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  • #31
    Originally posted by KeithA8
    Fyredup:
    As a matter of fact I do. I live in a small rural town in CT that actualy has 2 paid personel. Their title is "maintainers". Their job is to maintain stations and equipment including mechanic work on the trucks. They also respond to calls during their working hours. But they do it for free on their off time which is against many labor laws. (you can't volunteer for your employer) They are not IAFF members. What I do is help them out, at their request, with technical training. I do this on average one night a month. A few things I won't do such as do anything that requires me to put on turn out gear. Obviously the people I'm training have all the appropriate gear on, but I don't cross the line that could label me as doing something "hazardous in the firefighting field". The members I help train understand my position and the unions position and they respect that. My city actualy has contract language forbiding any emergency type work outside of our job. ie: EMS, firefighting, police, and even dispatching.
    Hmmmmm....my part time job is a member of the Union Fire Instructor for the local tech college. So in my mind YOUR volunteering to instruct is scabbing some Union Instructors job. I guess it is all perspective isn't it?

    FyredUp
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by FyredUp
      If you say so. But do tell me what you call the paid firefighters you know that do construction, drive truck, lay carpet, install flooring, are electricians, plumbers, mechanics, painters, and so much more on their off days? Oh wait, the fact that they are taking jobs from another Union member doesn't matter does it? It only counts if YOU feel they are screwing a Union firefighter not any other Union Brother or Sister. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

      Fyredup
      What if they are union carpenters, teamsters, electricians, etc?
      I am a complacent liability to the fire service

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Catch22
        Not bitter at all. To tell the truth, I didn't know I was a member until I saw my dues coming out of my check. Apparently, I signed (without knowing it) the agreement to have my dues pulled out. No problem, I planned on joining anyway. However, I have a hard time with an organization that I'm paying to be in telling me how to spend my off time.

        As for a simple matter, I don't see it that way. There's a lot of things I have yet to see the IAFF ask for my opinion on, yet they're touting that it's my opinion because I'm a member. I think the big boys might be a little surprised if they'd take the effort to find out what the membership as a whole thought. Now, if they did that, I wouldn't have a problem one with it, because that's how the majority feels. It'd be like letting the Senate decide who's president without a vote of the public.
        Again, if you have such a problem and an ideological difference with the Union then get out. It is a very simple rule - if you want to be a part of the union, you can't volunteer. Period. Nothing vague about it. If you feel it is wrong or can't comply - then leave.
        I am a complacent liability to the fire service

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by ChicagoFF
          Again, if you have such a problem and an ideological difference with the Union then get out. It is a very simple rule - if you want to be a part of the union, you can't volunteer. Period. Nothing vague about it. If you feel it is wrong or can't comply - then leave.
          So, I guess I can assume you agree with everything the union says, dictates, proposes, sanctons, supports, pushes, or backs? Even if they decided to oppose 3/4 boots (forgive me if I stereotype, just figuring being Chicago you're a 3/4 man). I also guess if you had your way, those locals that supported Bush in '04 should be removed as well, seeing as they didn't support the same ideals as the big boys?

          I also oppose a number of things our legislature does, but that doesn't mean I'm moving to another country. But, the great thing about this country is, that I can have my own opinion and speak it.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by ChicagoFF
            What if they are union carpenters, teamsters, electricians, etc?
            Right. I work with a ton of guys that work side jobs like I described and NONE of them are Union. I work as a part-time instructor for the tech college and I AM Union.

            Please don't try to make me believe the majority of guys doing side jobs are Union when you know they aren't. Let me ask you this question though: I know guys that are POC that are temasters because the FD they work for part-time is Unionized. Are they Scabs too? After all they are Unionized aren't they? I already know your answer but i would like to hear it anyways.

            You know to me this is kind of like your 3/4's arguments...I don't care if you wear 3/4's...unless I am affecting YOUR FD, or any other career FD, don't spend too much time caring about what I am doing.

            Stay safe,

            FyredUp
            Crazy, but that's how it goes
            Millions of people living as foes
            Maybe it's not too late
            To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Catch22
              So, I guess I can assume you agree with everything the union says, dictates, proposes, sanctons, supports, pushes, or backs? Even if they decided to oppose 3/4 boots (forgive me if I stereotype, just figuring being Chicago you're a 3/4 man). I also guess if you had your way, those locals that supported Bush in '04 should be removed as well, seeing as they didn't support the same ideals as the big boys?
              Why do you think we are getting bunker gear? Because our union stirred the pot. I talked to the leadership, expressed my difference of opinion, they explained their position, and I (and many others) will vote accordingly at the next election. Wearing our boots was not covered under the rules and regs of the union, it's a policy issue. Totally different. As far as politics goes, I'm a republican, so I almost always disagree with my unions choice of who to back. I knew that going in and it is not a big problem for me. I can comunicate my problem to the international and try to get them to move to a more politically balanced stance. If they won't? Oh well. I will remain a member, pay my dues, a hope for the best at our next contract negotiation. Again, very different.

              You on the other hand do not want to follow a rule that is clearly spelled out, and a rule that in the example we are discussing, is knocking union men out. If you can't see the difference between a dissagreement over various policicies decided upon by my local, and your anger over one of the most basic rules of this union (and unions in general) then you are not being rational about this issue.
              I am a complacent liability to the fire service

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by FyredUp
                Right. I work with a ton of guys that work side jobs like I described and NONE of them are Union. I work as a part-time instructor for the tech college and I AM Union.

                Please don't try to make me believe the majority of guys doing side jobs are Union when you know they aren't.
                Actually, most of the guys in the trades that I personally know are union. They were in the trades long before they got on the job and some had over 20 years in with the carpenters, electricians, or plumbers before they got on the CFD. The only thing you can say about them is they hold two cards, a far lesser crime then if they were volunteering for shifts at the local carpentry shop and knocking union men out of work.
                I am a complacent liability to the fire service

                Comment


                • #38
                  This whole debate is always fun to watch. This is also one of those topics that needs to be looked at for what it is, and that is an issue with shades of grey in it, not just black and white.
                  I will say this though, if a union firefighter is a volunteer in a department with IAFF members in it, meaning that they are an IAFF member at one department, and then they volunteer at a different department that is also IAFF, which does happen, they are wrong. That is the whole purpose behind any of the language in proposition 39, or any other language in the IAFF charter. That language is also not much different than that of other unions, meaning the teamsters, or the iron workers, and so on. Unions are supposed to be for union labor, and union products, and encourage their members as such.

                  There are departments out there that will never have professional firefighters in them. If an IAFF member is volunteering in a department that falls in that category, there is nothing wrong with that. There really is no difference between that, and the union electrician who does side work on the weekend for cash. That happens all the time, and we’re all happy to pay those prices instead.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Jasper45:
                    I was with you until the end. Look at the Hartford case between the city and its surrounding suburbs. You might walk away with a different opinion on volunteering in a non-union town.
                    IAFF member, Love this job! Remember the oath!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by KeithA8
                      Jasper45:
                      I was with you until the end. Look at the Hartford case between the city and its surrounding suburbs. You might walk away with a different opinion on volunteering in a non-union town.

                      Do you have any specefic articles you can either link me to, or e-mail to me,I would be interested in reading about it.
                      The volunteering issue is not a big problem around here (my department) because we have city residency, and are surrounded by all career departments, plus we don't go outside of the city as of right now.
                      I had heard of some problems around Hartford, CT, but I've really only paid attention to the suburban DC issues.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by ChicagoFF
                        You on the other hand do not want to follow a rule that is clearly spelled out, and a rule that in the example we are discussing, is knocking union men out. If you can't see the difference between a dissagreement over various policicies decided upon by my local, and your anger over one of the most basic rules of this union (and unions in general) then you are not being rational about this issue.
                        OK, I think we may be missing some pieces of each others puzzle. I'm not talking about taking union member's jobs. I feel whole heartedly that if a department has the funding to fund even one full time firefighter, they need to be doing so. It irks me to see depatments that spend tens and hundreds of thousands each year replacing apparatus that doesn't need replaced instead of paying personnel.

                        On the other hand, there are departments out there that do not have funding to hire personnel, and likely won't for decades. The department I vollie for has a budget of $20,000/year in a town of 1,100 people. Even if we get our tax district passed, the budget will only be $60-70K. Not enough to pay for personnel. Perhaps in the future.

                        Basically, I agree with the intent of the policy, I just don't agree that it's a black-and-white issue. And forgive me for the stereotype, I was picturing a 3/4 boot to the bone democrat Obviously I was wrong.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Catch22
                          I was picturing a 3/4 boot to the bone democrat Obviously I was wrong.
                          3/4's yes. You can keep the f^@king bunker gear. Democrat - no.
                          I am a complacent liability to the fire service

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ChicagoFF
                            3/4's yes. You can keep the f^@king bunker gear. Democrat - no.
                            I will admit, I do like the 3/4's. I think it's a shame they were gone around this area before I got into the service. Just don't like the long coats you have to wear with them.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Catch22
                              OK, I think we may be missing some pieces of each others puzzle. I'm not talking about taking union member's jobs. I feel whole heartedly that if a department has the funding to fund even one full time firefighter, they need to be doing so.
                              But wasn't that the example we were given? Paid guys volunteering at a nearby combo dept. and bumping their paid guys?
                              I am a complacent liability to the fire service

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by ChicagoFF
                                But wasn't that the example we were given? Paid guys volunteering at a nearby combo dept. and bumping their paid guys?
                                Yes that's the example we were given, and I agreed that they shouldn't be doing that. I also questioned if it was appropriate for his local to be addressing the situation that the other department's local probably should be.

                                I just don't feel it's a black-and-white issue that warrants a blanket policy. What is an issue in some areas of the country isn't necessarily the case in others. I got a little off base of the original topic, I just question the sense of that kind of policy. I'd be curious to see stats on how many IAFF members either vollie somewhere, or feel the same about the rule as apparently some of us posting in this topic do.

                                Comment

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