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Scenario for the Juniors

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  • Scenario for the Juniors

    Things have been slow here so why not spark some discussion with a little scenario. This one has the added distinction of being a frequent question during many departments oral boards.

    The scenario is as follows:
    You are first due on a single family dwelling with heavy smoke and flames showing. There are parties trapped on both the "b" side and the "c" side, hanging out of windows. The next due unit is several minutes out. You only have the resources to save 1. Side "b" is a middle aged woman. Side "c" is a 12 year old male. Again, you can only save one. The other WILL die. There's nothing you can do to prevent the other one from dying. Don't make up additions to the scenario to save both, it cannot be done.

    Question: Who do you save, and why?

  • #2
    First thing I'd do... look at the guy with the white hat on...

    Seriously though, this is a tough call, but my answer would most likely be based on the principals of triage (IE: help the one I KNOW I could save.) Whichever one seemed more likely of living beyond the immediate future would be the one I'd grab. If, by some chance, it were equally likely, I'd grab the kid. Don't ask me why, just seems like the right thing to do.

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    • #3
      i completly agree with BPfire1618

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      • #4
        BPfire said it well. It would all depend on conditions etc for me I guess. This is a tough one. Kind of ironic, as we just had a question today in AP Psychology that said "You are in a boat with your 5 yr old son and 1 yr old son, your boat capsizes, you can only save one child, who do you pick??"



        Good thought with the scenario. We need more of these to spark some interest and thought in here. What about ones that ask what you would do as the officer of first arriving apparatus.... call for mutual aid, the next alarm, whatever you call it, assignments, etc, etc, etc.
        ------------------------------------
        These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
        ------------------------------------

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        • #5
          I would go for the younger boy. Even though you made it quite clear that the middle-aged lady would die for sure; I still think she would be able to make a better attempt of getting out of the structure on her own than the boy. Who knows, maybe she would survive then. I know it's going against what was said, but I don't see how it can be said that somebody will die for sure; there's always a chance.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Firetacoma1
            Things have been slow here so why not spark some discussion with a little scenario. This one has the added distinction of being a frequent question during many departments oral boards.

            The scenario is as follows:
            You are first due on a single family dwelling with heavy smoke and flames showing. There are parties trapped on both the "b" side and the "c" side, hanging out of windows. The next due unit is several minutes out. You only have the resources to save 1. Side "b" is a middle aged woman. Side "c" is a 12 year old male. Again, you can only save one. The other WILL die. There's nothing you can do to prevent the other one from dying. Don't make up additions to the scenario to save both, it cannot be done.

            Question: Who do you save, and why?
            single family dwelling, probably two stories (as most SFDs are), I wouldn't accept either of them dying. I would set up two ladders (4 person crew, split in half, two to each side) and perform both rescues.

            If I can't split my crew, then my ladder is going to save the middle aged woman. I'm going to tell the 12 yead old kid to jump. he's 12, he might break his leg/ankle or other body part. he's also maybe 20 feet from the ground (remember, his feet are probably only a few feet from the 1st floor window sill), so while he may have traumatic injuries, he will be alive. also keep in mind, how often do kids do stupid things that they escape with minimal bumps and bruises?

            it's a lose/lose situation. it's also completely unacceptable in my book. and note, I didn't add anything to the situation only used my resources to do my best to bring both people home. Don't like it? tough. But I know I would have trouble sleeping if my actions directly resulted in the death of another.

            you want an even harder question? how about this:

            you are 2nd due to a SFD, heavy fire, report of people trapped. first engine crew is inside (rescue operations take precedence over 2 in two out) when the fire flashes. the crew get seperated, and end up bailing out the windows, one on side B and the other on side C. they are hanging from the window sils.

            your truck is still 5 minutes outs. you have 3 men on your engine, which hanging FF's life are you willing to sacrifice?
            If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

            FF/EMT/DBP

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            • #7
              i know the answer to both of those questions (really nice answer parasite), but ill let the young guys answer this. if you get stumped really bad, ill give you a hint
              First in, Last out, nobody left behind.....

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              • #8
                Originally posted by DrParasite
                you are 2nd due to a SFD, heavy fire, report of people trapped. first engine crew is inside (rescue operations take precedence over 2 in two out) when the fire flashes. the crew get seperated, and end up bailing out the windows, one on side B and the other on side C. they are hanging from the window sils.

                your truck is still 5 minutes outs. you have 3 men on your engine, which hanging FF's life are you willing to sacrifice?

                First of all, which side has heavier fire? Second of all, why can't a crew of three raise two ladders? That is if you do have two on your truck.
                ------------------------------------
                These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
                ------------------------------------

                Comment


                • #9
                  This is BS....they are hanging out of he windows. Get both of them out ......But if this is just for juniors, then you are screwqed....don't do a thing cause you shouldn't be running as the first due anyway.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ehs7554
                    But if this is just for juniors, then you are screwqed....don't do a thing cause you shouldn't be running as the first due anyway.
                    Leave that out of it. Some places let them run on the 1st in, some don't. Keep it to the forum topic.


                    Anyways.

                    I agree with the idea of the kid jumping. Ladder the building for the old lady, and have the kid jump.
                    Originally posted by ThNozzleMan
                    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

                    I A C O J
                    FTM-PTB


                    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      .....arent there more then the two ff's on the engine?
                      First in, Last out, nobody left behind.....

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                      • #12
                        Nobody ever said it was a two story building did they? So no jumping, no ladder just fall into my arms.
                        J
                        It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hey guys. I dont like that last question. No matter what you have to do....
                          Everyone goes home. There is no question to it and there should never be

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ehs7554
                            This is BS....they are hanging out of he windows. Get both of them out ......But if this is just for juniors, then you are screwqed....don't do a thing cause you shouldn't be running as the first due anyway.

                            We are trying to discuss something here, to keep our brains occupied. Obviously you dont have anything relevant to add, so why dont you leave.

                            PS Still a Junior, and Im Still on the First Truck.

                            res54cuecaptain: Our minimum staffing for the first engine is a Driver, Officer (or senior FF) and two pack qualified FFs. So in some cases you may end up with only two FFs for the first minute or so, until the next due company (automatic dispatch) arrives, or our second due engine gets out.
                            Last edited by tbonetrexler; 10-16-2006, 02:37 PM.
                            Do a little dance, make a little rum, Italian Ice! Italian Ice!

                            Actual lyric: Do a little dance, make a little love, get down tonight, get down tonight.
                            (KC & The Sunshine Band "Do A Little Dance")

                            My thoughts are mine alone and do not represent the thoughts of any Organization to which I am affiliated.

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                            • #15
                              Tough decision.

                              IN this situation i would most likely save the boy because of his likely hood to live. He has a stronger will and his body fights off more of the chemicals and his lungs are more developed and not used as much. I havent seen much fire but more than likely i would save the boy.

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