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explorers doing tranig burns

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  • Tonyg26
    replied
    Live Burns

    the legality is established by the jurisdiction your explorer/junior group operates under.

    while the BSA may approve - if there is a "no - go" at any level in between the BSA and the dept (state, county , town, district, etc.) - the "non go " wins out.

    Most importantly - you have to check and see what your insurance coverage allows - hate to have find out after the fact that there is a clause deep in your policy that says loid and clear " NO ONE UNDER X age"

    Asst Chief - see you at OYFETA!!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Explorer Asst Chief Fern
    replied
    It IS legal, it has happened many times before. Sometimes it's not always a great idea but like I said, it IS legal.

    Leave a comment:


  • Natatha
    replied
    Originally posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    FWIW - Kenyon is 15y/o and ADHD, give him a freaking break.

    He is just trying to learn something and fit in.



    Ebberbody dont' spels wright and type rite eibber.
    Priceless.

    For our post, we are allowed within a live burn only if it is within the local burn tower, and a member of the academy staff is present. Being one of our Captains is an instructor, it works perfect, and we have been, in the past, allowed in.

    I'm not 100% on whether or not we could enter a house, or anything like it (IE: Garage, office building, etc). For that information, you'd have to ask Dickey.

    Leave a comment:


  • CaptOldTimer
    replied
    FWIW - Kenyon is 15y/o and ADHD, give him a freaking break.

    He is just trying to learn something and fit in.



    Ebberbody dont' spels wright and type rite eibber.

    Leave a comment:


  • BULL321
    replied
    Originally posted by rpferry View Post
    No offense taken bro and congrats on overcoming your problem. Dyslexia can be a hard struggle and it's good to see that your dad helped you out when you needed it the most. I stand by statement though that unless he has a coach, much like you did, it can be difficult to understand the errors on the screen, even with the miss-spellings underlined. Furthermore, I'm sure he has a difficult time in the real world as well and doesn't need any more problems from folks he needs advice from. Not to high-jack a thread but what did you do to fix the dyslexia? I have to admit that I'm ignorant on it. Thanks for the info man.
    -Rob
    All my Dad did was to give me a "swift kick in the arse" and demand that I give my best at all times. If a C in school was my best then it was fine but if I was slacking then there was hell to pay. There were programs at school that taught coping techniques, which to be honest focused more on "staying on task" than anything else. When it comes down to brass tacks you have to realize that you have a problem and but never ever use "It" as a crutch or an excuse. You have to be willing to do what you need to do to fix or over come the problem. Do I still have a hard time keeping my mind from wandering? Yes I do when especially when I involved in doing something that I'm not interested in. Do I still write some of letters backwards? From time to time and My spelling sucks! Thank God for computers, spell check and my Wife. Hey Honey! How to do spell . . . . . ?

    Leave a comment:


  • rpferry
    replied
    Originally posted by BULL321 View Post
    Hello Rob,

    Good to see you Brother. I guess my Dad is/was a d*ck also. I've got dyslexia myself, and I have learn to cope adapt and overcome. I was speaking from the heart when I gave him the same advice that my father gave me. If you don't like it, I'm truly sorry, I've offended you. I guess I grew up in less P.C. times. As far as "All the programs in the world can't fix that without someone over his shoulder showing him what he cannot see." he must be color blind as well and can't see the red line under the words he has misspelled? If the poor fellow can't handle the truth then he truly is in for a hard time when he get's out in the real world.
    No offense taken bro and congrats on overcoming your problem. Dyslexia can be a hard struggle and it's good to see that your dad helped you out when you needed it the most. I stand by statement though that unless he has a coach, much like you did, it can be difficult to understand the errors on the screen, even with the miss-spellings underlined. Furthermore, I'm sure he has a difficult time in the real world as well and doesn't need any more problems from folks he needs advice from. Not to high-jack a thread but what did you do to fix the dyslexia? I have to admit that I'm ignorant on it. Thanks for the info man.
    -Rob

    Leave a comment:


  • mtg55
    replied
    What do your state laws say on this issue? That is always a good reference as to what explorers may do at this type of training.

    Leave a comment:


  • BULL321
    replied
    Originally posted by rpferry View Post
    You guys are f-ing unbelievable. A kid comes on here, admits he has a learning disability, apologizes for his errors, and ask a question and you d*cks jump on him and call him lazy. It must be just peachy living in your holier-than-thou land. How about this, instead of calling him lazy, advise him where he can get a spelling program. Who knows though, maybe his LD is reading comprehension or dyslexia. All the programs in the world can't fix that without someone over his shoulder showing him what he cannot see.

    In regards to your question, 16 or over shouldn’t be a problem with the right parameters in place. As long as the instructors are well trained, the environment is under control, and the kids are not afraid to say they are hot and leave the structure, I feel it would be a good training tool.

    -Rob
    Hello Rob,

    Good to see you Brother. I guess my Dad is/was a d*ck also. I've got dyslexia myself, and I have learn to cope adapt and overcome. I was speaking from the heart when I gave him the same advice that my father gave me. If you don't like it, I'm truly sorry, I've offended you. I guess I grew up in less P.C. times. As far as "All the programs in the world can't fix that without someone over his shoulder showing him what he cannot see." he must be color blind as well and can't see the red line under the words he has misspelled? If the poor fellow can't handle the truth then he truly is in for a hard time when he get's out in the real world.

    Leave a comment:


  • AndrewR
    replied
    Originally posted by rpferry View Post
    You guys are f-ing unbelievable. A kid comes on here, admits he has a learning disability, apologizes for his errors, and ask a question and you d*cks jump on him and call him lazy. It must be just peachy living in your holier-than-thou land. How about this, instead of calling him lazy, advise him where he can get a spelling program. Who knows though, maybe his LD is reading comprehension or dyslexia. All the programs in the world can't fix that without someone over his shoulder showing him what he cannot see.

    In regards to your question, 16 or over shouldn’t be a problem with the right parameters in place. As long as the instructors are well trained, the environment is under control, and the kids are not afraid to say they are hot and leave the structure, I feel it would be a good training tool.

    -Rob
    First of all these guys jump on anybody who spells like that and does not use proper spelling, its just the way they are. As for your comment about being 16 or over to do a training burn. NOPE, as shown in the previous posts the Boy Scouts who sponsor the Explorer Program do not allow that to happen, it would be a direct violation of the programs rules.

    As for him openly admitting to a learning disability, fine he has a problem that he cant control and I am sure he or she is seeking aid with that.
    But either way No Explorers Cannot go into IDLH environments which would be the same as a live burn training.

    Leave a comment:


  • rpferry
    replied
    You guys are unbelievable. A kid comes on here, admits he has a learning disability, apologizes for his errors, and ask a question and you jump on him and call him lazy. It must be just peachy living in your holier-than-thou land. How about this, instead of calling him lazy, advise him where he can get a spelling program. Who knows though, maybe his LD is reading comprehension or dyslexia. All the programs in the world can't fix that without someone over his shoulder showing him what he cannot see.

    In regards to your question, 16 or over shouldn’t be a problem with the right parameters in place. As long as the instructors are well trained, the environment is under control, and the kids are not afraid to say they are hot and leave the structure, I feel it would be a good training tool.

    -Rob
    Last edited by webteam; 03-18-2011, 05:00 PM. Reason: Swearing removed from post.

    Leave a comment:


  • 105
    replied
    Originally posted by BULL321 View Post
    N.C. allows Jrs that are 18 and have completed all of their 1403 classes to participate in live burns. If you are under 18, then NO GO!

    As far as you using your Learning Disability as an excuse for being lazy I call B.S. I tell you like my Dad, told me. "Son just because you have a problem, is no excuse to act like an arse. When you grow up and get a job, your boss is going to give you a job to do and if you can't do it he will fine someone who can!"
    Agreed - there is no excuse for being lazy. And no excuse for poor spelling - this forum underlines misspelled words prior to submitting. The only thing we have to judge you on is the content and form of your post - if you can't even take the additional 30 seconds to spell correctly, why should we take anything else said seriously?

    Now, that said - to address your post. At our department juniors would be allowed to attend the controlled burn, but only passively. That is, sit back in the green zone, watch, and learn. No entry, no SCBA, nothing anywhere near an IDLH environment. Explorers/Juniors should be learning as much as they can, but in as safe a manner as possible. When you become a full member of the department you can then put what you've learned over the years into action.

    Leave a comment:


  • BULL321
    replied
    Originally posted by kenyon View Post
    we are going to go into a room with full PPE and its going to be modal type room and whatch it burn to study fire behaver and my speling is cuz i have a laurning disabity im srroy
    N.C. allows Jrs that are 18 and have completed all of their 1403 classes to participate in live burns. If you are under 18, then NO GO!

    As far as you using your Learning Disability as an excuse for being lazy I call B.S. I tell you like my Dad, told me. "Son just because you have a problem, is no excuse to act like an arse. When you grow up and get a job, your boss is going to give you a job to do and if you can't do it he will fine someone who can!"

    Leave a comment:


  • ATFDFF
    replied
    Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    (And, no, Explorers doesn't allow it.)
    And, no, you're completely wrong:

    Explorers may not be substituted for trained personnel.
    Explorers must be equipped with personal protective equipment that is appropriate for the activity being done.
    Explorers may be mobilized only as a post, with required leadership. Explorers are not on call as individuals.
    Explorers who ride on apparatus or other department vehicles must be seated and must wear a seat belt.
    Explorers may not drive department vehicles.
    Explorers may not climb aerial ladders.
    Explorers may not climb ground ladders that exceed 35 feet in length, or not supported against a structure.
    Explorers may not enter or perform ventilation procedures on a burning structure.
    Explorers may not use any tools or gloves on energized electrical equipment.
    Explorers may not operate cutting torches
    Explorers may not operate hydraulic rescue tools or equipment.
    Explorers may not handle life nets.
    Exceptions: Using an official training facility, the use of aerial ladders with the appropriate safety equipment, and entering a controlled burn building is approved.
    So you must have an aneurysm looking at this:

    http://www.fsi.illinois.edu/content/...xplorer-cadet/

    Explorer/Cadet live burns for 4 days which has been going on for YEARS without a serious injury of any sort. Hundreds of kids per year.

    Leave a comment:


  • BoxAlarm187
    replied
    Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    They're out of their ever-loving minds if they do... Putting a minor in SCBA in an IDLH environment -- no matter how "structured" it might be intended to be -- is a monumentally Bad Idea(TM).
    We've done it successfully for years throughout our fine state, as part of Firefighter I and Firefighter II live burns.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeputyMarshal
    replied
    Originally posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Some junior firefighter programs will allow a member between 16 and 18 years of age to enter an IDLH training environment as part of a structured and recognized training plan.
    They're out of their ever-loving minds if they do... Putting a minor in SCBA in an IDLH environment -- no matter how "structured" it might be intended to be -- is a monumentally Bad Idea(TM).

    (And, no, Explorers doesn't allow it.)

    Leave a comment:

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