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  • #16
    between the hours of 3 om on fridays and 10 pm sundays duriing school year i respond anytime of day night

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    • #17
      Our post can ride anytime between shift start 0700 and 2200. During that time we respond on everything. We can't do everything but we always go. Pretty much we can do anything not IDLH. So all medical call, overhaul, grass fires. On some calls like rescues we can go to "the edge" and depending on the urgency and specific sitution--available manpower, time, place, officer, training--go further.

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      • #18
        When it comes to doing questionalbe activities, like going in a hot zone or even entering a structure, it all depends on your departments sign off sheets. If a parent signs off allowing their child to enter an IDLH environment and it's worded correctly, most lawsuits can be prevented. As for most other things, it depends on the departments insurance. Once I was on a department who's insurance wouldn't cover any cadet riding on "emergency apparatus" (any vehicle responding with lights and sirens), therefore all cadets had to ride in chase vehicles. Every states laws, and every departments bylaws are different. Just make sure you know yours.
        Explorer Assistant Chief Alisha Fern

        Leadership: The ability to guide, direct, and influence others.

        Leadership can be thought of as a capacity to define oneself to others in a way that clarifies and expands a vision of the future.


        [email protected]

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        • #19
          it all depends on your departments sign off sheets
          Not true, by operating outside of the Learning for Life Insurance limitations (for lack of a better way to put it) the FD assumes all responsibility financially

          If a parent signs off allowing their child to enter an IDLH environment and it's worded correctly, most lawsuits can be prevented.
          Again, not true..... If people can sue and win over spilled hot coffee they ordered in the drive-thru of McDonalds what makes you think that the parent signing a piece of paper is going to prevent a lawsuit? Anybody can sue over anything, if it's legit or not legit that is different and will be decided in midigation or court. If it is legit, then the FD will be found financially responsible for the damages (physical and mental).

          Another issue is to defend the actions of the Explorer Post the Fire Chief, Head Advisor and the C.O. that allowed the Explorer to enter the IDLH and get injured will have to personally appear before the mediator or judge/jury to explain their actions. This means at a minimum, (1) (in reality way more) days that the FD does not have it's leadership readily available. This means that instead of managing his/her FD the Fire Chief is stuck defending the actions of his FD. The Head Advisor (in my FD, a Captain) will be paid to defend their actions and back-filled with OT. The C.O. that gave the order will be paid to represent their actions as well. So, the FD will have the Fire Chief unavailable and pay for 3 1/2 C.Os that are not working; to me this seems fiscally irresponsible.

          To me it's simple..... If volunteer/paid-on-call/career FFs have to have specific training and have to follow NFPA and State Guidelines/Regulations then Explorers must abide by strict Bylaws/SOGs/SOPs. Keep them out of the "Hot Zone" and "IDLH". Explorers are not and should not be used to augment manpower on emergency calls. If additional manpower is needed, strengthen your Auto/Mutual Aid Agreements and increase the amount of Units that are dispatched to your calls. Explorers are there to learn and I have seen some "dialed-in" Explorers but the fact is still that they have limitations to what they can do.

          Don't put your FD, Fire Chief, C.Os and your Community in a position to be fiscally responsible for something that is so simple to avoid.
          "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

          Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

          Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

          Comment


          • #20
            Explorer Guidelines

            * Explorers may not be substituted for trained personnel.
            * Explorers must be equipped with personal protective equipment that is appropriate for the activity being done.
            * Explorers may be mobilized only as a post, with required leadership. Explorers are not on call as individuals.
            * Explorers who ride on apparatus or other department vehicles must be seated and must wear a seat belt.
            * Explorers may not drive department vehicles.
            * Explorers may not climb aerial ladders.
            * Explorers may not climb ground ladders that exceed 35 feet in length, or not supported against a structure.
            * Explorers may not enter or perform ventilation procedures on a burning structure.
            * Explorers may not use any tools or gloves on energized electrical equipment.
            * Explorers may not operate cutting torches
            * Explorers may not operate hydraulic rescue tools or equipment.
            * Explorers may not handle life nets.

            Exceptions: Using an official training facility, the use of aerial ladders with the appropriate safety equipment, and entering a controlled burn building is approved.
            This is right from the Learning for Life's website under Fire & Emergency Service Exploring Programs Guidelines.
            "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

            Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

            Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by mikeyboy View Post
              This is right from the Learning for Life's website under Fire & Emergency Service Exploring Programs Guidelines.
              But at the same time, you have to realize that not all explorer posts operate under BSA Learning for Life. Some of the local departments around me have their own legal documents for the parents and explorers to sign regarding entering IDLH environments. Also, those departments have specific insurance for their explorers that would allow them to do those activities. I completely understand the BSA Learning for Life limitations, but not all posts are under their control.
              Explorer Assistant Chief Alisha Fern

              Leadership: The ability to guide, direct, and influence others.

              Leadership can be thought of as a capacity to define oneself to others in a way that clarifies and expands a vision of the future.


              [email protected]

              Comment


              • #22
                That's very interesting..... I have actually learned something from you here. Well, as long as it's correct (not doubting you, just never seen a Post ran that way).

                Curious, why did your Post decide to run that way? Maybe you know, maybe not...

                What did you have to have in place to operate this way? I'm not thinking about running ours this way, just curious what training, financial backing, organization, liability insurance, etc. is needed in place of being a Learning for Life Post. Of course, here in California LFL is the only organization I've ever heard of that has this type of program.
                "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

                Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

                Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

                Comment


                • #23
                  To answer the question, Yes I am allowed to go to any call. My Dept. Runs 2 Engines and a Rescue, I'll ride what ever truck is leaving as I'm trained on all the trucks.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by mikeyboy View Post
                    That's very interesting..... I have actually learned something from you here. Well, as long as it's correct (not doubting you, just never seen a Post ran that way).

                    Curious, why did your Post decide to run that way? Maybe you know, maybe not...

                    What did you have to have in place to operate this way? I'm not thinking about running ours this way, just curious what training, financial backing, organization, liability insurance, etc. is needed in place of being a Learning for Life Post. Of course, here in California LFL is the only organization I've ever heard of that has this type of program.
                    "My" post isn't run this way but some other local posts are. They chose it to give their cadets more experience. Those posts have a lot more serious cadets (they don't call them explorers as to not be confused as LFL participants). The department has to do A LOT of legal consultation when writing SOPs and cadet rules and regulations. Also, the deparment must consult with their insurance company to discuss coverage (some insurance companies will deny coverage, but if it's approved, it can be extremely expensive). Most departmens that have this charge the cadets anually/biannually for insurance coverage. Few departmets run this way, but it's usually for departments with low staffing that really need extra hands on the fire grounds. The cadets go through rigorous training and lots of paperwork before entering any IDLH environment. So far in my area there has not been any cases of any cadets being injured on a fire scene.
                    Explorer Assistant Chief Alisha Fern

                    Leadership: The ability to guide, direct, and influence others.

                    Leadership can be thought of as a capacity to define oneself to others in a way that clarifies and expands a vision of the future.


                    [email protected]

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      As of now, our department allow's JR's to ride the truck to any nature of call. Granted they are only allowed to do certain things on a MVA or Fire type scene, but they are usefull none the less. I just got bumped up to a Firefighter from Jr position, and a new member just joined taking my spot. I realise now how important I was as a Jr to all the firefighters I was helping at the time. Our Jr (we only have one right now) Is old enough to have his EVOC and his FF1 etc, but does not have any classes other then in house training, what he can do on the fireground is judged by our SOP's and our commanding officer/captain of Ladder Co.
                      Firefighter 1/ PA EMT-B

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                      • #26
                        Explorers vs. Cadets

                        "My" post isn't run this way but some other local posts are. They chose it to give their cadets more experience. Those posts have a lot more serious cadets (they don't call them explorers as to not be confused as LFL participants).
                        Explorers are different from Cadets as I understand it. Explorers as you know have an age limit and Cadets may or may not. Explorers are High School aged young adults and Cadets are college aged adults.

                        My department just joined with one of the local Colleges and has (3) FF 1 Cadets. Our Cadets are able to function and go on the same calls that the rest of us go on. The differences are their ages, level of training, liability (the College has assumed all liability, I asked) and the insurance associated with them.

                        Most departmens that have this charge the cadets anually/biannually for insurance coverage.
                        Our Cadets have $1 million insurance coverage provided by the College. You may want to think about seeing how feasible this is since the College already has to have insurance, especially for those Colleges that have Fire Academies.

                        Few departmets run this way, but it's usually for departments with low staffing that really need extra hands on the fire grounds.
                        We brought the Cadets in to help them since in Cali there must are a certain amount of hours that must be met before you can get your CSFM FF 1 Cert.

                        The cadets go through rigorous training and lots of paperwork before entering any IDLH environment. So far in my area there has not been any cases of any cadets being injured on a fire scene.
                        This is what I was saying earlier about the differences in training levels. Many Explorers are young adults that come into the Program/Post with no experience and are trained by the Department. In many Departments, once an Explorer hits 18, they are rolled into a Paid/On Call Status (if they have such a Program/Status) or they are rolled into a Reserve Status. A Cadet is an adult that has enrolled into a College Fire Academy, graduated and needs training hours to complete their FF 1 Certs. Our Explorer training is based on the CSFM Volunteer FF Level training. Check the CSFM's website for the differences in training if you want to know the differences. Our Explorers have (3) Levels (Entry, Level 1 and Level 2), when they make Level 2 they will receive their CSFM Volunteer FF Cert which with additional training and experience they can earn their FF 1 Cert.

                        Since you 1st posted, I've been researching both Programs and see very different Programs. Cadets are usually associated with the Military (the FS is paramilitary so it makes sense to have Cadets in the FS) and are studying to be an Officer and are held to a standard than regular Recruits. In the FS they are College FF 1 Candidates who need time/exposure to the Job.

                        Thanks for challenging me and posting something I had to research.
                        Last edited by mikeyboy411; 02-24-2011, 08:27 PM.
                        "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

                        Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

                        Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          LAFD Crew 3 is a Volunteer Type II Handcrew managed by the Los Angeles Fire Department. Crew 3 is currently organized as a Wildland Cadet Post.
                          I personally know a few guys that have done this and it is not an Explorer position, it is a Cadet position. Explorers and Cadets, especially in LAFD and LA Co FD are totally separate. A HUGE difference is that the Cadets are paid and Explorers are not. There are obviously additional differences that have been discussed earlier.
                          "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

                          Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

                          Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by mikeyboy View Post
                            Explorers are different from Cadets as I understand it. Explorers as you know have an age limit and Cadets may or may not. Explorers are High School aged young adults and Cadets are college aged adults.

                            My department just joined with one of the local Colleges and has (3) FF 1 Cadets. Our Cadets are able to function and go on the same calls that the rest of us go on. The differences are their ages, level of training, liability (the College has assumed all liability, I asked) and the insurance associated with them.



                            Our Cadets have $1 million insurance coverage provided by the College. You may want to think about seeing how feasible this is since the College already has to have insurance, especially for those Colleges that have Fire Academies.



                            We brought the Cadets in to help them since in Cali there must are a certain amount of hours that must be met before you can get your CSFM FF 1 Cert.



                            This is what I was saying earlier about the differences in training levels. Many Explorers are young adults that come into the Program/Post with no experience and are trained by the Department. In many Departments, once an Explorer hits 18, they are rolled into a Paid/On Call Status (if they have such a Program/Status) or they are rolled into a Reserve Status. A Cadet is an adult that has enrolled into a College Fire Academy, graduated and needs training hours to complete their FF 1 Certs. Our Explorer training is based on the CSFM Volunteer FF Level training. Check the CSFM's website for the differences in training if you want to know the differences. Our Explorers have (3) Levels (Entry, Level 1 and Level 2), when they make Level 2 they will receive their CSFM Volunteer FF Cert which with additional training and experience they can earn their FF 1 Cert.

                            Since you 1st posted, I've been researching both Programs and see very different Programs. Cadets are usually associated with the Military (the FS is paramilitary so it makes sense to have Cadets in the FS) and are studying to be an Officer and are held to a standard than regular Recruits. In the FS they are College FF 1 Candidates who need time/exposure to the Job.

                            Thanks for challenging me and posting something I had to research.
                            Not disagreeing with you Mikey, but just FYI: Cadets can be ANYTHING. Unlike Explorers (which obviously is a specific program as part of Learning for Life) Cadet is just a term and not an organization, and it's upto teach department how they structure their Cadet groups. I know of several departments which work like you have been talking about, Cadets being older, usually college students, etc. However, I also know of many that run their Cadets like explorers, 13/14+ etc.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Ahhhhhh, ok... Very cool... I see clearly now, thanks for the education. Reckon it's kinda like that "Tender" stufff in ICS. Here we like our water tendered, as opposed to the rest of the Country that like their steaks tender and water tanked. LOL.

                              Maybe we can include these ranks in ICS so that everybody can get on the same page as us..... LMAO. Just kidding.....
                              "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

                              Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

                              Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by mikeyboy View Post
                                Ahhhhhh, ok... Very cool... I see clearly now, thanks for the education. Reckon it's kinda like that "Tender" stufff in ICS. Here we like our water tendered, as opposed to the rest of the Country that like their steaks tender and water tanked. LOL.

                                Maybe we can include these ranks in ICS so that everybody can get on the same page as us..... LMAO. Just kidding.....
                                Our department likes our water tanked then tendered
                                Explorer Assistant Chief Alisha Fern

                                Leadership: The ability to guide, direct, and influence others.

                                Leadership can be thought of as a capacity to define oneself to others in a way that clarifies and expands a vision of the future.


                                [email protected]

                                Comment

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