Air Crash/Rescue

[Armyfirerescue]

Well, going with the whole "lets help train the juniors and explorers" thing, I'll post my own unique training thread. How much do any of you know about airport rescue and firefighting (ARFF)? Probably not much, and you aren't expected to know much if anything about it to be a structural firefighter. (Hence the different courses) But I believe that everyone should at least be aware of it, considering the growing amount of air show accidents, commercial plane crashes, etc. Obviously, vollie and most career departments won't have the necessary equipment to deal with an ARFF situation, but, if you have just a little training, you'll be able to make a difference. So, I ask of all you guys, who is interested in learning some stuff about aircraft rescue and firefighting?

Stay safe!

Matt

[backdraft663]

Sure! There is always room to learn more.

[FF881D]

I too am interested. Occasionaly they offer an ARFF class at a local fire school here. Next time they have it I am going to take it. I have even considered going into the Air Force as a firefighter but that most likely will not happen.

[SARfreak]

Don't know much about the firefighting aspect of aircraft crashes, but I've got a wealth of knowledge somewhere in this brain o' mine about pretty much anything else having to do with crashes. Most of the stuff I deal with is small aircraft dropping off into the side of a mountain, etc... so we don't usually have much fire to deal with by the time we get there. We do, however, sometimes call upon the local FD's for use of their extrication tools. Unlike airport rescue, we get to deal with planes/ helos that got all mangled in the trees as they came down or are embedded into rocks .

[amtrakphan]

I'm very interested in ARFF. My department has crash trucks at two airports; Miami International Airport and Opa-Locka. Given the chance, I would definitely ride at the Airport... however due to security constraints its probably more trouble then its worth. I used to ride on a truck just south of MIA, and we would run into the airport quite a bit on EMS calls... just that in itself is a unique experience.

If I'm ever lucky enough to get hired on my dept, I would definitely go for my ARFF certification, as well as HazMat Tech.

[MFDExplorer51]

Please, englighten me.

[Armyfirerescue]

OK, lets start out like the other forums start. I'll ask you a question, which you may or may not know, research it, whatever, find out the answer, and post it here.

1. What is considered the "rescue side" and "off rescue side" of an aircraft, and why?

2. What is AFFF and why do we use it for aircraft firefighting?

3. Where would you find possible Class D fires on all aircraft?

Happy hunting and stay safe!

Matt

[FyredUp]

Hey Armyfirerescue can I play?

FyredUp

[fieryred943]

Armyfirerescue....can I tag in? I have taken ARFF Training, although it has been 3 years since my training.

Let's see if I can remember: rescue side, side with no flame/smoke etc... which is going to be the side that your passengers will be leaving from? You will be pushing the fire away from this exit, in order to facilitate rescue(ie foam blanket) Off rescue would be smoke and flame showing.

AFFF-Aqueous Film Forming Foam good thick blanketing foam, keeps JetA fumes at bay. Doesn't break down quickly and it doesn't allow the wick affect to happen, if you are standing in a pool of fuel.

Class D Fire - Caught me off guard for a second but then the first thing that popped into my mind was Brakes?

Did I pass? Good to go over that stuff, my hall responds to the airport as support.

Stay safe, come home safe.

Red

[drparasite]

I think Class D has to do with magnesium fires, particularly magnesium engine blocks on cars. i don't remember which car used it (it was a while ago when i learned this), but it was pretty much how you weren't able to put water on them because a really bad (yet really cool visual from what i've been told) chemical reaaction occurs.

using that line of thinking, maybe in the jet engines of the planes? just a guess

[Armyfirerescue]

fyredup - Feel free to jump in at any time, this thread is for everybody.

fieryred943 - You are partially correct on the "rescue side, off rescue side" part, the way I learned it, was the rescue side was the side of the aircraft with your main entry door (usually the left side of the aircraft if you're looking at it head on). And your off rescue side was the side that didn't have a main exit door, but had emergency exits. Obviously, what you said is correct, about not pushing the fire over to the other side, and you would have to adjust your plan accordingly. You are completely correct on the AFFF and where you would find a class D fire on an aircraft. Brakes, sometimes, wheels, almost always! Some aircraft, especially fighter aircraft, you will find magnesium all over the plane. You passed. hehe.

DrParasite - You are correct with the magnesium engine block comment. Old VW Beetles had magnesium engine components, made fighting a car fire a whole lot more fun! Yeah, you never want to put water on a class D fire, especially magnesium, all you do is cause a huge shower of sparks, big light show, and spread the fire. That said, you'd use a purple K extinguisher.

Next set of questions...

1. Explain the shutdown procedures for an aircraft, in order, and explain why they are in that order.

2. What are the areas of the aircraft that should be avoided at all times by fire/rescue personnel? (and everyone, for that matter)

Happy hunting, and stay safe!

Matt

[BLSboy]

Hey, finally my training is worth something!!
In Melbourne Int`l Airport, we had a squadron of F-16s from Belgium I belive, and they were, for the most part, under our Firefighting jurisdiction. I cant ride at the Airport, but the Truck responds to the airport for major events so I tagged along. Man we learned some cool stuff that day. How to open the cockpit from outside, were to approach from and not die or have your n*ts fried by the radar. It was a pretty good learning experience for a couple of hours. If anyone wants more info, just say something on here and Ill come back, but im at the station and my shift is starting.

[SARfreak]

[i]
Next set of questions...

1. Explain the shutdown procedures for an aircraft, in order, and explain why they are in that order.

2. What are the areas of the aircraft that should be avoided at all times by fire/rescue personnel? (and everyone, for that matter)

Happy hunting, and stay safe!

Matt [/B]

I think I got #2... Engine Intake areas . Props, jets, whatever creates thrust can cause serious problems if ya get too close. When I was really into flying as a kid in CAP, we were always warned not to wear hats, etc on the flightline to prevent stuff from getting sucked into places it shouldn't be.

Hey, can someone grab me a bucket of propwash and 100' of flightline?

[Resq14]

Originally posted by Armyfirerescue
Yeah, you never want to put water on a class D fire, especially magnesium, all you do is cause a huge shower of sparks, big light show, and spread the fire. That said, you'd use a purple K extinguisher.
Matt

I thought PK was used primarily for dimensional Class B fires. The Purple K agent is superior to other dry chemicals in extinguishing oil, gas, and chemical fires. The one we carry is only rated BC atleast. I searched for a Class D PK extinguisher at google.com and could not locate one.

So I guess I'm stumped... do you use standard PK (potassium bicarbonate), one of the standard Class D extinguishers (copper, sodium chloride, etc), or is there a special PK extinguisher for Class D fires?

[FyredUp]

Okay first set of questions...

1) facing the front of the plane the right side is the rescue side. All main passenger entry doors as well as cargo doors are on that side.

2) Aqueous film forming foam. It is a class b foam. we used it at 3% on our crash rigs.

3) Hot brakes are the cause of the class d fire. Magnesium wheels. This problem is particularly evident in large frame aircraft without thrust reversers.

Second set of questions...

1) It has been a while since I shut down an aircraft. I am no longer a CFR FF. It seems to me, relaease the friction locks on the throttles, move the throttle controls to the off position, you had to pull up to get past the dedent to shut them off. The sequence I don't remember. It was either both outside engines, then both inside or vice versa. The reason for shutting down the same engine simultaneously on each wing was so the aircraft didn't try to spin becvause of thrust from one side.

2) The intake side and of course the exhaust side of any running jet engine. The intake side to avoid injestion and the exhaust side to avoid burn injuries. The propeller side of a running prop engine to avoid being chopped up, ala Raiders of the Lost Ark. And the exhaust side to avoid burn injuries.

Another place to avoid is the wheels during hot breaks. This is incase the wheels come apart due to the heat or the tires explode.

Just a comment on the purple K for a magnesium fire. The right choice is a class d extinguisher such as metal X or similar. Generally a purple K extinguisher has little or no effect on metal fires.

This is fun, it is making me remember some of my CFR training when I was a civilian firefighteer on an ANG base.

MORE QUESTIONS PLEASE!!

FyredUp