to do with protecting the privacy of the patient. You are not allowed to share information about a patient unless A) you have the patient's permission, or B) it is shared with another health care provider relevant to the patient's care (or the provider's safety). Whether you are billing them has zip to do with it.

    I would think that this is why AFDExplorer's post would not allow ride-alongs until after HIPAA training...you go on a ride-along (medical) you are going to see patients and you are going to know about their medical conditions, health history, injuries, etc. Explorers (and firefighters/First Responders too) need to have a clear understanding of what information is OK to share and what is not.

    Leave a comment:

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