Explorer Posts

[51E12GDS]

1. We are run through the boyscouts.
2. Yes, but we do large trainings, calls, and events together.
3. Any Explorer can ride any rig. On my 2nd week, I went on a call in the squad.
4. We are not allowed to go on a medical call unless we are a first responder, EMT, or are on the squad when the call comes in, like what happened to me.
5. We get new, safe helmets with old, beat-up gear from the 1980s.
6. We are not allowed inside a burning building unless we are Vermont Firefighter 1 or 2 certified.
7. We have 13 explorers. I am on the Vernon Volunteer Fire Company in Vernon, Vermont. We are Explorer Post 411. The department does about 150 fire and EMS calls per year. The town has a population of about 2,100 and houses the Vermont Yankee Nuclear Power Plant, where we cannot go into until we are 18, and the Vernon Hydro-Electric Dam, where we had a 1st alarm, smoke coming from the building, this morning. It was a false alarm.

[Chief310]

This is from the labor website

"The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) prohibits minors under age 18 years old to work in any occupation that it deems to be hazardous. Among these occupations are excavation, manufacturing explosives, mining, and operating many types of power-driven equipment. Certain industries allow minors under age 18 to perform certain tasks at worksites whose primary work activity is dangerous, but these tasks are very specific and the state and federal government closely monitor compliance."


OCCUPATIONS DEEMD TO BE HAZARDOUS


General.

570.51
Occupations in or about plants or establishments manufacturing or storing explosives or articles containing explosive components (Order 1).

570.52
Occupations of motor-vehicle driver and outside helper (Order 2).

570.53
Coal-mine occupations (Order 3).

570.54
Logging occupations and occupations in the operation of any sawmill, lath mill, shingle mill, or cooperage stock mill (Order 4).

570.55
Occupations involved in the operation of power-driven woodworking machines (Order 5).

570.57
Exposure to radioactive substances and to ionizing radiations (Order 6).

570.58
Occupations involved in the operation of power-driven hoisting apparatus (Order 7).

570.59
Occupations involved in the operations of power-driven metal forming, punching, and shearing machines (Order 8).

570.60
Occupations in connection with mining, other than coal (Order 9).

570.61
Occupations in the operation of power-driven meat-processing machines and occupations involving slaughtering, meat packing or processing, or

570.62
Occupations involved in the operation of bakery machines (Order 11).

570.63
Occupations involved in the operation of paper-products machines (Order 12).

570.64
Occupations involved in the manufacture of brick, tile, and kindred products (Order 13).

570.65
Occupations involved in the operations of circular saws, band saws, and guillotine shears (Order 14).

570.66
Occupations involved in wrecking, demolition, and shipbreaking operations (Order 15).

570.67
Occupations in roofing operations (Order 16).

570.68
Occupations in excavation operations (Order 17).


Authority: Secs. 3, 18, 52 Stat. 1060, 1069; 29 U.S.C. 203, 218

This is what I found as well. I noticed that firefighting & emergency services is not specifically mentioned in the "Hazardous" list. I wonder if that's an oversight or was it excluded on purpose.

[PFVFRWFD1]

Cont. Search for answers

This is from the labor website

"The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) prohibits minors under age 18 years old to work in any occupation that it deems to be hazardous. Among these occupations are excavation, manufacturing explosives, mining, and operating many types of power-driven equipment. Certain industries allow minors under age 18 to perform certain tasks at worksites whose primary work activity is dangerous, but these tasks are very specific and the state and federal government closely monitor compliance."


OCCUPATIONS DEEMD TO BE HAZARDOUS


General.

570.51
Occupations in or about plants or establishments manufacturing or storing explosives or articles containing explosive components (Order 1).

570.52
Occupations of motor-vehicle driver and outside helper (Order 2).

570.53
Coal-mine occupations (Order 3).

570.54
Logging occupations and occupations in the operation of any sawmill, lath mill, shingle mill, or cooperage stock mill (Order 4).

570.55
Occupations involved in the operation of power-driven woodworking machines (Order 5).

570.57
Exposure to radioactive substances and to ionizing radiations (Order 6).

570.58
Occupations involved in the operation of power-driven hoisting apparatus (Order 7).

570.59
Occupations involved in the operations of power-driven metal forming, punching, and shearing machines (Order 8).

570.60
Occupations in connection with mining, other than coal (Order 9).

570.61
Occupations in the operation of power-driven meat-processing machines and occupations involving slaughtering, meat packing or processing, or

570.62
Occupations involved in the operation of bakery machines (Order 11).

570.63
Occupations involved in the operation of paper-products machines (Order 12).

570.64
Occupations involved in the manufacture of brick, tile, and kindred products (Order 13).

570.65
Occupations involved in the operations of circular saws, band saws, and guillotine shears (Order 14).

570.66
Occupations involved in wrecking, demolition, and shipbreaking operations (Order 15).

570.67
Occupations in roofing operations (Order 16).

570.68
Occupations in excavation operations (Order 17).


Authority: Secs. 3, 18, 52 Stat. 1060, 1069; 29 U.S.C. 203, 218

[KTorak]

I'd have to look for it, but i'm pretty sure your Learning for Life Insurance prohibits dangerous activities and places limitations on the equipment you can use. They even go as far as not covering paintball activies. We discovered this when we planned a post trip, we just went as a post but didnt recongnize the event as a post event.

Well, as quoted from the Learning for Life website, I think their guidelines place limits on the activities of Explorers, but i'm still looking for the other link.

Fire and Emergency
Explorers may not be substituted for trained personnel, can only be mobilized as a post with leadership, and are not on call individually. When riding, they must be seated with a seat belt (never on the back of a fire truck standing) and cannot drive a department vehicle. Clear and specific departmental guidelines must be written on what an Explorer may do at the site of an emergency.

From: http://www.learning-for-life.org/exploring/index.html

Ok, I found the link for prohibited activites for Fire Explorers, here you go: http://www.learning-for-life.org/exp.../p-safety.html

The Gun clause is here (paintball): http://www.learning-for-life.org/lfl...afe/09.html#RA

[Chief310]

Department of Labor Website...

http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/youthla...quirements.htm

Hope this helps....

Thanks for the link, but I was still unable to find any specific federal prohibition with regard to firefighting. The statutes I was able to find there covered many specific hazardous occupations, but suprisingly enough, not firefighting.

Unless someone is able to quote chapter & verse, I'm going to assume it's a state issue, not federal.

BTW, I'm not advocating youth participation in fire suppression, I just want to make sure accurate information is posted. A lot of people ASSUME that there is a federal statute that prohibits the activity, but so far, nobody's been able to show me where it is.

[WaterbryVTfire]

Interesting! Can you tell me where in the Code of Federal Regulations that this law appears? I've always been told it's a state issue.

Department of Labor Website...

http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/youthla...quirements.htm

Hope this helps....

[IHVFD53]

1. Boyscouts
2. separate from volunteers
3. None (have to be out of middle school 15-21)
4. We do not have one
5. Uniform/ Bunker gear
6. No unless it is for training purposes
7. 4 explorers, only Liuetenant and I show up.

exact same!

[PFVFRWFD1]

Thanks

Well i got enough research.....i was doing this to try see what other posts have compared to ours. I apears we all have about the same SOP's. except riding on medic units. Our depatment does not allows us even when ur 16 or 17 even when ur 16or 17 with your EMT. Thanks for all your help!

Kyle
Explorer Post 1699
President

[MichaelD77]

My understanding is that any Explorer post is affiliated with the boy scouts. The other type of program is Jr. Firefighter. Guidelines for the Jr. FF program are set by the department and the Explorer program mandates that Explorers can or cannot do. This may be wrong, this is just how I interpreted what was told to me. Explorers goes up to the age of 21. No Explorer shall ever enter a burning building, however, they can ride on the first truck out. Many of the other guidelines are set at the discretion of the officer running the program. We receive a full set of PPE. It is actually the old equipment from the firefighters. The only other difference between our equipment and our firefighters equipment is our helmets say Explorer on the side and we don't have our names anywhere on our gear.

I'm a member of Explorer post #2128, right now we have around 8 members, 2 of which have been inactive and have not re-uped for this next period.

[CPMiller]

1. is your post run through the boyscouts or directly through the department? My program is run directly through the department, we looked at the Boyscouts/LFL program but do not have the minimum amount of people required.

2. is it seperate from your vounteers? Nope, I do what the full members do (that is what I am allowed to do according to SOPs/SOGs), and attend the same trainings during and after probationary period.

3. What are age limits for riding various apparatus? This is where things can get a little confusing, the program is open to 15-17 year olds (when 18 you become a full member). If it is training you can ride in apparatus, as long as you are in good standing. At 16 if you have the appropriate medical training (i.e. CPR, 1st Aid, 1st Responder) you can respond to medical calls. At 17 and a level 2 Junior firefighter you can respond to all calls on apparatus. Otherwise, you have to ride in a POV or stay at the station.

4. Can explorers ride the medic unit? Since ALS and medical transport is provided by a different agency you have to follow their rules.

5. What gear is issued? I am still wondering that myself, this program is just getting started and we are still trying to get all the bugs worked out and the paperwork finished. At my old department (who abolished their program) I got full bunkers, full wildland, and a uniform which consisted of a T-shirt and ball cap (it was a small volley dept.). I am guessing it will be similar at my current department.

6. Can properly trained explorers enter burning buildings? If you are 17 and a level 2, you can assist with fire supression and similar activities, but it is unclear on whether you can actually enter an involved structure.

7. How many explorers do you have and what department/city/state are you in? Central City Fire Department; Central City, Colorado. The maximum we can have is 5, right now we have only one who is accumulating training hours. There is one other interested, but no training record has been started for him yet.

[Chief310]

Unless an explorer is 18+ they cannot enter a dangerous enviro. EVEN with training. This is a federal law.

Interesting! Can you tell me where in the Code of Federal Regulations that this law appears? I've always been told it's a state issue.

[Chief310]

1. Our Explorer Post is affiliated with the boy scouts, but run by the fire department
2. We have no volunteer firefighters, everyone is part-time or paid-on-call. Our Explorers are our only true volunteers.
3. Our age limit is 14 for membership, including ride-along
4. Yes
5. Complete PPE including coat, pants, boots, helmet, hood & gloves. It's all surplus gear, but it's usually in decent shape.
6. No, our Explorers do not enter burning buildings. When our they become properly trained & certified, then they're no longer Explorers. They become regular members.
7. 11 - Northern Union Fire & EMS - Richwood, OH

[tfpd109]

Unless an explorer is 18+ they cannot enter a dangerous enviro. EVEN with training. This is a federal law.

Resq, you are right, but lets throw a little bit of a twist to it. Who decides if it is dangerous? I'm sure we'll all agree that entering a burning structure that we do not know can be dangerous, but how about a burn at a tower/training institute? Maybe any type of burn is considered danerous. I'm not trying to stir the pot, but it is something that your last post got me wondering about.

What do you Explorers think on this? Lets hear your opinions on this.

[Resq1scnd2none]

Unless an explorer is 18+ they cannot enter a dangerous enviro. EVEN with training. This is a federal law.

[PFVFRWFD1]

Recorrect

Correction!!! #6