Chief Lapore's two year college degree versus becoming a paramedic

[dmfireschool]

Questions for Chief Lapore and your two year college degree recommendation.

Recently a fire applicant posting information that is testing specifically for the state of Ohio. The advice you give them is to get a two-year degree in fire science, become an EMT and, of course, one the most important requirements you recommended to this person for becoming a firefighter in Ohio is to learn a trade. Not once do you mention becoming a paramedic in your two year plan.

This person listens to your advice and finds out that after investing two or three years of their time in getting a two year college degree and an EMT certificate that they can't take 80- 90% of the exams not only in Ohio many states in this midwest,eastern and many other parts of the country


80-90% of the exams given in Ohio require you to be a paramedic or enrolled in paramedic school to even take the test for full time departments. We do realize some major cities do not require you to be paramedic to be hired so there is no need to post those jobs as an example. However, that will be changing in the next 5-10 years. The majority of the hiring of firefighters in this country is done by departments of 100 firefighters or less. These departments want people who are paramedics.

Even if a city does not have a requirement of being a paramedic, with the one in three, one in five or one in ten civil service rules that many municipalities have, if you are just an EMT or have a two year degree the city can pass you over and choose someone else down the list who is a paramedic. They don't have to give a reason but their reason would be a very sound one, that the candidate farther down the list is better qualified by being a paramedic than someone who is a EMT or has a two year degree. This happens many, many times. A city is not going to hire you if you are just an EMT and then send you to school for a year to become a paramedic and have to pay overtime for someone to fill your slot when you are working and attending paramedic school. Cities want people that can be hired immediately.

When firehouse.com first started their entry-level site, they choose the following individuals to write articles for them ~ Capt. Bob Smith, Chief Brent Collins and Chief Steve Prziborowski. These individuals were selected because of their expertise in preparing fire applicants and pointing them in the right direction to become a firefighter across the country. All three of us are in agreement - becoming a paramedic will open many more doors to becoming a firefighter than a two year collge degree or just being an EMT.

Firehouse.com is read by many fire applicants across the country and many of them respect your advice. Much of the information in your two year plan is very good advice. I do not agree with your advice about having fire applicants get their two-year degree before becoming a paramedic for taking exams in the Midwest and eastern parts of this country. It will not get these fire applicants jobs! The only way to get your foot in the door is being a paramedic in this part of the country, as well as many other parts of the United States.

I would suggest in the future that you give your advice specific to the area they are testing (for example, the individual who posted about information concerning Ohio jobs) instead of giving your two blanket postings (your two year plan and the importance of education) to everyone who reads this forum and other forums you contribute to. Your two-year plan might work for some areas of the country but it will not work for the majority of fire applicants in Ohio and other Midwest and eastern states of the country. You are sending candidates down the WRONG path for jobs in this area of the country.

Final thought – no one is questioning the integrity of Chief Lepore. His reputation in the fire service as a fire officer is impeccable. We just have a different opinion on what is the best path and will open the most doors to becoming a firefighter in different areas of the country.

For the fire applicants out there, it is your choice as to what advice to take to help you in your pursuit of becoming a firefighter. If you feel that a two-year degree and an EMT certification will open more doors to get you hired, we wish you the best of luck. It's an important career choice to make; make sure you make the right one!

Brent Collins
Assistant Chief, Cleveland Fire Department
firehouse.com entry-level author http://cms.firehouse.com/content/con.../bio.jsp?id=17
President, www.FirePrep.com

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[BCLepore]

Brent,
First of posting this in three separate places seems a little ridiculous to me. I will address your statements one at a time.

Brent wrote:
80-90% of the exams given in Ohio require you to be a paramedic or enrolled in paramedic school to even take the test for full time departments.

Good information. Being a Paramedic in the state of Ohio obviously sounds like it may be nearly a prerequisite to getting hired in the fire service. For the record, the state of Ohio is a pretty small representation of paid firefighters across the country. This is not meant to demean or minimize the brothers and sisters in Ohio, rather making a comparison to the rest of the country.

Brent wrote:
A city is not going to hire you if you are just an EMT and then send you to school for a year to become a paramedic and have to pay overtime for someone to fill your slot when you are working and attending paramedic school.

This may apply in your area; however, in mine we send firefighters to paramedic school on a routing basis (remember I am the BC in charge of the EMS Division). The same applies for virtually ALL of the big departments in my region. For the record, it costs about 85K to make a firefighter into a paramedic.

Brent wrote:
All three of us are in agreement - becoming a paramedic will open many more doors to becoming a firefighter than a two year college degree or just being an EMT.

Steve P and Bob live within 30 miles of each other in northern California. There is definitely a strong need for PM’s in their area as there is in your’s.

Brent wrote:
We do realize some major cities do not require you to be paramedic to be hired so there is no need to post those jobs as an example. However, that will be changing in the next 5-10 years.

Don’t bet on it.

Brent wrote:
Much of the information in your two year plan is very good advice. I do not agree with your advice about having fire applicants get their two-year degree before becoming a paramedic for taking exams in the Midwest and eastern parts of this country. It will not get these fire applicants jobs!

Thank you. Again, in your region being a paramedic will enhance your chances. Just so I am clear I advocate a 4 year degree, especially for the younger generation. Most candidates are not going to get hired at 19 or 20. I encourage the candidates to use this time to go to school and get a degree. Get a job in construction to help pay for school. This is the best use of their time. Down the road when it comes to promotion a four year degree will absolutely help them in the promotional process.

Brent wrote:
The majority of the hiring of firefighters in this country is done by departments of 100 firefighters or less.

I absolutely disagree. Correct me if I am wrong, but there are far more BLS engines and trucks in the country than ALS. While smaller departments may test more frequently, Chicago, LA City, Philadelphia, Boston, FDNY, LA CO hire in huge blocks. In other words I disagree with your statement that smaller departments hiring in ones and twos do the bulk of the hiring.

In closing, I would like to reiterate that becoming a paramedic will definitely help you get hired. (In some parts of the country it is more desireable than others). I submit that there are plenty of jobs out there for you non-medics.

Paul Lepore
Battlaion Chief
www.aspiringfirefighters.com

[BLSboy]

Gentlemen, as a Paramedic student, and an aspiring Career FF, I would like to weigh in.

Many people are now regarding Paramedic as "just another stepping stone" to becoming a Career Firefighter. That leads to a downturn in pt care. If you put someone in a position where they are responsible for invasive pt procedures, and they dont want to be there, it is not good for anyone!
You can teach a monkey to pass Medic, with they way it is now, and you can teach said monkey to pass they tests, but when it comes down to it, they just cant handle the real calls.

Would you make a cop be a fireman? A NYC Paramedic a Firefighter?

EMS is EMS. Fire is Fire. Police is Police.
We need to stop this cross training everyone, it is dumbing down the mission.

[BCLepore]

BLS Boy,
You are way off the mark. I started as a single function paramedic for one of the largest fire departments in California. I quickly learned that there were no opportunities to promote as a single role paramedic.

I have been certified for 22 years. I believe in fire based EMS. Thirty years is a long time to stick needles in people. The fire service gives you the ability to promote out of the paramedic program.

You can teach a monkey to pass medic school? You have to be kidding me. You have a lot to learn.

[jasper45]

We need to stop this cross training everyone, it is dumbing down the mission.



And again, at twenty years old you've gained all of this experience to make a statement like this. :rolleyes:


In case you missed my other posts about the hiring of paramedics on the job up here, it's considered a promotional position over firefighter.

All that experience, and an attitude to go with it, and you're not even on the job yet-you'll fit in real good! :rolleyes:

[BLSboy]

And again, at twenty years old you've gained all of this experience to make a statement like this. :rolleyes:


In case you missed my other posts about the hiring of paramedics on the job up here, it's considered a promotional position over firefighter.

All that experience, and an attitude to go with it, and you're not even on the job yet-you'll fit in real good! :rolleyes:

Jasper;

It was NOT directed to you, OR your dept.

It was directed at the FDs that FORCE their Firefighters to go through Medic, whether they want to or not. The local schools know that many of these FFs don't want to be there, and they will not be focusing as hard as say, the person who paid their own way through, and WANTS to be a Medic.

Down here, having Medic gets you hired faster. As a consequence of that, there are some really challenged Medics being produced.
I am not even going into the problems with an all ALS system, where the call volume is not as active, with skill retention. Working in the ED, I saw the aftermath of some Medics handiwork.

And yes, Jasper, my experience has brought me to different states, with distinctly different EMS systems. They both have their high and low points, but while one offers high quality ALS care, it takes some time for it to arrive, while the other offers quick ALS, but not of very high quality.

Hmmm

[Geinandputitout]

Gentlemen, as a Paramedic student, and an aspiring Career FF, I would like to weigh in.

Many people are now regarding Paramedic as "just another stepping stone" to becoming a Career Firefighter. That leads to a downturn in pt care. If you put someone in a position where they are responsible for invasive pt procedures, and they dont want to be there, it is not good for anyone!
You can teach a monkey to pass Medic, with they way it is now, and you can teach said monkey to pass they tests, but when it comes down to it, they just cant handle the real calls.

Would you make a cop be a fireman? A NYC Paramedic a Firefighter?

EMS is EMS. Fire is Fire. Police is Police.
We need to stop this cross training everyone, it is dumbing down the mission.


I think you spent too much time hanging around with a grizzled old paramedic that for one reason or another could not get through a Fire Department entrance exam. Unfortunately he has tainted your thinking.

You spout off all of your expertise all over the forums, but comments indicate that you do not have much systems experience.


EMS is not just EMS. Fire is not just Fire. Police is not just Police.

The ALS Fire Fighter job is not overwhelming. I've done it for 10 years in transport and non-transport settings. From my experience, the people that complain about it being hard don't have the raw mental horsepower to do the job. I feel bad for them, that does not mean I am willing to change so they can remain employed.

[BLSboy]

The ALS Fire Fighter job is not overwhelming. I've done it for 10 years in transport and non-transport settings. From my experience, the people that complain about it being hard don't have the raw mental horsepower to do the job. I feel bad for them, that does not mean I am willing to change so they can remain employed.

Then why would all be forced to do it?
I have NOTHING at all against FireMedics. It is when people are FORCED to become Medics, that I have a problem.

[dmfireschool]

Paul lapore's response to our first posting on this topic
First, of posting this in three separate places seems a little ridiculous to me.

The reason for three separate postings is that we want candidates across the country to fully realize what represents their best opportunity to become a firefighter – someone who has a two or four- year college degree or someone who becomes a paramedic. You have your blanket two-year plan all over the entry-level forum boards with no recommendation of being a paramedic and we find that extremely ridiculous.



Brent wrote, “A city is not going to hire you if you are just an EMT and then send you to school for a year and have to pay overtime for someone to fill your slot while you working or attending a paramedic school.”



Your reply, “This may apply in your area; however, in mine we send firefighters to paramedic school on a rotating basis. This applies virtually to all big departments in my region. For the record, it costs about $85,000 to make a firefighter into a paramedic.”



Our reply: This is exactly what we are talking about. You state in YOUR area and the big departments. Cities with 100 firefighters or less across this country want individuals who are paramedic-ready to eliminate costs associated with training someone to become a paramedic. With a majority of these departments doing the hiring, they do not have the financial resources to spend that kind of money like large departments do.



You also state that Steve P. and Bob live within 30 miles of each other in northern California. There is definitely a strong need for paramedics in their area as there is in yours (Ohio).



Our posting ALSO emphasized that areas in the Midwest, northern and eastern parts of this country are hiring paramedics at a dramatically increasing rate. Nowhere did I emphasize that it was just MY area only or Steve Prziborowski’s and Capt Bob’s area. I used Ohio as an example of an area that is requiring you to be a paramedic and that requirement is growing across the country. Don’t pick and choose what statements fit your paramedic spin reply.


Again, three main firehouse.com’s entry-level authors are in agreement – for an individual looking to gain a firefighter job ANYWHERE in the country, we recommend that you get a paramedic certification first before a two or four -year college degree. Between the three of us, our newsletters or newsletters we write for go out to over 75,000 subscribers. Don’t you think that can gives us a pulse of what is going on in the country and not just our areas? Think about that.



Brent wrote, “The majority of hiring of firefighters in the country is done by departments with 100 firefighters or less.” Your reply back, “I absolutely disagree. Correct me if I’m wrong. While smaller departments may test frequently, Chicago, LA City, Philadelphia, Boston, New York, LA County hire in huge blocks. In other words, I disagree with your statement that smaller departments hiring in 1s and 2s do the bulk of the hiring.”



We stated that the majority of firefighters hired in this country are by departments of 100 firefighters or less. You seem to disagree with this statement. Again, we will use Ohio as an example. There are over 300 full-time departments with fewer than 100 firefighters. If each department hires a minimum of one (most hiring is in the 1-4 range), that means 300 firefighters just in the state of Ohio alone would be hired in a two–three year period. More likely about 500-700 firefighters would be hired in that timeframe



The city of Columbus gives a test every five years and plans on hiring 100-125 firefighters. My department, the Cleveland Fire Department, held its last exam in 1998. We actually laid off 150 firefighters during this timeframe. The city of Toledo is giving their first exam in 6 years and plans on hiring 50-75 firefighters. The City of Akron just gave their first exam in six years and plan on hiring 50-75. These numbers do not compare with the number of firefighters hired by departments with 100 firefighter and less during that timeframe. Just so you don’t reply back, we are using only Ohio as an example. You mentioned Chicago – the previous Chicago exam was given in 1995 – a 12-year period in between exams! Chicago may hire 300-400 firefighters off this eligibility list; in the meantime, there are over 400 full-time departments in Illinois with 100 firefighters or less. With them testing every two–three years and hiring even just one firefighter and not the more likely average of two to three per department, they are hiring at least 400 firefighters in these small departments EVERY TWO-THREE YEARS. During that 12-year period there would have been in the low range of 1600 firefighters hired in the state of Illinois during that same period. You do the math. Which departments are doing the most hiring ~ the bigger ones or the ones with 100 firefighters and less? For the record, there are some states in which the major departments test more frequently and might not have as many smaller departments but the number is small and there is no need to make your spin reply with those small examples. Look at the number of fulltime departments in Texas and Florida and see what size departments are doing the most hiring. We can point to many states with 100 and less fulltime firefighters and do the same numbers.



Many states have between 200-1000 fulltime departments. Again, you do the math. Add 1-2 firefighters hired as a minimum for each department every three years and you have anywhere from 500-2000 firefighters hired in a 2-3 year period. You don’t have to get us the numbers hired by LA City and LA County. Those are two of the biggest departments in the country and they are in YOUR area. We do realize that they hire hundreds of firefighters in YOUR area. There are very few departments in the country that size that are so close to each other and hire that many firefighters. We are talking about the country as a whole not just your area.



Look at the number of exam announcements on firehouse.com, firecareers.com or firejobs.com. 90% of those exams are for departments that employ 100 firefighters or less.



To verify our statement that more doors will be open and more fire applicants will get jobs by becoming a paramedic instead of having a two year or four-degree we contacted www.firejobs.com and asked them their opinion. They specifically stated to us that the majority of fire jobs their service posts are requiring individuals to be paramedics or enrolled in paramedic school or giving the highest number of extra points on exams for this certification. Firejobs.com currently posts 300 jobs a month, so they are extremely knowledgeable in this area.



Extra Points on Exams: Even if there is not a requirement to be a paramedic to take an exam, you will find that many of exams offer extra points for being a paramedic. A small percentage offer extra points for having a college degree and the points do not compare to the extra points given for being a paramedic. I’m sure there are some departments you could name where the paramedic and college points are equal; again, that is a small percentage. A majority of departments give the highest number of extra credit points for paramedic and military service. Have a two year or four college degree does not equate to many extra credit points, if any.



You state in closing, “I would like to reiterate that becoming a paramedic would definitely help you get hired in some parts of the country more than others.” That is our question to you – why do you continually post your blanket two-year plan that is read by hundreds if not thousands of fire applicants across this country and do not include an individual becoming a paramedic?



You certainty would not continually post your blanket two year plan read by thousands across this country if you didn’t believe that a two or four-degree degree will open more doors than being a paramedic for the country as a whole. For a majority of this country, your two-year plan with no recommendation of becoming a paramedic does a fire applicant no good and will continue to do them no good in the years to come.


Brent Collins
Assistant Chief, Cleveland Fire Department
firehouse.com entry-level author http://cms.firehouse.com/content/con.../bio.jsp?id=17
President, www.FirePrep.com

[BCLepore]

Brent,
I am tired of playing games with you. You see it your way and I see it mine. I find it ironic that the departments that support my case are ones that you say don’t count (La County, LA City and Chicago). Your numbers are skewed too. Chicago has a staffing of 4,000. In your estimation the department has only turned over 10% in 10 years. I highly doubt this is accurate.

Your spin on words continues. We both agree that there are more job postings for Paramedics. However, my contention was, and still remains, that there are plenty of jobs out there for non-medics. I am particularly referring to those men and women who cannot leave their jobs because of a spouse, children and a mortgage payment.

Your blanket statement of become a paramedic is off base. I will repeat my earlier statement. There are plenty of jobs out there that are awarded to non-medics.

Am I correct in understanding that in your mind all someone needs to do is to become a paramedic? What about a basic fire academy? What are your feelings on fire science education and a degree?

To make my point clear, I believe there are things a candidate can do to get hired on the fire department that do not require a paramedic license. Moreover, I will tell you that it is my opinion that those who have a paramedic license INSTEAD of a basic fire academy fail out at a higher rate. You see, it’s not just getting the job that is important, it’s retaining it.

Your experience is based in Ohio. As I aid earlier, Ohio does not set any nationwide standards. Your department has not tested in 9 years. Unfortunately you have had to lay off 150 union brothers and sisters. Your experience in the testing arena is far different than mine. In the same time frame my department has hired hundreds of new firefighters, some were even paramedics.

You stated that paramedics would be given “extra” points. While this is true in some cases, in others it will cost the person a badge. This of course is with departments that do not have firefighter/paramedics. As a rule, candidates with a paramedic license will often be passed over because they will most likely leave to become a firefighter paramedic.

You do not put any value in a degree. Maybe in your neck of the woods a degree does not amount for much. For many years it didn’t in my area. I can tell you now that many Chief Officers in my region came on the job with a degree, are in the process of getting one, or have recently earned one.

I would like to remind you that I AM A PARAMEDIC. I run the EMS Division of the 5th largest fire department in the state of California. I recently attended a meeting in Washington DC for the 50 largest EMS providers in the country. Ironically, I sat next to a Deputy from one of your neighboring larger departments. I consider myself to be an EMS guy. I also consider myself to be someone who wants to see candidates hired and to be successful candidates. You and I see it differently.
Paul Lepore

[dmfireschool]

First, it's no game when the top three entry -evel authors for firehouse.com, whose newsletters go out to over 75,000 candidates across the country agree on the same path for candidates to take to get the job of a firefighter. You can be the BIG man on campus in YOUR area and direct candidates in the right direction in YOUR area. With firehouse.com's entry-level forum read by thousands across the country, we will continue to give direction to candidates everywhere in the country on what path will open the most doors to them becoming a firefighter. With that said, we can agree to disagree. But, in the future wherever you post your blanket two-year plan without any reference to becoming a paramedic, we will reply immediately with the same postings to give candidates a choice on what direction to take.


Brent Collins
Assistant Chief, Cleveland Fire Department
firehouse.com entry-level author http://cms.firehouse.com/content/con.../bio.jsp?id=17
www.FirePrep.com

[BCLepore]

Brent,
You failed to address the key issues in my post.

You have posted three different times that your propaganda goes out to 75,000 people. You seem very proud of that fact. Anyone can pay for advertising space on-line. I don't chose to do that.

These things do not make you an expert.

You don't see the value of education. I went back to school as a BC and got my degree. I would venture to guess that you do not have your degree.

You place a high degree of emphasis on a Paramedic License. I am a paramedic and run the EMS DIvision. While I don't place as high a level of importance in a PM license for entry-level candidates, I do believe that in some areas of the country it will absolutely get you hired (I have acknowledged this three times in response to your posts).

I posted information online long before I ever wrote books. I developed my products because I did not feel that what was being offered out there was of quality. Whether I sell another book or not is immaterial. I want to see good people get hired in the fire service. I will say it agian.....you and I see it differently.

Paul Lepore

[dmfireschool]

Make up your mind do you want continue this or our you done playing games as you call it with candidates career choices ??

[dmfireschool]

Paul wrote
You have posted three different times that your propaganda goes out to 75,000 people. You seem very proud of that fact. Anyone can pay for advertising space on-line. I don't chose to do that.

Our reply

We pay for ZERO space on line or advertising. ZERO !!! Show us where we are paying for advertising, any of us. Our propaganda (newsletter) as you call it goes out FREE to everyone who signs up for firehouse.com's entry level service. We all do it for FREE !! If I'm not mistaken aren't you part of that propaganda as a firehouse.com entry level author in the past ?? If it was propaganda why did you write for them ?? My newsletter, Capt. Bob's and Chief Steve goes out thousands of fire applicants across the country for FREE.

Paul wrote:

You don't see the value of education. I went back to school as a BC and got my degree. I would venture to guess that you do not have your degree.

Our reply

I do see the value of education. I also see the first thing you need do is get the job first and worry about a promotion later. If you take an exam with over 1000 people and all you have is a two year or four degree instead of a paramedic certification what good does it do. Get the job first !!! You went back and got your degree once you got the job first !!!! Once AGAIN you ventured wrong. I do have a degree. I went to college for two years and got on the Cleveland Fire dept. at age 20. I was the youngest Lt., Capt., Battalion Chief ( in charge of the fire academy) and Assistant Chief promoted in the history of the department. I also finished the rest of my college over a six year span. That includes teaching fire courses at a community college. We BOTH did the same thing. We got the JOB FIRST and then went back to college.


Paul wrote
You place a high degree of emphasis on a Paramedic License. I am a paramedic and run the EMS Division. While I don't place as high a level of importance in a PM license for entry-level candidates, I do believe that in some areas of the country it will absolutely get you hired.

Our reply

You don't get it. Most of your experience in what candidates need is based on YOUR area. Look at JUST about everything you refer too, its YOUR AREA !! Remember, before you spin something, we said just about everything.

All three of firehouse.com's entry level authors look at the WHOLE country and what will open the most doors to get someone hired. You want to be the BIG man on campus in YOUR area and you probably are so be it. Why don't you do this when you plaster your two year plan all over the entry level forums with your recommendation of "learning a trade" before becoming a paramedic. Change it to "Paul's two year plan to get hired in my area."

This has gone on long enough. If you have problem any more e-mail us or call us. We will no longer reply to you.

[DocVBFDE14]

Well, after reading all of this....

I am glad I went through the Open Competitive Civil Service exam from NYC.

Least there was not as much bickering over what you need. All you needed was your brain and endurance :cool:

[Jwarne2001]

Just so I'm clear here.....

One business, who utilizes a free internet bulletin board to promote itself, posted several threads in several different forums, specifically calling sh*t on a competitor (whose dept is certainly no slouch in the fire service) in an unprovoked manner....and in the process promoted their own business and own system.

Classy.

I think the point that we can take away from this thread, is that different departments have different hiring requirements and expectations of their candidates. It's up to the candidate to determine what is going to work for the dept they're trying to get hired on with.

[RFRDxplorer]

I'm gonna have to stick with the man from Cleveland on this one. BCLepore, while I am not taking anything away from your hiring expertise, you have absolutely no idea how things are done in Ohio.

It is EXTREMELY HARD to get hired full time on almost any department in Ohio without having a Medic card. Even the big cities that are hiring big classes with "no prior experience needed" cause they put you through the academy, are hiring tons of people with prior firefighting experience and certs and THEIR MEDIC CARD.

I read an article somewhere a few months back that showed the numbers of FR, EMT-B, EMT-I, and EMT-P by each state. If I am not mistaken, OH had the most medics of any state in the country.

Every department that I can think of around me that hires FT personnel requires you to have a medic card.

[BCLepore]

RFRD,
The message to you and the rest of the candidates is not to choose sides of who is right and who is wrong. Choose the best option for your situation. If I lived in Ohio I would be looking into Paramedic school. Again, Ohio represents a very small percentage of the country.

Jwarne2001,
You hit the nail right on the head. I couldn't have said it better myself.

For the record, I do not consider myself a big man on campus. That title is reserved for my wife, and then my daughter. If I am lucky, I am number three in my own house.

I will say it again for the fourth time. Being a paramedic may help you ger hired depending, on your area of the country. For those of you who cannot afford to take time off work and still desire a career in the fire service, there are plenty of firefighter /EMT jobs.

I do agree with Brent on the fact that this has gone on long enough. Nobody wins in a thread like this.

We have a difference of opinion.

Stay safe everyone,

Paul Lepore

[CALFFBOU]

For the record, I do not consider myself a big man on campus. That title is reserved for my wife, and then my daughter. If I am lucky, I am number three in my own house.

Paul Lepore

I laughed out loud! Thanks Paul.

[AZFF25]

I'm NOT a Medic and I was hired 4 years ago as a FF/EMT-B. You CAN be hired WITHOUT being a Medic....it's all about the INTERVIEW!