Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Brother looking for some help

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by FyredUp
    this is MY choice and it really is no one else's business.

    FyredUp
    Not to be a jagoff, but that was true until you joined the union - then it became their business. At the end of the day it really doesn't affect me what you do up behind the cheddar curtain (I'm sure there are more disturbing things than you volunteering going on up there ) but if everyone does exactly what they want and no one works together as a group, and no one works towards common goals following standard rules - whats the point of a union?

    Just out of curiosity - What if there was a crack down on volunteering and you were givin an ultimatum. Would you withdraw from the union and forgo any benefits and protections in order to keep volunteering or would you let the other volunteers do their work and keep your membership?
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

    Comment


    • We just closed 6 Engine Companies...if the city needs more firemen and more Engines...we shouldn't be calling the volly LIDs we should reopen Engines 36,204,209,212,261 & 278.
      FFFred, I'll agree with that! And I also agree that the memo had something do with what you said, from what I recall reading.

      Thanks for keeping MOST of the discussion going.
      "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

      Comment


      • ChicagoFF...

        I know the IAFF believes that my volunteering in my little rural village with no career Firefighters is wrong but I am going to continue to do it.

        There now that is out of the way.

        I feel strongly that as long as it does not break the law it is none of the Union's or City's business what I am doing off duty. It is that simple to me.


        ekhaber...

        Believe what you wish about me and being a firefighter or not, a Union IAFF member Firefighter or not, I frankly couldn't care less what you think about me.

        Yes you did threaten to report me and anyone else who had the same opinion as me. Go back and reread your posts, well unless you deleted them to hide your tracks. Why is it your business what I am doing and what my local knows and allows? How is it affecting you?

        Jasper...

        They can't hear you anymore than they hear me.

        The facts are simple. In the metro area where we work vollies have NO impact at all on either of our FD's. Private ambulances do and I know members of my career FD that work for them. So who is hurting us more? Some guy like me vollying out in the sticks or the guy who sits next to you on the engine or truck today and who tomorrow is stealing rescue calls from your FD and mine? Seems obvious to me. Yet, does your local stop those guys? Mine doesn't.


        Look I am not even trying to change anybody's mind. If your FD and local is adamant about this super. Some are some aren't. At this point this is like beating the bloated stinking remains of that dead horse that sat in the sun for days. I am done with this. Well, unless someone directly posts to me in here.

        Have fun boys I am out of here.

        FyredUp
        Crazy, but that's how it goes
        Millions of people living as foes
        Maybe it's not too late
        To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

        Comment


        • Ambulance Services

          I worked for one. Continued to do so for a time after being hired as a paid firefighter/paramedic. I freely admit to it. I was not making much money and really enjoyed the friends and especially since I was still young, the action. It was kind of a unique situation. The company paid rent for us to be quartered in their volunteer firehouse (that had three woefully underpaid but wonderful day firefighters). We ran almost every call for this department. Besides the usual EMS/MVA, we responded to structure fires too. Busy place. Fun place.I never became an "official" member of the fire dept. but I sure did to get to fight some fires. But I got older (26 maybe) and decided that it was time to hang it up. The biggest threat to paid firefighter jobs was changing in that private ambulance companies were in the business of providing fulltime fire/ems employees in lieu of municipal/district firefighter-paramedics. It is still a huge threat. One area of Chicagoland that is weak on this is where my Brother from Local 717 is located. I am not afraid to say contracted fire medics are not only a threat to my job but the community as a whole. He has a neighboring Local in the same situation. Revolving door. Several added layers of management and from what I can tell, not that big of a savings for the city/fire district. These companies can pay less in wages and benefits. They are for profit. Same goes for my fellow IAFF members who work part-time for all of these suburbs. Give me a break. A Chicago Firefighter needs to work as a part-timer in the burbs? It happens. Some of the biggest locals are the biggest offenders around here. They are SELFISH. I ask them if I can come work at their job for less pay. They don't like that too much. Hyprocites are right up there on my lack of respect list. There are many areas where being a volunteer will never effect a fellow IAFF members job. But around here, it is a basic fact.
          Last edited by MIKEYLIKESIT; 11-15-2006, 02:02 PM.
          IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

          Comment


          • So let me get this straight: The IAFF has it written somewhere that a paid firefighter will not volunteer or be paid by another agency in their off time from their paid department?

            Not wanting to whip a dead horse but I didn't see anything specific in the past posts. I understand that volunteering in a combo department is a conflict of interest but don't see how it applies to a volunteer department. Now if I missed it let me know.

            If it is written in your contract or by-laws then you should follow them but if your department is OK with it then enjoy your time off and be safe.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ChicagoFF
              Not to be a jagoff, but that was true until you joined the union - then it became their business. At the end of the day it really doesn't affect me what you do up behind the cheddar curtain (I'm sure there are more disturbing things than you volunteering going on up there ) but if everyone does exactly what they want and no one works together as a group, and no one works towards common goals following standard rules - whats the point of a union?

              Just out of curiosity - What if there was a crack down on volunteering and you were givin an ultimatum. Would you withdraw from the union and forgo any benefits and protections in order to keep volunteering or would you let the other volunteers do their work and keep your membership?
              I am close enough to retirement that of course I would have to quit the volly FD and stay on the job and keep my benefits.

              The one thing I find totally contradictory is the assumption that because I refuse to follow this one rule of the Union I am a totally uninvolved uninformed member of my local. I find the two topics unrelated really. I am a member of my Local's safety and health committee and apparatus committee. I am informed about issues, I speak to executive board members regularly about issuues regarding our local and the FD in general. So in my opinion the 2 can easily go hand in hand.

              FyredUp
              Crazy, but that's how it goes
              Millions of people living as foes
              Maybe it's not too late
              To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Stewart46
                I have seen quite a few members here suggest that a new guy join their local volunteer department to gain experience and certifications. Not to mention to make sure it is what they want to do when they grow up. Now the next step is to get hired by a department full time. Some of the smaller departments at least around here don’t pay that well especially starting off that first year. So a job on your off days is almost mandatory.
                I have seen the thread about what FF’s do in their off time. So what is the difference if a person is hurt volunteering with his local fire department or is hurt falling off a roof doing his part time job?
                Not much...which is why many guys try to work non-physical jobs on their days off. Some guys do their old trade gig on the side...including a few Ironworkers I know. But they are covered on their job and are getting pension credits from their union. They aren't on probation on my job and are at top pay as well. They aren't SCABs and Either way with any side job you are putting your real job in hack should you get injured and last time I checked, Firefighting is regarded in legal terms as "Ultra-hazzardous and unavoidably dangerous" These are just two terms used in the disclaimer of firefighting equipment. I've done lots of construction work in my day and I've never been injured once...I've taken a number of trips to the hospital for firefighting.

                Volunteering is at least helping out the department that gave him a start and maybe even bring some of the knowledge he has learned to the volunteer department making them better.
                Very altruistic...but it does cheapen your actuall labor that is supporting your family and other men's families and it does undercut our unions efforts at securing things like presumptive bills and such.

                Of all these guys everyone is mentioning doing side work in the trades....I don't know one of them who is doing it for free (or almost free) in the cases of POC vollies(not true volly in my book) or guys with small volly pensions.

                FyredUp,

                If you aren't vollying for a rival orgainization I don't know why you'd be taking up their cause as you have been?

                FTM-PTB

                Comment


                • Originally posted by KeithA8
                  YOU PEOPLE ARE
                  HOPELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                  Some of us just like to see you guys riled up as much as we are. (Just playing with you, don't take it serious)

                  Stewart: Go back to the first page of this thread, the info in regards to the article addressing this is there.

                  Now, vollying aside, this article also states that we cannot work for law enforcement or EMS. This is another gleaning issue I'm thinking the guys in DC are out of touch with what happens elsewhere. How many FF's work PRN for EMS agencies? I know of several. I'm willing to bet about half of my local vollies and 2/3 work EMS, both of which are a violation of the by-laws (if I read it right, private, district, whatever is off limits). I'm sorry, but even if I did quit my vollie dept., there's no way in hell I can make ends meet without my EMS job. I've beent here too long.

                  Now, if the IAFF had a big crackdown on this policy, and I mean nationwide, how many tens of thousands of dollars per year would they lose from guys that said "screw it" and dropped their membership? Maybe that's why they don't enforce it like that? I don't pretend to know how the guys in my local would react, but I'd be willing to bet that a large portion would be out of the union.

                  Like most of the things discussed here, we're in a different situation than most of you guys though. No contracts and no collective bargaining, we're essentially at the pleasure of what our CM and council decides to do.

                  Comment


                  • Fyred Up,

                    Wow how your tone has changed,

                    You serve on the Unions Heath and Safety Committee and the Aparatus Committee (or so you claim, I dont believe you are a IAFF member).

                    However you work as a vollie.

                    If you get injured as a vollie what do you do.

                    Claim it on you vollie department or defraud your union department.

                    If you are as old as you claim, why would you risk the security of you and your family.

                    As a member of the health and safety commitee you should be aware that your risk of injury at fires increases as you get older. Also as you get older your body requires more time to heal. Why would you advocate working at another fire department? Unless neither of you departments has any runs.

                    These facts are know to all IAFF heath and safety members.

                    And do you tell the young guys on your job to vollie and risk their pension before they are vested.

                    There is more to it than just community how about common scence.

                    Comment


                    • Something just came to me in regards to the whole "if you get hurt on your vollie department" thing. My vollie dept. has a very good work comp insurance (the last guy I had get hurt ended up collecting based on the salary of a FT captain of a nearby dept.). If I get hurt, of course the city I work for won't pay for my time, but they'll let me use my sick time (and no, the union didn't get me my sick time, the city does it for all city employees). My work comp with the volly department covers medical bills and missed wages.

                      Anyway, what's the difference if me or anyone else, as a union firefighter, gets hurt or if it's a union (or nonunion, for that matter) construction worker, truck driver, electrician, etc? If that's the case, should we not avoid any activity that would impact our ability to perform our jobs? Dirtbikes, ATVs, hunting, rapelling, and on down the line? Forgive me if I think it's a good excuse for the IAFF to warrant such a policy, I just don't see a whole lot of justification behind that argument.

                      Comment


                      • I never said it was the IAFF stance it is my stance and what I tell the young firefighter.

                        I try to look out them and give them good advice.

                        I care about my brothers and try to steer them in the right direction.

                        I dont think 200 dollars a week is worth the loss of their jobs and pension benifits.

                        Call me selfish i GUESS.

                        Comment


                        • Fred, in New York, are there any dues paying firefighters ratting in Long island or elsewhere?
                          Mike Ward, are there any D.C. firefighters paying union dues working in PG county, ie Kentland?
                          Chicago, you can guarentee all your memebers abide by the internations rules on volunteering?
                          As for the rest, are there any dues paying union firefighters on YOUR department working on a vollie or POC department?
                          If so, why?
                          Why haven't YOU brought them up on charges? Why haven't you ensured your local has somehow brough sanctions against them? Why haven't you ensured they been fair-shaired out?
                          If not, why?
                          It's easy here on the internet to make your point, threaten those that don't agree, call names. But you may want to ensure your own house is clean before you start calling somone else's dirty.
                          St. Paul local 21, 400 firefighters, not 1 vollie or POC. All IAW our local, the international, and the city. But I would venture to say, it's much easier to turn a blind eye and collect dues. All based on the almighty dollar.
                          My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
                          "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
                          George Mason
                          Co-author of the Second Amendment
                          during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
                          Elevator Rescue Information

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by FFFRED
                            FyredUp,

                            If you aren't vollying for a rival orgainization I don't know why you'd be taking up their cause as you have been?

                            FTM-PTB
                            FFFRED...

                            I guess you haven't comprehended a single thing I have written. I have stated repeatedly:

                            1) Do not volly into an FD with career FF's.
                            2) If my volly, POC actually, ever even starts talking about hiring full timers I will quit.

                            Do tell me if the story that circulated when the FDNY came back into the fold of the IAFF is true or not. The story out here in the heartland is the IAFF wanted all of your guys to stop vollying and were told to **** off if they wanted to push it. So instead of losing 12,000 more dues paying Union members the IAFF turned a blind eye to it and the local hasn't pushed it either. If in fact it is such an issue and YOUR local says it is wrong how many of the guys who volunteer in LI, or other places in New York or CT or even at Kentland have been fair shared out of your local? It sure is easy to call me a scab on the internet when your FD has a ton of them. How about this idea...if it is such an issue clean up your own house and stop sounding like a hypocrit about what is good for me when your own FD turns a blind eye to it.

                            FyredUp
                            Crazy, but that's how it goes
                            Millions of people living as foes
                            Maybe it's not too late
                            To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ekhaber
                              Fyred Up,

                              Wow how your tone has changed,

                              Not really. Maybe you stopped ranting long enough to read what I posted.

                              You serve on the Unions Heath and Safety Committee and the Aparatus Committee (or so you claim, I dont believe you are a IAFF member).

                              Yes I do serve on those committees. Frankly I don't care what you believe.

                              However you work as a vollie.

                              Well, no, actually to be more correct I am a POC firefighter on my off days.

                              If you get injured as a vollie what do you do.

                              Ummm, gee, file worker's compensation through the POC FD. WOW!! That was tough to figure out.

                              Claim it on you vollie department or defraud your union department.

                              Not necessary as my POC FD has worker's compensation. Frankly the thought of defrauding my career Fd for insurance reasons would never have occured to me. Maybe if I scabbed in the trades that would be valuable information to know.

                              If you are as old as you claim, why would you risk the security of you and your family.

                              Ummm, because I want to. I often wonder why guys that roof on their off days would risk falling off from a roof. Or the guys who ski would risk breaking a leg or dieing. Or the guys who hunt would risk getting shot. Maybe some people just have different motivations for what they choose to do on their off days.

                              As a member of the health and safety commitee you should be aware that your risk of injury at fires increases as you get older. Also as you get older your body requires more time to heal. Why would you advocate working at another fire department? Unless neither of you departments has any runs.

                              Oh my God...now I volly because I don't get any action. You are a trip. I can't make you understand a motivation for why i do what I do when it is clear you have no willingness to even listen. I don't advocate that anyone do what I do because I do it. If guys want to volly it is THEIR business.

                              These facts are know to all IAFF heath and safety members.

                              And do you tell the young guys on your job to vollie and risk their pension before they are vested.

                              Read the above statement. I don't tell anyone to volly or not volly. Ot is their business and their decision.

                              There is more to it than just community how about common scence.
                              Look why won't a single one of you answer the question I have posted a couple of times. What if a career firefighter works part-time in a POC FD that is Unionized. Is he still a scab? He is in the Union after all and this line has been used to justify guys working in the trades. So which is it? Is he a good Union Brother because he has the card or not?

                              FyredUp
                              Last edited by FyredUp; 11-15-2006, 08:05 PM.
                              Crazy, but that's how it goes
                              Millions of people living as foes
                              Maybe it's not too late
                              To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by SPFDRum
                                Mike Ward, are there any D.C. firefighters paying union dues working in PG county, ie Kentland?
                                With seven posts on the Fighting on the Fireground thread you know the answer. Local 36 (Washington DC) did file charges on 40 of its members that were in violation of Resolution 43. A trial board was held in Wilmington, Delaware.

                                Fyred Up, you need to re-read the letter from the International president that was posted at the start of this thread. Paid-on-call firefighters are not supported by the IAFF.

                                While this issue brings much heat and hate, it is not the priority for most IAFF locals. It *IS* a big deal in Prince Georges County (MD) because so many of the volunteer command officers, presidents and leaders are members of other IAFF locals. Some of these two-hatters loved to mess with the PGFD career staff who are members of Local 1619. THAT is why Resolution 43 was submitted at the 2000 IAFF convention.

                                Contract compliance, pay/benefits, health/safety, personnel actions and working conditions are the big five for the local labor organization. The priorities are established on what each local needs to do for it's membership.

                                I am glad to hear that so many who post here have excellent benefits if they get hurt while "playing." That was not true for two Fort Worth (Texas) firefighters who died in a church collapse while donating their services to their hometown, all-volunteer, department. (Read the Brother vs. Brother article for details.)

                                Thousands of hours and millions of words have been committed to the conflict between career and volunteer firefighters. Most of it is unproductive and corrosive, devolving into a schoolyard "I am better than you" fight.

                                While there may be the same job tasks, there are DIFFERENT internal and external environments and value systems. Neither is better nor worse.

                                A volunteer firefighter is not an unpaid career firefighter.
                                A career firefighter donating his time to another fire department is not a professional volunteer firefighter.
                                Last edited by MikeWard; 11-15-2006, 08:51 PM.

                                Comment

                                300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

                                Collapse

                                Upper 300x250

                                Collapse

                                Taboola

                                Collapse

                                Leader

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X