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  • PAID vs PAID vs IAFF??? wow

    For the past years I've worked for my department , I've had the privilege of serving my community in the upmost dignity and respect. Although, working under the protection of the IAFF I thought I would not be attacked for volunteering at another department 60 miles away from my career. I was sent a letter, also 2 other of my friends where sent this letter. stating the Union would drop me from the IAFF if I continued to volunteer for a complete separate department. This comes after having a Union meeting and standing up for my home town volunteers. A firefighter, that I will not mention by name, said Volunteers are useless, and are better dead than risking the lives of paid staff. This made me extremely upset. In which I stated I was a volunteer ( Which they had known for years) and that I trust my life with the volunteers I serve with. This started a big argument amongst the 40 of us, they basically said I was taking away jobs from future career firefighters... This makes absolutely know since. The town I volunteer for has a population of 4000... The department can't afford to pay for a fire fighter. I'm a paramedic, so I help all that I can. The people that where on my side, which is most of them. Spoke out, and said they volunteer as well for other departments. How can the IAFF do this? I guess I'm going to have to protest the union.

  • #2
    Can I ask what state you are in? We had something similar come up around me not too long ago....

    And for the record - my Dad's cousin is retired FDNY - while working there he rose through the ranks in his hometown Vol. FD up through Chief.....

    I have heard of conflicts with someone wanting to volunteer in a district covered by a combo department - or in one of the neighboring mutual aid districts - a clear conflict of interest if he responded into the jurisdiction where he worked.....

    When the union says they will drop 'you' from the IAFF - not sure how that works - maybe someone else here can chime in.....not sure they could truthfully do that or if they are just trying to pressure you into not volunteering?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by pasobuff View Post
      Can I ask what stazte you are in? We had something similar come up around me not too long ago....

      And for the record - my Dad's cousin is retired FDNY - while working there he rose through the ranks in his hometown Vol. FD up through Chief.....

      I have heard of conflicts with someone wanting to volunteer in a district covered by a combo department - or in one of the neighboring mutual aid districts - a clear conflict of interest if he responded into the jurisdiction where he worked.....

      When the union says they will drop 'you' from the IAFF - not sure how that works - maybe someone else here can chime in.....not sure they could truthfully do that or if they are just trying to pressure you into not volunteering?
      If you private message me I'll tell you, I just don't want this to leave the forum if you know what I mean. It's rough times here. They can drop me from the IAFF, and the department will force me to still pay, but I won't be protected. It's actually complete bull****. that's how I understand it. My Union leader is turning on me and my crew, and I believe is lying to our union rep, I've contacted the union asking why they are sending me this stuff. Haven't heard back from them though... I believe you are right though, I don't think the union can do that. (It's even possible the guys sent us this **** to scare us, and if that's the case that's awful) What I do on my free time is my time... I'm not volunteering on the clock. Our districts our different. It's in a different county too. Not even a mutial aid possibility.

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      • #4
        And people wonder why I think unions have no place in America, and why I have such hatred for the IAFF.

        I'm sorry bro as this is an example of what is wrong with the IAFF and the "career only" mentality that some of the members have in regards to fire protection in most of America.
        Train to fight the fires you fight.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by skylarmorris89 View Post
          For the past years I've worked for my department , I've had the privilege of serving my community in the upmost dignity and respect. Although, working under the protection of the IAFF I thought I would not be attacked for volunteering at another department 60 miles away from my career. I was sent a letter, also 2 other of my friends where sent this letter. stating the Union would drop me from the IAFF if I continued to volunteer for a complete separate department. This comes after having a Union meeting and standing up for my home town volunteers. A firefighter, that I will not mention by name, said Volunteers are useless, and are better dead than risking the lives of paid staff. This made me extremely upset. In which I stated I was a volunteer ( Which they had known for years) and that I trust my life with the volunteers I serve with. This started a big argument amongst the 40 of us, they basically said I was taking away jobs from future career firefighters... This makes absolutely know since. The town I volunteer for has a population of 4000... The department can't afford to pay for a fire fighter. I'm a paramedic, so I help all that I can. The people that where on my side, which is most of them. Spoke out, and said they volunteer as well for other departments. How can the IAFF do this? I guess I'm going to have to protest the union.
          I think first, we need to clarify who exactly has made this notification to you. Was it the IAFF or was it YOUR Local? My guess would be that it was your Local and not the IAFF itself.


          I'm by no means an absolute authority on the matter, but a couple of thoughts come to mind regarding the situation that may be helpful.....

          Did everybody in your Local who volunteers get this same letter? If not, then you probably have a good argument for being "targeted".

          What was the process used to arrive at the decision to make this notification? Basically, did your Local officials meet and decide that they believed a violation was occurring and do it in accordance with the Local's Constitution & By-Laws?

          Did the letter specify what "rule" you are violating? This would be important for "fighting" the charge. If they are citing the infamous rule regarding "rival organizations", then I think they may have a hard time proving that a small town VFD 60 miles away is a "rival organization" since this is pretty much the very type of organization that the IAFF "rule" is not about.

          Maybe with a little time to "cool off", the issue might go away.

          If not and you feel that your officers are not acting properly, then I'd suggest, at least informally, looking to any contacts you may have in a nearby Local for some assistance. Maybe a fellow officer (or two) from another Local could "mediate" and facilitate a resolution.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
            And people wonder why I think unions have no place in America, and why I have such hatred for the IAFF.

            I'm sorry bro as this is an example of what is wrong with the IAFF and the "career only" mentality that some of the members have in regards to fire protection in most of America.
            No, we really don't wonder why because you constantly tell us why, even when there's no reason for you to do so. Like this thread for example.

            You are in no position to answer the question posed as it is entirely a Union matter and you don't belong to the Union in question.

            So, look all you want, just keep your thoughts to yourself since you clearly have a history of showing that you know absolutely nothing regarding this Union's matters and will have nothing productive to add to the discussion.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
              And people wonder why I think unions have no place in America, and why I have such hatred for the IAFF.

              I'm sorry bro as this is an example of what is wrong with the IAFF and the "career only" mentality that some of the members have in regards to fire protection in most of America.
              Sierra Tango Foxtrot Uniform. This doesn't concern you.
              ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
              Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                And people wonder why I think unions have no place in America, and why I have such hatred for the IAFF.
                WRONG!!! We don't wonder that at all. We know.

                Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                I'm sorry bro as this is an example of what is wrong with the IAFF and the "career only" mentality that some of the members have in regards to fire protection in most of America.
                For all you know this story is completely bogus. That's how I'm approaching it till proven otherwise.
                They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by scfire86 View Post
                  For all you know this story is completely bogus. That's how I'm approaching it till proven otherwise.
                  I agree... seems suspicious in light of the other recent threads.

                  I smell a scarecrow.
                  I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                  "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                  "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by skylarmorris89 View Post
                    If you private message me I'll tell you, I just don't want this to leave the forum if you know what I mean. It's rough times here. They can drop me from the IAFF, and the department will force me to still pay, but I won't be protected. It's actually complete bull****. that's how I understand it. My Union leader is turning on me and my crew, and I believe is lying to our union rep, I've contacted the union asking why they are sending me this stuff. Haven't heard back from them though... I believe you are right though, I don't think the union can do that. (It's even possible the guys sent us this **** to scare us, and if that's the case that's awful) What I do on my free time is my time... I'm not volunteering on the clock. Our districts our different. It's in a different county too. Not even a mutial aid possibility.
                    Does your volunteer dept have any paid staff represented by the IAFF? If so, that is probably the issue with your local.

                    If you are booted of the union, you pay "fair share" dues. It should be a reduced rate from your current dues. You have to pay because the union still negotiates the labor contract you work under. The union will not represent you if you are in trouble with your employer because you are no longer a member of the local.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This happened to a guy I was in the guard with. He was prevented from voting in the union for volunteering for another town while being employed by a city fd. I can't copy the link, but you should find the link easily by googling Duluth iaff Brian black. Statter911 had the article.

                      -Damien

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think FireMedic is correct with this being a local issue. I had the opportunity to speak to some higher ups at IAFF about this several years ago. They were rather vague on what IS a rival organization but were very clear on what is NOT. Hooterville VFD with 20 volunteers and two old engines is not a rival. Utopia VFD with 4 stations, 200 volunteers and a $2 million budget is.

                        Another point to consider is what if you get hurt at your vollie house? Your career job isn't going to pay you workmen's comp and I doubt the union will fight really hard for you. I'm sure there's a lot more to this issue.

                        Be safe. Good luck.

                        Joe

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JoeMZ191 View Post
                          Another point to consider is what if you get hurt at your vollie house? Your career job isn't going to pay you workmen's comp and I doubt the union will fight really hard for you.
                          I would hope he has workmans comp coverage through his volunteer organization.
                          "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JoeMZ191 View Post
                            I think FireMedic is correct with this being a local issue. I had the opportunity to speak to some higher ups at IAFF about this several years ago. They were rather vague on what IS a rival organization but were very clear on what is NOT. Hooterville VFD with 20 volunteers and two old engines is not a rival. Utopia VFD with 4 stations, 200 volunteers and a $2 million budget is.

                            Another point to consider is what if you get hurt at your vollie house? Your career job isn't going to pay you workmen's comp and I doubt the union will fight really hard for you. I'm sure there's a lot more to this issue.

                            Be safe. Good luck.

                            Joe
                            So why would a volunteer department with a $2m budget be a rival organization?

                            Because the union thinks they should have career members because the union thinks they should be able to afford them?

                            So because the vollies still have the manpower to do the job and they don't need paid staff, they are a rival organization?

                            The fact is it's not the damn union's job to decide who in their infinite wisdom should have paid staff. Sorry, but that line of thinking is nothing but a bunch of crap.
                            Last edited by LaFireEducator; 04-17-2011, 09:29 PM.
                            Train to fight the fires you fight.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                              So why would a volunteer department with a $2m budget be a rival organization?

                              Because the union thinks they should have career members because the union thinks they should be able to afford them?

                              So because the vollies still have the manpower to do the job and they don't need paid staff, they are a rival organization?

                              The fact is it's not the damn union's job to decide who in their infinite wisdom should have paid staff. Sorry, but that line of thinking is nothing but a bunch of crap.
                              Don't worry. You'll never be in a position to make that type of decision.
                              They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

                              I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

                              Comment

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