rules for firefighters acting around explorers

[Quigger]

Let me give everyone who will read this a little bit of back ground on this. About a month ago a letter was brought up complaining about the guys that are in charge and help out with the explorer post actives. The explorers got the short end of the stick and your actives were suspened for 38 days ! We were allowed back to drills last thrusday on our normal drill/meeting night. We were told at the meeting about this letter and that most of the things said were false and some bought up "good points" about the actions of the fire fighters around explorers.(smokeing,swearing, and speeding)
Now there are new rules in place for the fire fighters like they cant smoke around us, if we come to the "smokeing spot" to hang out with the fire fighters and they are smokeing they must stop smokeing,They cant start FIRE TRUCKS when we are in the bay haveing a drill or just hanging out even if the doors are open, they are not allowed to have adult conversations(sp) with us and we cant join in on those conversations eithers. There is only 1 rule that i can understand and that is 2 or more fire fighters in the same room with explorer/s with closed doors. Im wondering if any other explorer posts have the same rules or have never heard of any of these and Im also looking for Fire Fighters look on these rules. I also can see me and the other members of these post being "outcasted" because of these rules and becoming disliked by the fire fighters.

[HFDEXP777]

seems a little extreme on the outside, but without knowing more details i wouldnt want to comment further. most of us hang out with the senior guys all the time. there arent any rules like that in place here.

[MFDExplorer51]

Nothing like that, smoking, "Adult" Talk, anything like isnt in effect here.

I am sure the circumstances that led to such actions had some sort of justification.

[nmfire]

The 2 Adult rule is part of the Boy Scout rules and if you didn't follow it before, you should have been. It is in place for a very good reason and you can't just decide not to follow it.

The smoking thing.. eh. It's never been a problem here, not sure what the big deal is there. "Adult Talk"? While I guess you have to draw the line since you ARE minors, have the people making the rules ever been to high school before? I don't know about you but the language at the firehouse is nothing compared to when I was in school when with my friends.

[Quigger]

The 2 Adult rule is part of the Boy Scout rules and if you didn't follow it before, you should have been. It is in place for a very good reason and you can't just decide not to follow it.

yea I have no problem with that rule and I understand why its there but the others are stupid and too much over the top if you ask me. these are the only ones that we have been told so far and for fire ground they are comeing up with more rules. None of the Explorers like these rules. If talked to 2 of the fire fighters and they both say that these rules are bs. When I can get a full list of these rules ill post them here to let you all see these rules.

but without knowing more details i wouldnt want to comment further.

Really all you need to know is 1 member of the dept. doesnt like some other members in the dept. and has been looking for ways to get them in troble or kicked out. We have never had any kind of a problem before with out these rules being in place.
What people must remember when they let their kids goto explorers is that they are at a fire station with fire fighters and they are adults and its an adult place not a preschool day camp! The fact that it was taken this extreme is one thing I cant figure out still. the letter was a bunch of bs and i know cause ive seen the letter.

[Dushore5741]

I'd have to see the actual rules to understand what you are saying. Not trying to offend you, but your paragraph is pushed together, and I don't really know what kind of point you were getting to. It kind of sounds like there needs to be a point of separation. The most inmportant part, is the members that do the rescues and fight the fires. If you put them in a situation where they don't want to be a part anymore, they'll quit. Maybe the problem is the explorers. If they are in the way or bothering the firefighters, it's simple. Don't allow them in the station. or set times when they can't be in there. It's true that the squeeky wheel gets oil first, but it also gets replaced first. Why would you make rules that pi** off the active, senior members? They are what makes the fire dept. Maybe only allow the explorers in for training and meetings. The fire house shouldn't be a club house.

That's how I think it should be. That may make people mad b/c "It's not fair"... But it's about safety, not what's fair and for whom.

[Quigger]

The explorers arent the problem. A member of the dept. has her 2 girls in the post. These meber also DOESNT LIKE the guys who help out with post actives. Her kids more then likey told her about them swearing and smoke during drill. Which is false because they dont swear or smoke during our drills or their drills. This member doesnt like the guys in charge and wrote a letter about how they are doing things in front of us(smokeing,swearing ect.) and as a result of it the post actives are shut down for 38 days, We are allowed back but cant goto the fire fighters drill(those of the explorers that can go) and we also cant goto calls(those of the explorers that can) for another 2-3 weeks while they come up with more rules for the fire fighters. There has NEVER been a problem with explorers hang out at the fire station before this letter came in.

my english/writeing skills suck alot try to deal with it.

[Bones42]

I'm wondering how 1 member that is upset can change/create rules for the whole department. Don't these get voted on at meetings and such? Doesn't anyone have the guts to stand up to this person and tell them it's ridiculous. If I had to have rules like these to allow my Explorer post to continue, I would disband the Explorer post. Something just ain't right here, or there is a lot more to this story.

[Quigger]

your right there is more then likey more to this story then what I and the rest of the explorers are being told along with the fire fighters. This member has writen letters before also about other things she doesnt like. The main reason im guessing for haveing these rules in place is to save their own butts because of they could be sued or some bs like that. When I can get a copy of these new rules ill post them here. Ill also try to find out why some many rules for a such a bs letter. I wont be able to do any of this untill tomorrow night when I have drill snice I cant goto calls untill they come up with more rules

[PAVolunteer]

This is only going to hurt the explorers. There is enough to do around the firehouse, and helping out with the explorer program is another item on the list. Make it difficult for the firemen to help out, and the firemen will make it difficult for the explorer program to exist.

Stay Safe

[EFD840]

In general, the rules seem excessive but just to play a little devil's advocate here, a couple of these issues could be based on good intentions.

First, lets look at 'adult' conversations. If you've got rated-X or maybe even rated-R conversations happening in common areas of your station then you may want to think about trying to get everyone to clean it up a bit. You never know when Mrs. Smith and little Timmy will be coming around the corner. You also never know when that sexual harassment complaint will arrive. Even if you're a vollie department, the rules still apply.

Second, the tobacco issue also may have some validity. Down here, tobacco use by anyone under 19 is illegal but many teens smoke and many more chew or dip (yes, I am from Alabama ). Is it possible that this rule exists because some of your juniors are joining in or being supplied by senior members?

Now for the start-the-truck rule. That makes no sense at all. Do you suppose they're afraid one of the explorers will jump in and take a spin around the block?

Hopefully your senior firefighters will understand that you guys didn't make the rules and not retaliate against the explorer program. If there are political motives at the heart of the change, I imagine they're already well aware of the situation and won't let it get them down.

[Quigger]

Well these rules seem to be affecting the fire fighters in a bad way. The guys who use would always talk to us are trying to stay away and so on. But some of the members know its bs and dont really care. I just hope that this doesnt make the guys who are always up there and goto almost all the calls not become upset because there are explorers up there.

[RspctFrmCalgary]

There's been one thing that's been bugging me about this since the thread started so I decided to finally post my opinion. Oh yeah I'm correcting the spelling mistakes in the quote I couldn't handle "smokeing"

if we come to the "smoking spot" to hang out with the fire fighters and they are smoking they must stop smoking,

This really bothers me. It doesn't shock me at all that the firefighters would have some resentment at these rules.

THE EXPLORERS SHOULD NOT BE GOING TO THE DESIGNATED SMOKING AREA!!

Man if I was one of those firefighters I'D BE ****ED RIGHT OFF!!!!!

I think it is admirable that the ones who make these rules don't want minors exposed to second hand smoke but a designated smoking area is just that. DESIGNATED! Perhaps the rule should read "NO Explorers are allowed in the smoking area".

[distchief60b]

I am glad someone else mentioned the spelling thing...whoa....how about that run on sentence??????

Anyway...as Bones42 says....I wonder how 1 memeber of the department who has an axe to grind is able to institute all this stuff...

As for the other things....like Rescpect says....If I was a smoker I would be a bit ticked too. Why do people who are not allowed to smoke need to be in a smoking area?????

As far as running the apparatus with folks in the bays...well..I think the OSHA has a bit to do with that and most departments have a rule that if you do not have some sort of exhaust system then you "will not" let apparatus run in the bays.

In today's world with kids and parents being the way they are and everyone being on the "law suit bandwagon" I am not sure it is even a good idea for even two people to be in the room with an explorer (door open or closed). I have witnessed some explorers being counseled outside on the apron near the street, but far enough away to be a private conversation. I did not ask...but I am assuming this first sentence in this paragraph was a contributing factor.

Yes...the explorers get the short end in this case...but...As someone else said..... There has got to be more to this story that we are not hearing....

Really all you need to know is 1 member of the dept. doesnt like some other members in the dept. and has been looking for ways to get them in troble or kicked out.

I am not buying this... With a statement like that....there has got to be a rat in the cheese bin somewhere.

[Quigger]

Yes i know my spelling and grammer isn't the greatest.

THE EXPLORERS SHOULD NOT BE GOING TO THE DESIGNATED SMOKING AREA!!

I know that none of you all know what the smoking spot is so ill tell you. Its a garden with a bench and 2 chairs in front of the radio room. Its not really the designated smoking area there is no designated smoking area. I also helped to build the garden and the bench/chairs so im not about to go sit some where else when I helped to build it and I bet you wouldnt go somewheres else also. I also brought the ashtray over so they wouldn't toss their butts on the ground.

This one member from what ive been told has been in some other depts. and has cause this same stuff. This isnt the first letter that they have wrote before either.

In today's world with kids and parents being the way they are and everyone being on the "law suit bandwagon"

This is the main reason they came up with these rules to cover their butts.

Yes there is more to this then you are being told but this is all that I know. When I get a copy of the rules ill post them here like ive said before.