Firefighter's Funeral- Total cult of hero-worship?

[CALFFBOU]

Wow, someone is sour grapes over an intersection closing for Firefighter funeral.

Link- http://www.sbsun.com/letters/ci_8552779?source=email

Official arrogance
Article Launched: 03/12/2008 10:38:46 PM PDT


Once again, government employees have arrogantly abused the people.
March 5, around 12:15 p.m., the California Highway Patrol stopped all eastbound traffic near Alabama Street in Redlands to make way for a funeral procession. Said procession consisted of dozens of firetrucks from dozens of agencies and departments.

Thousands of truckers, mommies, business people, and the elderly were trapped on the interstate.

For what was this grand procession? Another firefighter?

This is an example of the maximum arrogance practiced regularly today by public service agencies. None of those extremely-expensive trucks and their well-paid passengers were available for any real emergencies in their home departments.

And, I might add, this is a prime example of extreme narcissism on the part of the deceased's family. Total cult of hero-worship.

What? That's so insensitive.

Well, how insensitive is it to hold up thousands of people trying to make appointments and deliveries for one dead guy? And if he or she were a true hero, he or she wouldn't have wanted this grand outpouring of official adulation anyway.

This strong-arm government bullying has got to stop.

KEN JOHNSON
Beaumont, CA

[RspctFrmCalgary]

Well Brett, I'm not going to be as diplomatic as you were ....

WHAT A F'N MUTT!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[mcaldwell]

Ain't it a beaut that all these "government employees" have kept him so safe and comfy that the worst thing in his life to bitch and moan about is being held up for 20 minutes for a funeral procession? ;)

There should almost be a bit of quiet pride in the fact that he even wrote that. A pride that he will never understand.

[johnny46]

Another guy bitter because he didn't pass the muster.

[KyleWickman]

Funny. I happen to be down the road in Palm Springs. Maybe I should show some Jersey Love. :)

[Pimpala03]

Gee!, wonder what they would say about this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Spv12dA0wLQ

[Firemedic 61]

Opinions are like a$$holes, everyones got one. What else do you expect out of the opinion section of the paper. Most of the people who write in have no life and want to make a big deal out of nothing, its just something for them to do to feel better about their meaningless lives. Don't take it personal, these people would complain about a cure for cancer.

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

I agree with 61. He obviously is a jerk.

[dave29]

Well Brett, I'm not going to be as diplomatic as you were ....

WHAT A F'N MUTT!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

AMEN!!!!!!!

[CaptainGonzo]

This was my post on the Sun's website...
RE: "Official Arrogance"

I find it appalling that Ken Johnson of Beaumont has the unmitigated audacity to complain about the stopping of traffic for a firefighter funeral. I'm sure he has no problem being protected by firefighters, police offcers and EMS personnel 24/7/365.

Some of them make the ultimate sacrifice in doing their job for total strangers.

By the way... ask any firefighter, cop , paramedic or any one in the military if they feel that they are heroes. They will tell you that they are just doing their job.

[RspctFrmCalgary]

Nicely done, Ron.

[snowball]

A few weeks after my brothers funeral, I was talking with a friend who relayed some info to me about a conversation he had with a guy about the total waste of taxpayer money for his funeral. He said that they didn't need to make such a "big deal" out of it. He complained that the 1 1/2 mile procession delayed traffic that he was caught in. He was curious as to when he passed, if the phone company was going to make a "big deal" over his funeral.
Who is the guy that said all of this?

He was one of my brothers friends from K-12 grades.:rolleyes:

[scfire86]

Cut the guy some slack. If you've ever been throught Beaumont, CA you'd know why he is so bitter.

I'd shoot myself if my life ended up having to live there.

[mvfd27]

By the way... ask any firefighter, cop , paramedic or any one in the military if they feel that they are heroes. They will tell you that they are just doing their job.

You raise a great point and I would add that the ff dedicated himself to helping others and ensuring their safety. The least Mr. Johnson and the others can give him is a few minutes of respect while his friends and loved ones pay theirs. Not that he or any of us would expect it or request it.

[FWDbuff]

My comment, just posted:

Mr. Johnson: What a sad, pathetic, unaccomplished life you must lead day in and day out. Perhaps you should consult your therapist about increasing your doseage of prozac. Enough said.

PS- I dont think I am a hero. I am just doing my job.

Randy V. Yardumian
Hellertown, Pennsylvania.
an "officially arrogant" firefighter

[FFJLOVE]

No Respect

[frenchfireball]

Opinions are like a$$holes, everyones got one. What else do you expect out of the opinion section of the paper. Most of the people who write in have no life and want to make a big deal out of nothing, its just something for them to do to feel better about their meaningless lives. Don't take it personal, these people would complain about a cure for cancer.

i think you are totally right and expressed very well the situation.

[fire0099881]

Originally quoted by CaptainGonzo: By the way... ask any firefighter, cop , paramedic or any one in the military if they feel that they are heroes. They will tell you that they are just doing their job.


Sorry gonz, didn't realize you wrote that till after I read it on the other website!

Unless you get those ones that think they are god's gift to firefighting.

It's a shame that someone can't R.I.P without someone crying/moaning about it. if the person would've left a few mins. earlier instead of waiting till the last possible min. to rush to get to whereever he is going he wouldn't of been held up.

[len1582]

. . . Oh Mr. Johnson
.

[nameless]

probably scored a 70 on the test

[Missa228]

I could not sit by and not say anything. Thank you to all brothers and sisters for the effort you give 24/7/365!!


In regards to Ken Johnson of Beaumont:
I am so succintly reminded by your post of why I am proud to be a southern firefighter. On March 13th I was given the opportunity to accompany my Lieutenant to the funerals of Victor Isler and Justin Monroe in Salisbury, NC. This was one of the most touching processions I have ever seen or been a part of. The entire town stopped what they were doing just to come outside and give a silent salute to the fallen firefighters. Both lost their lives in a fire on March 7th. Not one person complained that traffic was stopped. Noone complained that they couldn't go to the corner store. BUT every single person we passed during the procession had the same emotion we did - GRIEF over the loss of someone willing to stop their life to rush in to a burning building on the off chance that he/she might actually make a difference by saving a life or by saving someone's home or livelyhood. The loss of a brother firefighter brings the same emotion as the loss of a blood brother because we ARE family. We are brothers and sisters that care enough to make the effort. We are brothers and sisters that give no second thought to laying down our lives for anyone else.
So Mr. Johnson, before you go whining about hero worship and being stuck in traffic, put yourself in a firefighter's shoes or a police officer's or an EMS worker's!!!! Know what they are willing to risk to save an ungrateful whining peon that turns around and raises cain over the use of government funds to buy the equipment that they used.
OH AND BY THE WAY, fellow firefighters from other stations and volunteers from around the area give up the chance to attend the final farewell so that the effected station has coverage for those uncaring homosapiens that complain because traffic was stopped and then cause a wreck trying to make up time they lost when they should have been giving respect for the loss.

[snowball]

probably scored a 70 on the test

No that would be a passing score.

[SON044]

Bou, more context please. Was this a LODD?

[mvfd27]

Unless you get those ones that think they are god's gift to firefighting.

It's a shame that someone can't R.I.P without someone crying/moaning about it. if the person would've left a few mins. earlier instead of waiting till the last possible min. to rush to get to whereever he is going he wouldn't of been held up.

By the way... ask any firefighter, cop , paramedic or any one in the military if they feel that they are heroes. They will tell you that they are just doing their job.--Actually, Originallly quoted by Capt. Gonzo

Due to poor referrencing I may have unintentionally appeared to claim that quote. No disrespect intended. You also make a valid point that some us portray that image...but fortunately they are in the minority.

[fire0099881]

mvfd27, went back and corrected my original post, thanks for the correction!

[GFD748]

probably scored a 70 on the test

Are you sure he went that high?

This is the second such story I've heard out of Cal. The first was a couple that complained about having soot and ash in there pool and not being able to fix her hair. This was during the brush fire last fall, are all the civilians in Cal. like this? What a bunch of MUTTS. I'm proud of what I do and will continue to save these peoples sorry a$$es and not think twice about it because this is the life I choose.

[CALFFBOU]

Bou, more context please. Was this a LODD?

Sorry, I dont have any more information.

[SON044]

Here is the Back story
http://www.sbsun.com/search/ci_8469689?IADID=Search-www.sbsun.com-www.sbsun.com

[the1141man]

KEN JOHNSON
Beaumont, CA

Damn! And here I was almost 100% the sigline would say "Berkeley, CA".
Oh well.

At least around here, PD stops and controls intersections for all funeral processions, FF or not... he going to b!tch about them too?

[MikeWard]

Do not miss the fact that his house was ransacked during the funeral.

http://www.sbsun.com/search/ci_8497402?IADID=Search-www.sbsun.com-www.sbsun.com

[Lieutenant387]

Wow, someone is sour grapes over an intersection closing for Firefighter funeral.

KEN JOHNSON
Beaumont, CA

Can anyone find this mutts personal info, like address and such??? Would like to send him a care package.

[HereToLearn]

God that article makes my blood boil!

[scfire86]

Folks, this is just the way it is in CA. Public servants everywhere are under attack as being overpaid and underworked.

When times are good and people are making money hand over fist, civil servants are regarded as those who can't make it in the real world. As economic times become more challenging, there is more scrutiny.

I don't know about other locales, but that is the way it is here. Our local rag is constantly publishing Op Eds critical of firefighter and police pay and benefits.

[KEEPBACK200FEET]

"You sir, are a fuc*ing mutt. How would you feel if that dead guy was a member of your family? It's ***holes like you who make this world such a sh*tty place. Calm the **** down and realize that that guy gave a supreme sacrifice, something you will never accomplish. "No greater love has a man, than to lay down his life for his friends." Think about that for a while ***hole and then you will get your fuc*ing answer."

[CALFFBOU]

Folks, this is just the way it is in CA. Public servants everywhere are under attack as being overpaid and underworked.

When times are good and people are making money hand over fist, civil servants are regarded as those who can't make it in the real world. As economic times become more challenging, there is more scrutiny.

I don't know about other locales, but that is the way it is here. Our local rag is constantly publishing Op Eds critical of firefighter and police pay and benefits.


Thats pretty much it. My friend the CHP Officer just loves writing tickets to snobs during the down times. (in their Lexus, BMWs, etc...)

[CommDiva]

I wonder if Mr Johnson would be complaining if the deceased was a member of the military, killed in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Obviously, he is also unaware that probably most of the firefighters that were in the procession were doing so on their own time, and on their own dime too (if they'd traveled a distance for the funeral). OF COURSE they weren't available for emergencies, they weren't on duty! But I'd bet that if Mr Johnson were to suffer an MI behind the wheel of his car during the passing of the funeral procession, more than one of those 'overpaid' mourners would have come to his aid!:rolleyes:

Pat

[DugdogFiredog]

I'm speechless......

I can't believe that newspaper would even publish that. WTF!?!?!?!?!

[scfire86]

I wonder if Mr Johnson would be complaining if the deceased was a member of the military, killed in Iraq or Afghanistan.
He lives in Beaumont, CA. The answer is probably yes.

[JLam77]

I think it's no use getting worked up over idiots. With the advent of the internet, every jacked up schmuck with a chip on his shoulder now has the potential for a worldwide audience.

The best way to respond to morons like this is to ignore them. There aren't enough of them to make much of a difference. Ask any random person on the street what he/she thinks of firefighters and I guarantee you're not likely to hear the phrase "cult of hero worship" very often.

Getting upset does no good. It just makes you frustrated, and in the end the guy who made the comments will still be an idiot, so what's the point?

[Mzanghetti]

Well Brett, I'm not going to be as diplomatic as you were ....

WHAT A F'N MUTT!!!!! :mad: . . .

YOUR STILL BEING FAR TOO KIND!!!!!! :mad: :mad: THis guy deserves far worse than being called an F***N MUTT! :mad:

[the1141man]

Folks, this is just the way it is in CA. Public servants everywhere are under attack as being overpaid and underworked.

When times are good and people are making money hand over fist, civil servants are regarded as those who can't make it in the real world. As economic times become more challenging, there is more scrutiny.

I don't know about other locales, but that is the way it is here. Our local rag is constantly publishing Op Eds critical of firefighter and police pay and benefits.

Mark the date in the calendar, folks...SC and I just agreed on something. :eek:

Does anyone's departments ever do the "fill the helmet/boot" fundraisers for local charities like burn wards, pediatric hospitals, etc??? A few departments around here do... off-duty (or volly) FFs stand at a couple of street corners in their bunkers or dept shirts and have their helmets ready for passing motorists to toss in a few bucks or change, right?

Last year when they did this, the Opinion section filled up with rants about "misuse of government property" (the turnouts), "my tax dollars paying for them to stand around" (remember: off-duty career guys and some vollies), etc, etc... :rolleyes:

It's not like they're even asking for the money for their own uses...the vollies around here have their own fundraisers that have nothing to do with the "fill the helmet/boot" charity events.

Ironically, another (civilian) group did a very similar fundraiser, only they were selling special newspaper editions (and they were on every streetcorner!)... yet not a peep from the Peanut Gallery. :mad:

[MikeWard]

shameless tease

One out of five members of the community have a negative opinion about local government, including firefighters.

This group has been growing in power.

Check out http://www.firegeezer.com Tuesday at noon (east coast) for more ....


or you may want to look at Chapter 3 in the 2002 ICMA Managing Fire and Rescue Services.

___________________

I think we will see increased negative responses if more municipalities are forced to curtain services and point to public safety staffing (and overtime) as the reason.

[Weruj1]

how pitiful. Rest In Peace.

[dday05]

This Johnson JERK OFF has spoken like a true A#@*OLE. I really like when F#$KS like hime flap their gums and have no idea what they are even talking about! I have one word for you F-YOU! YOU INSENSITIVE PRICK!

[CALFFBOU]

Wow! :eek:

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

And I'm the one that got banned?

[Bones42]

Honestly, when I die, I don't care for a long parade/procession either.

You want to show respect for me...follow my wishes.

[BULL321]

Living in a area where, even today, most people will stop and pull over for a complete stranger's funeral procession, even in the oncoming lane as a show of respect. It Is hard for me to understand why this tick turd is so upset. But it is CA, so what do you expect. Scratch that, being from CA has nothing to do with it. There are a*sholes like this everywhere. Thank God that most people don't feel this way.

Stay Safe
Bull

[KnightnPBIArmor]

Living in a area where, even today, most people will stop and pull over for a complete stranger's funeral procession, even in the oncoming lane as a show of respect.

Bull, that is still customary here as well. I remember once being in the procession for the funeral of a firefighter from a neighboring county who was killed off duty in an MVC. Well, we were travelling down a four lane highway in town and everyone was pulled over except for this soccer mom who came flying up alongside the procession in her Beemer. Word was passed via radio up the line what was happening, and just as she got near the engine bearing the casket a quint and engine pulled over into her lane fore and aft of her and kept her from passing the caisson, and also forced her to follow at the same speed as the procession until she reached her exit. They said they couldn't tell what she was saying but they said she was in that car sqauwking like a wet hen until she peeled off at her exit :D ;)

[Bones42]

a quint and engine pulled over into her lane fore and aft of her and kept her from passing the caisson, and also forced her to follow at the same speed as the procession until she reached her exit.and we wonder how people get their opinions of the fire service...

[KnightnPBIArmor]

and we wonder how people get their opinions of the fire service...

If keeping someone from disrespecting a fallen brother gives them a negative impression of the fire service then so be it in my book. Not 100% sure if it is still on the books but in the not so distant past in the state of Georgia you could actually be ticketing for passing ANY funeral.

[MikeWard]

As teased, "The 20% Solution"

http://firegeezer.com/2008/03/18/the-20-solution/

I need to agree with Bones42, when mad our behavior does more damage than the original insult.

Mike

[scfire86]

a quint and engine pulled over into her lane fore and aft of her and kept her from passing the caisson, and also forced her to follow at the same speed as the procession until she reached her exit.
Other than forcing someone to drive in a set place and speed, what did that do? Other than make a couple of firefighters feel good about showing up a soccer mom?

[slackjawedyokel]

Mike ward beat me to it, you guys foaming at the mouth need to read the 20% solution at fire geezer.

[KnightnPBIArmor]

Other than forcing someone to drive in a set place and speed, what did that do? Other than make a couple of firefighters feel good about showing up a soccer mom?

It had nothing to do with making anyone feel good or being mad...it had to do with providing a little dignity and respect for a fallen brother. Everyone blast the idiots from Westboro that picket funerals, how is this any different? Everyone else on the road pulled over and most even got out of their cars, except for this one tool-ette...I guess coming from a part of the country where it is still customary and even in some places law to pull over for a funeral I see things differently, but then again I forget we are living in a time where manners and courtesy are seen as a form of simple-mindedness in this F.Y.I.G.M world :rolleyes:

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Everyone blast the idiots from Westboro that picket funerals, how is this any different?

Are you for real? This is the most absurd statement that I have seen on here in a long time.

How do you know that the woman was not rushing home to a sick child? How do you know she wasn't rushing to an elderly parent who had fallen ill? How do you know she was not the wife of a police officer who was injured in the line of duty and she was on the way to the hospital? Short answer-you don't.

I understand the basic point of this thread. But Mr. Johnson is not all wrong. Some of you are WAY over the top.

[MikeWard]

How do you know that the woman was not rushing home to a sick child? How do you know she wasn't rushing to an elderly parent who had fallen ill? How do you know she was not the wife of a police officer who was injured in the line of duty and she was on the way to the hospital? Short answer-you don't. Imagine THAT headline!

[KnightnPBIArmor]

Are you for real? This is the most absurd statement that I have seen on here in a long time.

How do you know that the woman was not rushing home to a sick child? How do you know she wasn't rushing to an elderly parent who had fallen ill? How do you know she was not the wife of a police officer who was injured in the line of duty and she was on the way to the hospital? Short answer-you don't.

I understand the basic point of this thread. But Mr. Johnson is not all wrong. Some of you are WAY over the top.

Um, I know she wasn't any of the above because she exited into a shopping center parking lot??? C'mon George, the MOST absurd? I can assure you there have been others who have out-absurded me recently :rolleyes: Welcome back BTW.

[scfire86]

Um, I know she wasn't any of the above because she exited into a shopping center parking lot??? C'mon George, the MOST absurd? I can assure you there have been others who have out-absurded me recently :rolleyes: Welcome back BTW.
It's one of the few times I agree with George. The individual citizen isn't required to pay homage to our fallen brethren.

It's an individual choice. And while we may not agree, that choice should be respected.

[ChiefKN]

That article by the Firegeezer is right on.

Ignore the 20%, you will get nowhere fighting publicly with one of the ungrateful.

[neversaydie69]

Wow, someone is sour grapes over an intersection closing for Firefighter funeral.

Link- http://www.sbsun.com/letters/ci_8552779?source=email

Official arrogance
Article Launched: 03/12/2008 10:38:46 PM PDT


Once again, government employees have arrogantly abused the people.
March 5, around 12:15 p.m., the California Highway Patrol stopped all eastbound traffic near Alabama Street in Redlands to make way for a funeral procession. Said procession consisted of dozens of firetrucks from dozens of agencies and departments.

Thousands of truckers, mommies, business people, and the elderly were trapped on the interstate.

For what was this grand procession? Another firefighter?

This is an example of the maximum arrogance practiced regularly today by public service agencies. None of those extremely-expensive trucks and their well-paid passengers were available for any real emergencies in their home departments.

And, I might add, this is a prime example of extreme narcissism on the part of the deceased's family. Total cult of hero-worship.

What? That's so insensitive.

Well, how insensitive is it to hold up thousands of people trying to make appointments and deliveries for one dead guy? And if he or she were a true hero, he or she wouldn't have wanted this grand outpouring of official adulation anyway.

This strong-arm government bullying has got to stop.

KEN JOHNSON
Beaumont, CA




they don't give Janitors this kind of respect.

ps: can you mop up when i'm done pissing on your grave.

[KnightnPBIArmor]

It's one of the few times I agree with George. .

Well then , amongst the absurdness I managed to accomplish something positive.....

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Um, I know she wasn't any of the above because she exited into a shopping center parking lot??? C'mon George, the MOST absurd? I can assure you there have been others who have out-absurded me recently :rolleyes: Welcome back BTW.

You don't know squat about her.

And it is the MOST absurd statement I have ever heard. Westboro Baptist Church is a radical group with an expressed mission of spreading their gospel of hatred by disrupting the funeral services of military personnel. You are comparing them to a woman who didn't pay respects to someone she didn't know. There is no crime in not caring about a dead FF. And if you believe that passing a funeral procession is a sign of disrespect, you really need to get over yourself.

[BLSboy]

You are right. You don't have to show respect. But you DO have to yield to emergency vehicles with warning devices activated, as well as funeral processions. And like the beeyotch who cut in behind me at Lt. Vazquez's funeral, you try to cut into a procession, you get a ticket.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

You are right. You don't have to show respect. But you DO have to yield to emergency vehicles with warning devices activated, as well as funeral processions. And like the beeyotch who cut in behind me at Lt. Vazquez's funeral, you try to cut into a procession, you get a ticket.

Your moving right up there in the absurd comment category...

You only have to yield to an emergency vehicle IF THEY ARE RESPONDING TO AN EMERGENCY! According to NJ law, you shouldn't even have the lghts on for a funeral as it is clearly not an emergency.

There is no Title 2C statute for cutting into a funeral procession unless you are conducting a demonstration. I'm a little rusty on my Title 39, so if there is a reason to give someone a summons, help me out. I don't remember such a statute.

[BLSboy]

I'm not talking Jersey, George. I was citing my experience here.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

I'm not talking Jersey, George. I was citing my experience here.

I thought you were in NJ. For the record, there does not appear to be a statute prohibiting someone from passing a funeral in FL either.

And you still don't have tp yield an emergency vehicle not responding to an emergency.

[BLSboy]

I thought you were in NJ. For the record, there does not appear to be a statute prohibiting someone from passing a funeral in FL either.

And you still don't have tp yield an emergency vehicle not responding to an emergency.

Nope. I followed your advice, abandoned Jersey, and am in Medic school, then trying to get hired at a career dept. (hopefully Orlando)
I'm looking through Fla statutes now about to see if one exists.

[BLSboy]

Yup.

316.1974 Funeral procession right-of-way and liability.--

(1) DEFINITIONS.--

(a) "Funeral director" and "funeral establishment" shall have the same meaning as set forth in s. 497.005.

(b) "Funeral procession" means two or more vehicles accompanying the body of a deceased person, or traveling to the church, chapel, or other location at which the funeral service is to be held, in the daylight hours, including a funeral lead vehicle or a funeral escort vehicle.

(c) "Funeral lead vehicle" means any authorized law enforcement or non-law enforcement motor vehicle properly equipped pursuant to subsection (2) or a funeral escort vehicle being used to lead and facilitate the movement of a funeral procession. A funeral hearse may serve as a funeral lead vehicle.

(d) "Funeral escort" means a person or entity that provides escort services for funeral processions, including law enforcement personnel and agencies.

(e) "Funeral escort vehicle" means any motor vehicle that is properly equipped pursuant to subsection (2) and which escorts a funeral procession.

(2) EQUIPMENT.--

(a) All non-law enforcement funeral escort vehicles and funeral lead vehicles shall be equipped with at least one lighted circulation lamp exhibiting an amber or purple light or lens visible under normal atmospheric conditions for a distance of 500 feet from the front of the vehicle. Flashing amber or purple lights may be used only when such vehicles are used in a funeral procession.

(b) Any law enforcement funeral escort vehicle may be equipped with red, blue, or amber flashing lights which meet the criteria established in paragraph (a).

(3) FUNERAL PROCESSION RIGHT-OF-WAY; FUNERAL ESCORT VEHICLES; FUNERAL LEAD VEHICLES.--

(a) Regardless of any traffic control device or right-of-way provisions prescribed by state or local ordinance, pedestrians and operators of all vehicles, except as stated in paragraph (c), shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle which is part of a funeral procession being led by a funeral escort vehicle or a funeral lead vehicle.

(b) When the funeral lead vehicle lawfully enters an intersection, either by reason of a traffic control device or at the direction of law enforcement personnel, the remaining vehicles in the funeral procession may follow through the intersection regardless of any traffic control devices or right-of-way provisions prescribed by state or local law.

(c) Funeral processions shall have the right-of-way at intersections regardless of traffic control devices, subject to the following conditions and exceptions:

1. Operators of vehicles in a funeral procession shall yield the right-of-way to an approaching emergency vehicle giving an audible or visible signal.

2. Operators of vehicles in a funeral procession shall yield the right-of-way when directed to do so by a police officer.

3. Operators of vehicles in a funeral procession must exercise due care when participating in a funeral procession.

(4) DRIVING IN PROCESSION.--

(a) All vehicles comprising a funeral procession shall follow the preceding vehicle in the funeral procession as closely as is practical and safe.

(b) Any ordinance, law, or regulation stating that motor vehicles shall be operated to allow sufficient space enabling any other vehicle to enter and occupy such space without danger shall not be applicable to vehicles in a funeral procession.

(c) Each vehicle which is part of a funeral procession shall have its headlights, either high or low beam, and tail lights lighted and may also use the flashing hazard lights if the vehicle is so equipped.

(5) LIABILITY.--

(a) Liability for any death, personal injury, or property damage suffered on or after October 1, 1997, by any person in a funeral procession shall not be imposed upon the funeral director or funeral establishment or their employees or agents unless such death, personal injury, or property damage is proximately caused by the negligent or intentional act of an employee or agent of the funeral director or funeral establishment.

(b) A funeral director, funeral establishment, funeral escort, or other participant that leads, organizes, or participates in a funeral procession in accordance with this section shall be presumed to have acted with reasonable care.

(c) Except for a grossly negligent or intentional act by a funeral director or funeral establishment, there shall be no liability on the part of a funeral director or funeral establishment for failing, on or after October 1, 1997, to use reasonable care in the planning or selection of the route to be followed by the funeral procession.

(6) VIOLATIONS.--A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable pursuant to chapter 318 as a nonmoving violation for infractions of subsection (2), a pedestrian violation for infractions of subsection (3), or as a moving violation for infractions of subsection (3) or subsection (4) if the infraction resulted from the operation of a vehicle.

[KnightnPBIArmor]

You don't know squat about her.



Do you? A couple of years ago when the newspaper guy wrote the article that was less than complimentary to firefighters and firefighter funerals there were those that called for not responding to him if he ever dialed 911, letting his house burn down, etc. and you STILL say I have the most absurd statement you have ever heard? Even out-absurding Trotter??? Wow. And I was only relating something I witnessed while in a funeral procession. not something I did myself. :rolleyes:


P.S. welcome to the Absurd Club, BLS...your Secret Decorder Ring will be sent out with the afternoon mail....

[ThNozzleman]

I remember years ago having to pass a funeral procession to get to work on time. I was working on the other side of a neighboring city, which is about a forty-five minute trip on a state four lane highway. As I left my city, I came upon a funeral procession headed the same way I was going. Knowing there was a large and popular cemetary on the edge of town and noticing they were in the lefthand lane, I assumed they were headed there. So, I tagged along at about a 15 mph crawl. As the head of the procession approached the entrance to the cemetary, I was astonished to see them just drive right on by. I thought they might be headed down to turn and come back up the other side...but no, they continued on in the same direction, and at the same slow speed. So, I passed the procession as carefully as I could. As I began to catch up with the front of the procession (what I assumed were the family's cars) a woman leaned bodily out the window and began screaming obscenities at me. Nice. I'm sorry...screw you, I have to get to work. My bosses at the time did not tolerate tardiness...and that's putting it nicely. It's unfair and just plain stupid to expect untold hundreds (maybe thousands) of people to jeopordize their employment so you can creep up a four lane or interstate highway to some distant cemetary. Respect for the dead, even someone I don't know, is not a problem. But the funeral procession of yesterday on today's highways is just ridiculous, and unsafe. In fact, some poor bastard was killed here in my city a few years ago when a member of a funeral procession sped to make up a gap through a red light, broadsiding his car. He was just trying to get to work, too. I think funeral processions for the most part should be phased out, especially on highways and interstates. If they are used for ceromony, such as a public safety officer or government official, they should be limited in size and length. There are plenty of ways to honor the dead without inconveniencing commuters and risking the safety of others. Like someone else here said, as for me you can keep the procession out of my plans, or limit it to the road at the cemetary.

[scfire86]

It's a world gone mad when Nozz and I agree with George. But I never ceased to be amazed that others believe honoring their deceased is the most important thing in my life.

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

It all comes back to the nasty tone in the letter to the editor. We can argue the facts about protocol but it dosent change the fact that Ken Johnson is an *******.

[KnightnPBIArmor]

But I never ceased to be amazed that others believe honoring their deceased is the most important thing in my life.

And I never ceased to be amazed ( saddened actually) that the world has become such a busy and self important place that we can't take the time to honor the dead, firefighter or not. Of course as I have said where I live folks (for the most part) still pull over for funerals as a sign of respect. We also still bring food to the home of the deceased to ease the burden of the family for feeding out of town guests, and we also still say yes m'am, no m'am, please and thank you, all of which I'm sure would tag us as a bunch of hayseed rubes to the likes of you three :rolleyes: And if firefighter funeral processions mortify you so badly, I'm glad you weren't in Charleston last year.

[GFD748]

And I never ceased to be amazed ( saddened actually) that the world has become such a busy and self important place that we can't take the time to honor the dead, firefighter or not. Of course as I have said where I live folks (for the most part) still pull over for funerals as a sign of respect. We also still bring food to the home of the deceased to ease the burden of the family for feeding out of town guests, and we also still say yes m'am, no m'am, please and thank you, all of which I'm sure would tag us as a bunch of hayseed rubes to the likes of you three :rolleyes: And if firefighter funeral processions mortify you so badly, I'm glad you weren't in Charleston last year.


Or in Salisbury NC last week.

[DennisTheMenace]

And if you believe that passing a funeral procession is a sign of disrespect, you really need to get over yourself.Disrespectful or not, in most places cutting into or interuptting a funeral procession is against the law.

[scfire86]

And I never ceased to be amazed ( saddened actually) that the world has become such a busy and self important place that we can't take the time to honor the dead, firefighter or not. Of course as I have said where I live folks (for the most part) still pull over for funerals as a sign of respect. We also still bring food to the home of the deceased to ease the burden of the family for feeding out of town guests, and we also still say yes m'am, no m'am, please and thank you, all of which I'm sure would tag us as a bunch of hayseed rubes to the likes of you three :rolleyes: And if firefighter funeral processions mortify you so badly, I'm glad you weren't in Charleston last year.
And I still open doors and hold chairs for women. I address inviduals by their titles until told otherwise. I also care for the families of the deceased where possible.

I didn't say that firefighter funerals mortified me. I said we shouldn't have the self centered belief they are most important things in other people's lives.

Big difference.

[scfire86]

It all comes back to the nasty tone in the letter to the editor. We can argue the facts about protocol but it dosent change the fact that Ken Johnson is an *******.

I'll say it again. The guy lives in Beaumont, CA. It's nothing more than a bathroom break for those going to or from Palm Springs.

You be'd angry as well if you're life ended up there.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Yup.

316.1974 Funeral procession right-of-way and liability.--

(1) DEFINITIONS.--

(a) "Funeral director" and "funeral establishment" shall have the same meaning as set forth in s. 497.005.

(b) "Funeral procession" means two or more vehicles accompanying the body of a deceased person, or traveling to the church, chapel, or other location at which the funeral service is to be held, in the daylight hours, including a funeral lead vehicle or a funeral escort vehicle.

(c) "Funeral lead vehicle" means any authorized law enforcement or non-law enforcement motor vehicle properly equipped pursuant to subsection (2) or a funeral escort vehicle being used to lead and facilitate the movement of a funeral procession. A funeral hearse may serve as a funeral lead vehicle.

(d) "Funeral escort" means a person or entity that provides escort services for funeral processions, including law enforcement personnel and agencies.

(e) "Funeral escort vehicle" means any motor vehicle that is properly equipped pursuant to subsection (2) and which escorts a funeral procession.

(2) EQUIPMENT.--

(a) All non-law enforcement funeral escort vehicles and funeral lead vehicles shall be equipped with at least one lighted circulation lamp exhibiting an amber or purple light or lens visible under normal atmospheric conditions for a distance of 500 feet from the front of the vehicle. Flashing amber or purple lights may be used only when such vehicles are used in a funeral procession.

(b) Any law enforcement funeral escort vehicle may be equipped with red, blue, or amber flashing lights which meet the criteria established in paragraph (a).

(3) FUNERAL PROCESSION RIGHT-OF-WAY; FUNERAL ESCORT VEHICLES; FUNERAL LEAD VEHICLES.--

(a) Regardless of any traffic control device or right-of-way provisions prescribed by state or local ordinance, pedestrians and operators of all vehicles, except as stated in paragraph (c), shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle which is part of a funeral procession being led by a funeral escort vehicle or a funeral lead vehicle.

(b) When the funeral lead vehicle lawfully enters an intersection, either by reason of a traffic control device or at the direction of law enforcement personnel, the remaining vehicles in the funeral procession may follow through the intersection regardless of any traffic control devices or right-of-way provisions prescribed by state or local law.

(c) Funeral processions shall have the right-of-way at intersections regardless of traffic control devices, subject to the following conditions and exceptions:

1. Operators of vehicles in a funeral procession shall yield the right-of-way to an approaching emergency vehicle giving an audible or visible signal.

2. Operators of vehicles in a funeral procession shall yield the right-of-way when directed to do so by a police officer.

3. Operators of vehicles in a funeral procession must exercise due care when participating in a funeral procession.

(4) DRIVING IN PROCESSION.--

(a) All vehicles comprising a funeral procession shall follow the preceding vehicle in the funeral procession as closely as is practical and safe.

(b) Any ordinance, law, or regulation stating that motor vehicles shall be operated to allow sufficient space enabling any other vehicle to enter and occupy such space without danger shall not be applicable to vehicles in a funeral procession.

(c) Each vehicle which is part of a funeral procession shall have its headlights, either high or low beam, and tail lights lighted and may also use the flashing hazard lights if the vehicle is so equipped.

(5) LIABILITY.--

(a) Liability for any death, personal injury, or property damage suffered on or after October 1, 1997, by any person in a funeral procession shall not be imposed upon the funeral director or funeral establishment or their employees or agents unless such death, personal injury, or property damage is proximately caused by the negligent or intentional act of an employee or agent of the funeral director or funeral establishment.

(b) A funeral director, funeral establishment, funeral escort, or other participant that leads, organizes, or participates in a funeral procession in accordance with this section shall be presumed to have acted with reasonable care.

(c) Except for a grossly negligent or intentional act by a funeral director or funeral establishment, there shall be no liability on the part of a funeral director or funeral establishment for failing, on or after October 1, 1997, to use reasonable care in the planning or selection of the route to be followed by the funeral procession.

(6) VIOLATIONS.--A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable pursuant to chapter 318 as a nonmoving violation for infractions of subsection (2), a pedestrian violation for infractions of subsection (3), or as a moving violation for infractions of subsection (3) or subsection (4) if the infraction resulted from the operation of a vehicle.

I read that before. There is no provision in that statute to ticket someone cutting in line.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Do you? A couple of years ago when the newspaper guy wrote the article that was less than complimentary to firefighters and firefighter funerals there were those that called for not responding to him if he ever dialed 911, letting his house burn down, etc. and you STILL say I have the most absurd statement you have ever heard? Even out-absurding Trotter??? Wow. And I was only relating something I witnessed while in a funeral procession. not something I did myself. :rolleyes:


P.S. welcome to the Absurd Club, BLS...your Secret Decorder Ring will be sent out with the afternoon mail....

I don't have to know anything about her. I was not the moron playing games with a $500,000 piece of emergency equipment.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Disrespectful or not, in most places cutting into or interuptting a funeral procession is against the law.

Can you cite such a law?

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

And I never ceased to be amazed ( saddened actually) that the world has become such a busy and self important place that we can't take the time to honor the dead, firefighter or not. Of course as I have said where I live folks (for the most part) still pull over for funerals as a sign of respect. We also still bring food to the home of the deceased to ease the burden of the family for feeding out of town guests, and we also still say yes m'am, no m'am, please and thank you, all of which I'm sure would tag us as a bunch of hayseed rubes to the likes of you three :rolleyes: And if firefighter funeral processions mortify you so badly, I'm glad you weren't in Charleston last year.

Why in the world would you expect someone to "honor" someone that they don't know? Fire fighter or not?

Why would I pull over for a funeral procession? The procession shouldn't be going fast enough to pass me.

Do you bring food to the home of a perfect stranger? We frequently bring meals to people from our family and our church who are suffering from an illness or a death in the family. Why would I expect a perfect stranger to bring me food?

No one here accused you or anyone else of being "hayseed rubes". I raise my children to open doors for people, let ladies on the elevator first, address them respectfully. What makes you so special because you do that?

Where in the world do you get the idea that fire fighter funeral (or any other funeral for that matter) "mortifies" me? What mortifies me is that some people are so self-centered that you think every single person's life should stop when a fire fighter dies.

And BTW, you can start today and you will most likely never catch me in the number of fire and police funerals I have attended.

[LADDER2EKU]

From reading this thread there are many people who would have been very upset when the Virginia State Police shut down I-66 (I believe), and other roads as well, for my Aunts and Master Police Officer Garbarino's funeral processions. That was two saturdays in a row that the road was shut down. Even the people who got on before the closing pulled off the the side of the road for an incredibly long funeral procession. Nobody asked them to do that, but they did it out of respect anyway.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

From reading this thread there are many people who would have been very upset when the Virginia State Police shut down I-66 (I believe), and other roads as well, for my Aunts and Master Police Officer Garbarino's funeral processions. That was two saturdays in a row that the road was shut down. Even the people who got on before the closing pulled off the the side of the road for an incredibly long funeral procession. Nobody asked them to do that, but they did it out of respect anyway.

You don't find it somewhat ironic that the state police will shut down an interstate for a funeral but give us a hard time at the scene of an MVC?

[MikeWard]

From reading this thread there are many people who would have been very upset when the Virginia State Police shut down I-66 (I believe), and other roads as well, for my Aunts and Master Police Officer Garbarino's funeral processions. That was two saturdays in a row that the road was shut down. Even the people who got on before the closing pulled off the the side of the road for an incredibly long funeral procession. Nobody asked them to do that, but they did it out of respect anyway. The murder of your aunt and Master Police Office Garbarino in the parking lot of a police station was a major event in the Washington DC area.

That including the memorials and funerals. The media was reporting on both the procession and the related traffic impact, radio and television.

The death of Captain Vance Tomaselli did not create the same level of community awareness.

[BryanLoader]

Your moving right up there in the absurd comment category...

You only have to yield to an emergency vehicle IF THEY ARE RESPONDING TO AN EMERGENCY! According to NJ law, you shouldn't even have the lghts on for a funeral as it is clearly not an emergency.

There is no Title 2C statute for cutting into a funeral procession unless you are conducting a demonstration. I'm a little rusty on my Title 39, so if there is a reason to give someone a summons, help me out. I don't remember such a statute.

George
Isn't using NJ and LAW in the same paragraph somewhat of an oxymoron?
Bryan

[KnightnPBIArmor]

Why in the world would you expect someone to "honor" someone that they don't know? Fire fighter or not?

Why would I pull over for a funeral procession? The procession shouldn't be going fast enough to pass me.

Do you bring food to the home of a perfect stranger? We frequently bring meals to people from our family and our church who are suffering from an illness or a death in the family. Why would I expect a perfect stranger to bring me food?

No one here accused you or anyone else of being "hayseed rubes". I raise my children to open doors for people, let ladies on the elevator first, address them respectfully. What makes you so special because you do that?

Where in the world do you get the idea that fire fighter funeral (or any other funeral for that matter) "mortifies" me? What mortifies me is that some people are so self-centered that you think every single person's life should stop when a fire fighter dies.

And BTW, you can start today and you will most likely never catch me in the number of fire and police funerals I have attended.


Gee George, I don't know...maybe because that's how folks are raised down here...you can tell the locals, because they are the ones who stop their cars and remove their hats, etc. Maybe it's because I'm from a place where not too many people are strangers to each other. And I never said having good manners make me special, just that it's the right thing to do. I do know when I go to NJ to visit my in-laws and I say "thank you" and "please" at a store or restraunt I'm looked at like I have worms crawling out my ears. I guess we simply hail from different cultures. And as far as "catching" you in the number of fire and police funerals...I hope to God I would never have to attend another, and would never consider that something to brag about...and you say what I said was absurd?

[KnightnPBIArmor]

I don't have to know anything about her. I was not the moron playing games with a $500,000 piece of emergency equipment.

And neither was I...I was a witness and was riding in a staff vehicle myself. And if it had been a law enforcement procession you can bet there would have been more than blocking to keep her from cutting into the procession...one of the escorts would have stopped her and ticketed her for Contempt of Cop, Misdemeanor Pissing off the Police, and a whole wastebasketful of traffic violations, and I dare you to tell me otherwise.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

I do know when I go to NJ to visit my in-laws and I say "thank you" and "please" at a store or restraunt I'm looked at like I have worms crawling out my ears.

Absolute BS.

You didn't answer one of my questions.

I was not bragging about the number of LODD funerals I have attended. I was pointing out that I do not need a lecture from a snot nose with a convoluted superiority complex.

[ChiefKN]

Gee I do know when I go to NJ to visit my in-laws and I say "thank you" and "please" at a store or restraunt I'm looked at like I have worms crawling out my ears. I guess we simply hail from different cultures.

No need to slam the entire state. NJ is a diverse state with some very nice parts and people.

Sheesh

Perhaps the reaction was because of your corncob pipe, overalls, or the lack of shoes?

[KnightnPBIArmor]

Absolute BS.

You didn't answer one of my questions.

I was not bragging about the number of LODD funerals I have attended. I was pointing out that I do not need a lecture from a snot nose with a convoluted superiority complex.

No, you consider it BS because it was a different point of view from yours is all. And I find it laughable and ironic that you of all people would accuse someone else of having a superiority complex :rolleyes:

[KnightnPBIArmor]

No need to slam the entire state. NJ is a diverse state with some very nice parts and people.

Sheesh

Perhaps the reaction was because of your corncob pipe, overalls, or the lack of shoes?

Sorry if you took it that way Chief..as a matter of fact the county my wife is from is very nice as you said. Merely basing it experience though. But I do apologize...and btw, your sterotype applies more to the northern part of Georgia..we wear Dickies and shrimper's boots down here, and I dip, not smoke.

[Mzanghetti]

Why in the world would you expect someone to "honor" someone that they don't know? Fire fighter or not?. . .

There is a poem by John Donne:

"Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee. For no man is an island, separate and apart by himself."

That question was answered many, many years ago.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

There is a poem by John Donne:

"Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee. For no man is an island, separate and apart by himself."

That question was answered many, many years ago.

So......because I will die someday, I should honor every other person who dies?

Wow. Profound. :rolleyes:

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

No, you consider it BS because it was a different point of view from yours is all. And I find it laughable and ironic that you of all people would accuse someone else of having a superiority complex :rolleyes:

It's BS because you are generalizing that people in NJ don't have manners. That is what is BS. I don't care if you have a different point of view than mine at all.

I have a superiority complex because I am always right. Not because I think I am taking some moral high ground because I pull over for funerals.

[NCalElias]

So......because I will die someday, I should honor every other person who dies?

Wow. Profound.

Captain Vance Tomaselli gave his life in the line of duty to protect the community that he had served for decades. He was certainly aware of the risks associated with firefighting, and nonetheless he accepted those risks that he would benefit his fellow man. It's not that much to ask a token of gratitude and respect for a man such as Captain Tomaselli, and I'd wager that the petty remarks of some hack journalist are hardly representative of public opinion. It is not because everyone in that community will eventually die that Captain Tomaselli deserves respect, but rather because Captain Tomaselli gave his life knowing that it may save another's.

[Mzanghetti]

Captain Vance Tomaselli gave his life in the line of duty to protect the community that he had served for decades. He was certainly aware of the risks associated with firefighting, and nonetheless he accepted those risks that he would benefit his fellow man. It's not that much to ask a token of gratitude and respect for a man such as Captain Tomaselli, and I'd wager that the petty remarks of some hack journalist are hardly representative of public opinion. <b>It is not because everyone in that community will eventually die that Captain Tomaselli deserves respect, but rather because Captain Tomaselli gave his life knowing that it may save another's.</b>

There is an additional piece to what NCAL has said, that an individual such as Capt Tomaselli has passed away in the line of duty was effected all of us because his example on a daily basis is no longer here and it is up to all of us to carry on, hopefully better people for having his example but the world is worse off for his passing. His passing has effected many people and we can't really know how many. That quote has very little to nothing to do with your ham handed dismissal of classic poetry as just a simple recognition that all of will die eventually.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Captain Vance Tomaselli gave his life in the line of duty to protect the community that he had served for decades. He was certainly aware of the risks associated with firefighting, and nonetheless he accepted those risks that he would benefit his fellow man. It's not that much to ask a token of gratitude and respect for a man such as Captain Tomaselli, and I'd wager that the petty remarks of some hack journalist are hardly representative of public opinion. It is not because everyone in that community will eventually die that Captain Tomaselli deserves respect, but rather because Captain Tomaselli gave his life knowing that it may save another's.

I'm pretty sure of two things.

1. I never said anything disrespectful about Capt. Tomaselli.
2. The conversation has evolved into a much more general perspective.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

There is an additional piece to what NCAL has said, that an individual such as Capt Tomaselli has passed away in the line of duty was effected all of us because his example on a daily basis is no longer here and it is up to all of us to carry on, hopefully better people for having his example but the world is worse off for his passing. His passing has effected many people and we can't really know how many. That quote has very little to nothing to do with your ham handed dismissal of classic poetry as just a simple recognition that all of will die eventually.

Trust me, I recognize the beautiful prose. I guess I was trying to be nice and not point out that it didn't have a God-blessed thing to do with anything we were discussing. But you made me say it.

[DennisTheMenace]

Can you cite such a law?
No need to redo the work of others, http://www.cga.ct.gov/2004/rpt/2004-R-0303.htm

Virginia. The law gives a funeral procession a general right-of-way on any street through which it passes if it is traveling under a police or sheriff’s escort. It is not explicit with respect to the issue of traffic signals or signs. It authorizes localities to provide police escort service and impose reasonable fees to defray costs. No vehicle may join, pass through, or interfere with the funeral procession (Va. Code Ann. § 46. 2-828).
Delaware. The law prohibits any vehicle not part of a funeral procession from driving between or interfering with a funeral procession. All vehicles in a funeral procession must be as closely-spaced as safely possible, and must have headlights and taillights lit. Vehicles in a funeral procession must exercise due caution and yield the right-of-way to emergency vehicles or when directed by a police officer (Del. Code Ann. §§ 7101-7103).

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

No need to redo the work of others, http://www.cga.ct.gov/2004/rpt/2004-R-0303.htm

Thank you. It seems that there are more states w/o those laws. Interesting reading.

[Mzanghetti]

. . . . <b>Why in the world would you expect someone to "honor" someone that they don't know? Fire fighter or not?. . . .</b>
Trust me, I recognize the beautiful prose. I guess I was trying to be nice and not point out that <b>it didn't have a God-blessed thing to do with anything we were discussing. But you made me say it.</b>


I have outlined in bold were you brought the subject up yourself! BTW, it is poetry and not prose.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

I have outlined in bold were you brought the subject up yourself! BTW, it is poetry and not prose.

It is apparent that you are far too deep and intellectual for me to understand what you are saying.

[nyckftbl]

I have a serious question, and Im sorry if this is a bit of a hijack. But why is it ok to use warning lights and take part in a huge procession, but some of us on here get attacked for defending the use of lights and sirens responding to relocation? Of course, honoring a deceased member is very important, but is it not also important to protect an area that now has zero fire coverage? I guess people only drive like idiots (firemen and civilians alike) when we turn on the lights for a response or relocation, but not for a funeral procession?

[nyckftbl]

P.S. Anyone else find it ironic that everyone expects the general public to stop what they are doing to honor someone they have never met, maybe not even living in the same town/city/state, but yet we still have idiots on this website that look to condemn the dead fireman/FD before their body is even cold, or to throw a brother in jail and hide the key before theyve even been to court?

Some people like to preach brotherhood only when its good for them.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

P.S. Anyone else find it ironic that everyone expects the general public to stop what they are doing to honor someone they have never met, maybe not even living in the same town/city/state, but yet we still have idiots on this website that look to condemn the dead fireman/FD before their body is even cold, or to throw a brother in jail and hide the key before theyve even been to court?

Some people like to preach brotherhood only when its good for them.

"Everyone" doesn't expect this. But I get your point.

[nyckftbl]

"Everyone" doesn't expect this. But I get your point.

Good to have you back, you PIA. :D

[KnightnPBIArmor]

It's BS because you are generalizing that people in NJ don't have manners. That is what is BS. I don't care if you have a different point of view than mine at all.

I have a superiority complex because I am always right. Not because I think I am taking some moral high ground because I pull over for funerals.

Since I never meant to imply that folks in NJ don't have good manners, let's try this again:

1. In the part of Georgia I am from it is customary to pull over for a passing funeral. Most children born prior to 1990's coming up were taught to say Yes m'am, no m'am, please, thank you, etc...this is where the expression "Southern Hospitality" comes from.

2. In NJ it apparently is not customary to pull over for a passing funeral. Based on information given to me by my wife, children from NJ who receive proper parental guidance are taught good manners, but the pleases, thank you's and yes m'ams/sirs etc are not necessarily expected.

There is that better? Will that help unknot your Chief Wiggum underrroos?

And honestly, if i had anything against NJ do you really think I would have married someone from there, had the cermony there, and go there on vacation every year?

BTW, I'm glad your fortunate enough to always be right. I myself prefer to be wrong every once in a while...that's makes it easier to tell if your learning or not.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Since I never meant to imply that folks in NJ don't have good manners, let's try this again:

1. In the part of Georgia I am from it is customary to pull over for a passing funeral. Most children born prior to 1990's coming up were taught to say Yes m'am, no m'am, please, thank you, etc...this is where the expression "Southern Hospitality" comes from.

2. In NJ it apparently is not customary to pull over for a passing funeral. Based on information given to me by my wife, children from NJ who receive proper parental guidance are taught good manners, but the pleases, thank you's and yes m'ams/sirs etc are not necessarily expected.

There is that better? Will that help unknot your Chief Wiggum underrroos?

And honestly, if i had anything against NJ do you really think I would have married someone from there, had the cermony there, and go there on vacation every year?

BTW, I'm glad your fortunate enough to always be right. I myself prefer to be wrong every once in a while...that's makes it easier to tell if your learning or not.

Yeah, I can see how I could have misunderstood this comment:

I do know when I go to NJ to visit my in-laws and I say "thank you" and "please" at a store or restraunt I'm looked at like I have worms crawling out my ears.

How could I have thought that you were "implying" anything negative about NJ?

As a Jersey guy, I would think that your wife would have had better taste in men.

[KnightnPBIArmor]

Yeah, I can see how I could have misunderstood this comment:



How could I have thought that you were "implying" anything negative about NJ? Liar.

As a Jersey guy, I would think that your wife would have had better taste in men.

Believe what you want to believe George. And this will be the last you will hear from me on the subject; it's one thing to take shots at each other, but when you start taking shots at spouses the fun and games are over and it's time to let it go.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Believe what you want to believe George. And this will be the last you will hear from me on the subject; it's one thing to take shots at each other, but when you start taking shots at spouses the fun and games are over and it's time to let it go.

If you think that was a shot at your wife, you are dillusional.

[BLSboy]

People from Jersey ARE asssholes!
I know.
I are one.

[scfire86]

Believe what you want to believe George. And this will be the last you will hear from me on the subject; it's one thing to take shots at each other, but when you start taking shots at spouses the fun and games are over and it's time to let it go.
George typically makes personal attacks when someone gets the better part of him in a debate.

Just smile and know he has no point.

[ChiefKN]

2. In NJ it apparently is not customary to pull over for a passing funeral. Based on information given to me by my wife, children from NJ who receive proper parental guidance are taught good manners, but the pleases, thank you's and yes m'ams/sirs etc are not necessarily expected.

I hate to rant, but I will... People all over the country love to pick on NJ, and that's fine. I do it myself. The truth however, is that most of NJ is a great place to live and the people are generally nice and accepting of others. Jokes are fine, but when it's not a joke and the stereo type is used to advance an argument about the character of the people, it's not appreciated.

Please stop lumping or stereo typing all of the people from NJ in this way? I was absolutely taught the thank you's, etc of good manners. I'm sure there are rough parts of NJ where perhaps that isn't the case, but it's not all of the state.

To be honest, I have no idea how this is even germane to the discussion at hand???

As for pulling over for a passing funeral... I can't remember the last time it happened, and i'm sure if it happens in Essex County or Sussex County the reaction would be different. An area separated by just 30 miles is dramatically different in landscape and in the type of people you will meet.

I'm sure that some will and some won't pull over, as is the case where you live. Let's be real, this country is much more diverse and "smaller" then ever before. To state with any certainty how the people in your town will react is nothing more than a guess.

I know you're a good guy, i've read your posts. So, I'm guessing you are trying to make a point and don't mean to impugn the entire state. However, you did!

Rant complete, thanks for getting this far.

[scfire86]

Please stop lumping or stereo tying all of the people from NJ in this way? I was absolutely taught the thank you's, etc of good manners. I'm sure there are rough parts of NJ where perhaps that isn't the case, but it's not all of the state.


You mean the way Norm did here did with CA? (http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=97886)

[JHR1985]

Some people like to preach brotherhood only when its good for them.


Well, its because they are "safe on here."

For example, if I insulted ChicagoFF by saying all Chicago Firefighters are fat, lazy, and dont know their butt from a hose on the ground, what is he going to do?

Send me a hateful message?

If I insult you and the FDNY by saying that your nothing but Yankee scum... what are you going to do? Block my messages?

The people on here are not afraid to say anything because their is no backlash. What are you going to do? Type a message they arent going to read... or make Gonzo's mustache twitch in anger?

If ChicagoFF insults the department I work for or Texas... what am I going to do, Fly up there and whoop his ass?

First off, my skinny ass would be outmatched and secondly, hell yeah I would. No one insults Texas and gets away with it.:eek:

Now going off topic, I need to fly up to New York and get FFFRED to pay me 5 bucks.

[JHR1985]

George typically makes personal attacks when someone gets the better part of him in a debate.

Just smile and know he has no point


That made me smile.

[KnightnPBIArmor]

So, I'm guessing you are trying to make a point and don't mean to impugn the entire state. However, you did!

.

Chief, I told George I was done with this, but I will come back to answer you. You are right on the money: I was trying to make a point and it came out the wrong way. I have tried to explain that to George and he calls me a liar. And as I said to him, if I had anything against NJ, I wouldn't have married the beautiful Jersey Girl that is my wife. I love my in-laws and the friends of the family I have met thus far. I apologize for any insult. George will probably still call me a liar, but oh well.

You mentioned funerals in Essex and Sussex..my wife is from Sussex County, and if I recall when we had her grandmother's funeral there wasn't even a procession to the cemetary, after the service at the mortuary everyone made their own way to the cemetary for the graveside service.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Chief, I told George I was done with this, but I will come back to answer you. You are right on the money: I was trying to make a point and it came out the wrong way. I have tried to explain that to George and he calls me a liar. And as I said to him, if I had anything against NJ, I wouldn't have married the beautiful Jersey Girl that is my wife. I love my in-laws and the friends of the family I have met thus far. I apologize for any insult. George will probably still call me a liar, but oh well.

You mentioned funerals in Essex and Sussex..my wife is from Sussex County, and if I recall when we had her grandmother's funeral there wasn't even a procession to the cemetary, after the service at the mortuary everyone made their own way to the cemetary for the graveside service.

I edited the Liar comment out solely because your wife is a Jersey girl

[ChiefKN]

You mean the way Norm did here did with CA? (http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=97886)

Wow...a little hung up on him huh?

I'm not defending him, he doesn't need my help. Merely speaking up about my neighborhood.

[CaptainGonzo]

If the mutt that wrote the letter to the paper were to read this thread, he'd be smiling, knowing that he set us off against one another... and he would still consider us to be a**holes... and we are making ourselves look like a**holes, too... :rolleyes: :mad:

Please let it go. You want to vent anger... vent it at the mutt from Beaumont, not towards your brothers and sisters, wives, girlfriends, boyfriends, lovers and significant others.

[MikeWard]

If the mutt that wrote the letter to the paper were to read this thread, he'd be smiling, knowing that he set us off against one another... and he would still consider us to be a**holes... and we are making ourselves look like a**holes, too... :rolleyes: :mad:

Please let it go. You want to vent anger... vent it at the mutt from Beaumont, not towards your brothers and sisters, wives, girlfriends, boyfriends, lovers and significant others.
Amen! I agree with Gonzo's observation.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Hey Gonz, not for nothin', but my comments were clearly NOT directed at his wife. And calling her a Jersey Girl is definitely the highest form pf praise (at least from where I sit).

[RFD1067]

George typically makes personal attacks when someone gets the better part of him in a debate.

Just smile and know he has no point.

He is a bit of a hypocrite to. It's ok to generalize californian's but by god don't generalize people from New Jersey.

[egon911]

WTH!!! how many people here are from freakin Sussex!? I shaved my mullet and left my IROC at the border back in 91', never thought I'd find so many refrences to the fatherland here! Small, small planet eh?

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

He is a bit of a hypocrite to. It's ok to generalize californian's but by god don't generalize people from New Jersey.

No hypocrite here, Scooter. Those two subjects are not even remotely close to being the same thing. And I am not going to hijack this thread by trying to explain the difference to you.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

WTH!!! how many people here are from freakin Sussex!? I shaved my mullet and left my IROC at the border back in 91', never thought I'd find so many refrences to the fatherland here! Small, small planet eh?

If memory seerves me correctly, Sussex wasn't big mullet country. Since I was born and raised in Morris, we had an occassional incursion. Also, I think that Sussex was more truck country with the IROC being king in Essex, Morris and Union.

[KnightnPBIArmor]

Also, I think that Sussex was more truck country with the IROC being king in Essex, Morris and Union.

I do agree with you on this one George, because it's hard to pull a horse trailer with an IROC ;)

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

He is a bit of a hypocrite to. It's ok to generalize californian's but by god don't generalize people from New Jersey.

One more thing. Try searching for a thread titles "Only in NJ". Note who started it. Note who posted most of the stuff. Note that the stuff is a negative reflection on NJ.

You want to say all NJ politicians are crooks, I'm right there with you. You want to compare NJ people with the Sopranos, go for it, as most people in NJ at least know people who are exactly like them.

But to characterize all NJ residents as rude, impolite and inconsiderate? You would be wrong. Dead wrong.

So you see, absolutley no hypocrisy here, scooter.

[egon911]

Having spent most of my formative years in Sussex, I seem to recall a pretty fair number of IROC's and 5pointOHS in the parking lot at school( although many of them were parked under lifted pickups) and the mullet/flat top fade was about 1to1 as well. The 80's were hard on Sussex. I do have to agree on the people though, I had free reign of pretty much the whole borough since I was about 6 ( poor richards ruled!) Sorry for the total hijack, maybe I should start a Sussex county thread!

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

maybe I should start a Sussex county thread!

Please don't.

[RFD1067]

One more thing. Try searching for a thread titles "Only in NJ". Note who started it. Note who posted most of the stuff. Note that the stuff is a negative reflection on NJ.

You want to say all NJ politicians are crooks, I'm right there with you. You want to compare NJ people with the Sopranos, go for it, as most people in NJ at least know people who are exactly like them.

But to characterize all NJ residents as rude, impolite and inconsiderate? You would be wrong. Dead wrong.

So you see, absolutley no hypocrisy here, scooter.

Kind of how I felt about characterizing all Californian's as liberals like the People from Berkeley.

[ffscm72]

. . . Oh Mr. Johnson
.

I LOVE IT!!...LMAO

[hatchmaster]

Well I guess they couldn't stand our replies, they shut down the link. Well at least I was able to get my .02 in.

[MUNCY9]

Wasnt this thread supposed to be about the jack *ss from Beaumont? I have a saying....it is what it is! We cant change the way people feel. All we can do is to continue to honor OUR fallen brothers. Nothing more, nothing less.