Cats in a hi-rise?

[JayLevitt]

Hi, all. Sorry if this is the wrong forum; I looked around a bit and this seemed to be the closest to "Civilians, ask questions here". Feel free to move or close it if it's too off-topic.

I'm not a firefighter, never have been; my high school was next to a firehouse, and all the cool kids were volunteers, but, therefore, by definition, I was not!

I live in a "high-rise" in Boston (15 stories, that's high here) with two good-sized cats. It was just built last year, so it's up to the latest code: sprinklers, annunciators in every room, auto-release fire doors, pressurized stairwells (I imagine), etc.

It's part of a three-building complex with about 500 units, so we get alarms at least once a week. And, as you know, in a modern high-rise apartment building, the triggering floor and the floor above usually get evacuated - and, occasionally, the whole complex if there's a risk of fire spreading. From experience, I'm guessing I will have to evacuate once a year.

Now, this (rightly) won't get *any* sympathy from you guys, who have to climb up and down stairwells every day in heavy gear, but pretend you're a 97-pound-weakling with neck and back injuries like me: Carrying 37 pounds of cat down 13 flights of stairs is really difficult and will involve several weeks of physical therapy. For that matter, getting 37 pounds of cat into two carriers in the first place (with loud sirens going off in every room) is probably a 30-minute task that involves moving several pieces of furniture and a clever successive-containment strategy.

So it's not the kind of thing I want to (or can) do just-in-case. And I believe typical high-rise evacuation plans err heavily on the side of just-in-case-ness.

On the other hand, once I get downstairs, there's no going back up. And I can't expect a FF to risk his/her life to go rescue my pets. Neither do I have any way, from my apartment, to know where the fire is, how contained it is, etc.

"What should I do" seems like an unanswerable question; I can either risk injury or risk the cats. But does anyone have any words of wisdom? It's not something I've ever seen addressed in emergency planning guides.

[firemonkey311]

If there really is a fire and you can't get your cats just get out yourself and leave your door open. The cats will be smart enough to get away from the fire. And they will come back to the hand that feeds them. Thats my theroy on it.

[nmfire]

The good news is that modern day high rise construction is really safe stuff. The building design and protection systems are going to greatly limit fire spread. Unless it is your unit, maybe your immediate neighbor's unit, chances are your cats will fine.

[JayLevitt]

Oh, I know what to do if I know there's a *fire*. I'm getting those cats out if I have to strap them to my ankles and get skin grafts later. They're my family.

I just don't know what to do if there's a fire *alarm*. The problem in a hi-rise is that fire alarms are a lot more common than fires, and you're isolated enough that you can't know which alarms are real fires.

I could try getting a scanner (or scanner software), but the odds of me getting over to my computer before the call goes out are fairly low...

[JHR1985]

there are stickers out there that you can buy to put on your door or since your a high rise window(since they might make access there in case of an emergency) that mention something like: In case of emergency, please rescue Blank number of Blank animal.

Now, that doesnt mean that they are going to risk life and limb for a couple of cats but it should let them know that there are animals in the apartment and if they have the manpower/time/circumstance to search for them, they will.

[JayLevitt]

If there really is a fire and you can't get your cats just get out yourself and leave your door open

Oh, I know what to do if I know there's a *fire*. I'm getting those cats out if I have to tie them to my ankles by their tails and get skin grafts afterwards. They're like family to me (except I like the cats).

I just haven't figured out what to do when there's a fire *alarm*, which is a lot more common than a fire... and I can't tell when an alarm is really a fire and when it's some guy overcooking ramen.

I thought about getting a scanner, but I doubt I could get to it in time to hear the call go out. In fact, I'm pretty sure we had an alarm the other night and I half-slept through it. I'm assuming I didn't burn to a crisp.

I think the "trust the fire blocks" and "get stickers" ideas are probably the best I can do... thanks, all.

[fireman4949]

I can appreciate your love and concern for your cats. Pets are members of the family, too.

That said, if there is a fire in your building, GET OUT!!!!! Don't waste valuable time trying to save your cats and risk losing your own life!

There is no way for you to be sure that all of the fire protection systems in your building are 100% functional at the time of a fire. There are times when sprinkler systems are down due to repair/maintenance issues. Fire alarm and protection systems are only as good as the people that install and maintain them.
The time you waste evacuating yourself may end up costing you dearly. If anything should happen to you, who will be left to take care of your cats?

Never risk your life for your pet(s).

[JayLevitt]

This is weird - I know I've posted back to this thread twice now, but it's not showing up. So they'll probably all show up at once later and make me look stupid.

@firemonkey and fireman: Yep, I know exactly what to do if there's a *fire*, as in, I can see flames - I'm tying the cats to my legs by their tails, running down those stairs, and I'll get skin grafts on my legs later. Either that, or they're going to learn to climb on brickwork really quickly. As you say, they're like my family (except that I like the cats).

The harder question is what to do when there's a fire *alarm*, but no visible fire, which is fairly common in a hi-rise. As you say, systems may or may not be working. Usually, it's someone overcooking the ramen, and I don't want to overreact. But there's no way to know the scale of the fire when I'm up in my apartment.

But then last year, there was an electrical fire in a construction area, and to be safe they eventually decided to evacuate the whole building. I didn't really think about it till I saw everyone carrying their children and walking their dogs down the stairs. Then we're sitting around in the lobby for an hour, waiting for the all-clear, and I'm seeing everyone around me and thinking "Man! Am I a lazy, selfish bastard? Those cats are still upstairs, dying of smoke inhalation in this hypothetical fire. These people have dog sweaters. Hey, that dog's got his own cell phone."

I thought about getting a scanner, but I probably wouldn't be able to hear the call-out in time.

I suppose you're probably right: Get stickers, leave the door unlocked, and hope for the best.

Jay

[davjohnson]

Can you move to a lower floor due to your health condition???

[FFFRED]

If there really is a fire and you can't get your cats just get out yourself and leave your door open. The cats will be smart enough to get away from the fire. And they will come back to the hand that feeds them. Thats my theroy on it.

Don't EVER prop open a door in a highrise during a fire. This is by far some of the worst advice I've ever seen on these forums. Compromising the compartmentalization by leaving doors opens leads to many issues, winds, smoke travel, blowtorch conditions...etc.

Leave the cats and hope for the best...most pets are very resilant and will survive. Also consider that attempting to carry them down stairs will only hamper the evacuation of the other residents who place a greater value on their lives and those of the other humans than the value on your pets.

FTM-PTB

[fireman4949]

This is weird - I know I've posted back to this thread twice now, but it's not showing up. So they'll probably all show up at once later and make me look stupid.

@firemonkey and fireman: Yep, I know exactly what to do if there's a *fire*, as in, I can see flames - I'm tying the cats to my legs by their tails, running down those stairs, and I'll get skin grafts on my legs later. Either that, or they're going to learn to climb on brickwork really quickly. As you say, they're like my family (except that I like the cats).

The harder question is what to do when there's a fire *alarm*, but no visible fire, which is fairly common in a hi-rise. As you say, systems may or may not be working. Usually, it's someone overcooking the ramen, and I don't want to overreact. But there's no way to know the scale of the fire when I'm up in my apartment.

But then last year, there was an electrical fire in a construction area, and to be safe they eventually decided to evacuate the whole building. I didn't really think about it till I saw everyone carrying their children and walking their dogs down the stairs. Then we're sitting around in the lobby for an hour, waiting for the all-clear, and I'm seeing everyone around me and thinking "Man! Am I a lazy, selfish bastard? Those cats are still upstairs, dying of smoke inhalation in this hypothetical fire. These people have dog sweaters. Hey, that dog's got his own cell phone."

I thought about getting a scanner, but I probably wouldn't be able to hear the call-out in time.

I suppose you're probably right: Get stickers, leave the door unlocked, and hope for the best.

Jay

Why do you assume that just because you see no flames, there is no great danger? :mad: Flames actually kills very few people...The smoke and toxic gases get them first. The flames just make victim identification a little more difficult. :rolleyes:

Not all alarms are for an actual fire, either. Consider a natural gas leak, for example.

Do yourself a favor and treat each alarm as though your life depended upon getting out as quickly as possible...It does!
Apathy and complacency kill!:mad: :mad: :mad:

[jerry4184]

Like fireman4949 said, treat all alarms like a fire. Granted, living in a residential highrise, false alarms are fairly common. This does lead to complacency. However, as you yourself pointed out, you aren't a firefighter. No obvious fire conditions, does not mean fire conditions don't exist. That's why the fire department responds to every alarm. Even though the vast majority are false (something over 98%), every once in awhile one of them is real. In FFFRED's case, working in New York, more of their automatic alarm activations result in a working fire than most fire departments have total working fires a year.

[JayLevitt]

Thanks for all the tips. (And I see my posts did eventually show up - and now I notice when I post that it says it'll be approved by a moderator. Sorry for the extra work, moderator.)

I was wondering about that "leave the door" open thing - as you say, that's the whole point of fire doors. I'll just make sure it's unlocked from the outside.

As for my "health condition", it's nothing a little exercise and some PT can't fix. OK, a lot of exercise. Still, at 36, I think I'm way too young to start needing a first-floor master bedroom suite :) I just was wondering what to do while I'm rehabbing.

[cowboy815]

Can cats be crate-trained like dogs? My dog's "safe place" and normal sleeping spot is his dog crate in the kitchen. It's his go-to place in a thunderstorm. If you can crate-train a cat, once the loud noises start of the in-unit alarms going off, and you start chasing them around the condominium, they would head straight for their "safe place", the crates. Then you just have to close the doors. Or maybe then move one to the other crate so they are together and you have one box to deal with.

[dmleblanc]

You could just toss them out the window....they always land on their feet, don't they? At least that's what I've always heard....:D :D :D

[FlyingRon]

There's actually a bit of research into falling cats. From a low height, such as the second floor, they do just land on their feet without injury. From some intermediate height (up to about six stories), the fall usually results in serious injury. Given the longer fall times from higher up, the cats stop trying to right themselves to land on their feet and relax allowing their bodies to distribute the impact over a broader area than taking it on the feet (much as paratroops are taught to roll in the landing).

So, as soon as the alarm goes out, throw them out the window if you are higher than six stories :)

I'm not sure my cats would tolerate being carried down 15 flights anyhow (I'd need turnouts and gloves to protect myself against their claws).

[JayLevitt]

Hehe - Ron, I saw the same research! I think it was on the ASPCA site. I'm on the 13th floor, so I believe that's above the "threshold" where they start surviving again.

That said, I don't entirely believe the statistics I saw; they could easily be skewed by (a) even cats aren't stupid enough to jump from the 45th floor, and (b) if they did, and they didn't survive, who's gonna bother calling the ASPCA to update their database? It's not like they went around with David Letterman and dropped an equal number of cats off each floor. I wanna see the numbers.

Sadly (?), I've got casement windows that only open a few inches. If the cats could fit through that, they'd be light enough for me to carry :)

I just need to train them to unroll a 13-story quick-escape ladder. Maybe if I disguise it as a toilet paper roll.

[dmleblanc]

You know, after pondering the falling cats for a bit, I did actually think of something that might be helpful. My veterinarian once suggested that a good way to transport a cat and keep it calm is to put it in a pillowcase. It's sort of immobilized so it can't get too nuts on you, and they tend to calm down a bit when they can't see anything to freak them out (I think they feel "safe" in there). I've used it to transport mine to the vet before when I didn't have a carrier available, and she remained quite calm throughout the whole affair. Plus, a pillowcase is probably pretty close at hand during an emergency, as opposed to going to find the cat carrier. Just a thought.

P.S. An afterthought....I'd probably put each cat in a seperate pillowcase :D

[JayLevitt]

dmleblanc, great idea about the pillowcases (and towels, too, to get them into the pillowcases)! I had read that once and completely forgot about it; it's what you're supposed to do if they don't like you clipping their claws. Yes, it's a combination of "I'm safe in this soft thing" and "well, what the #*($ else am I supposed to do in here? I'll take a nap and deal with it later."

And yeah, at 17 pounds for the one and 15 for the other, definitely two pillowcases :) I never went for those king-sized pillowcases anyway.

This also solves another problem I hadn't considered: Throwing them out the window is already punishment for missing the litterbox, and I don't want them to get confused in their training. (No, no, I'm kidding. If they miss the litterbox they just have to watch the Lifetime channel for a few hours. Never happens again. The window was for the cable guy who installed the Lifetime channel on my box.)

I'm learning a lot more about cats than I am about fires, but that's cool, because there wasn't no Smokey the Cat teaching me these things. Fires, on the other hand, well, we had an arsonist in our high school. 17 fires one year. Mostly trash fires in the library and bathrooms, but a few even scarier moments when he'd set fire to the scene shop during a play performance. We learned a LOT about how to build sets to conform to fire code that year, and ventilation systems, and required paths of egress, and panic bars vs. chain locks.

It goes without saying, but thanks to you all for doing what you do. You're truly brave and strong.

[VaMarine]

I don't know if I have missed the point here but it seems that really if a fire alarm goes off you should... I don't know whats that called LEAVE!!! Screw the animals they will manage on their own the best that they know how. If the smoke kills them then it would have killed you as well.

Think about it we tell everyone to get as low to the ground as possible to avoid the smoke. I don't think you can get any lower than a cat. You figure laying on the floor head resting on the ground the cat is still lower than your nose and mouth are.

Ohh and the worry about if its an alarm or if its an actual fire. Treat every alarm as its an actual fire because you never know when one is going to be one and you wasted the 2 minutes you had to get out safely looking for a furry little friend.

I'm surprised this question really needed posted and shocked that the general consensus wasn't to get the hell out of the house and screw the animals..

[FFFRED]

I don't know if I have missed the point here but it seems that really if a fire alarm goes off you should... I don't know whats that called LEAVE!!! Screw the animals they will manage on their own the best that they know how. If the smoke kills them then it would have killed you as well.

Think about it we tell everyone to get as low to the ground as possible to avoid the smoke. I don't think you can get any lower than a cat. You figure laying on the floor head resting on the ground the cat is still lower than your nose and mouth are.

Ohh and the worry about if its an alarm or if its an actual fire. Treat every alarm as its an actual fire because you never know when one is going to be one and you wasted the 2 minutes you had to get out safely looking for a furry little friend.

I'm surprised this question really needed posted and shocked that the general consensus wasn't to get the hell out of the house and screw the animals..

One problem is that in a highrise the only people that need to leave possibly are those on the floor of the fire and those above. If a fire broke out on the 4th floor of a 15story building and everyone from floors 6-15 came down the stairs...it would be a mess.

I remember one job I had in a hotel where the fire was on 2nd or 3rd floor but many people disregarded the PA instructions and continued down (a few probably didn't understand English) it made it hard for us moving the hose line in the stairs and hooking up. Some came down from as a high as the 20s and above!

Talk to your building personell and the local FD Fire prevention people to find out how they want you to handle a fire in your building. It is much different than how a fire is treated in non-fireproof Multiple Dwelling.

FTM-PTB

[JayLevitt]

Yep. A modern hi-rise, especially one built last year, is a whole different ball of wax than a house, a townstone, or my grandmother's apartment tower in Brooklyn. Here in Massachusetts, we use the 2002 NFPA and NEC codes. I can't find a summary online, but just from memory and observation:

Electrical:

* GFCI in all bathrooms and kitchens, of course
* AFCI (arc fault circuit interrupters) in all bedrooms
* All vertical cabling must be riser-rated (prevent spread between floors)
* No electrical fixtures or switches within reach of water fixtures
* All in-ceiling fixtures rated for insulation contact
* Outlets much closer together to reduce extension cord use

Construction:
* All party walls must have a fire stop
* All apartment-entry doors must be fire rated and self-closing
* Pressurized stairwells
* Multiple stairwells
* Subfloors are concrete (maybe 4-6")
* Fire-stop walls w/auto-closing (electromagnet) steel doors in hallways
* Gas: No pilot lights, ob-vi-ous-ly, or anything else w/o electronic ignition (but most hi-rises don't do gas anyway, due to the expense)

Alarm/detection:
* Smoke detectors within 10 feet of each bedroom
* CO detectors 10 feet of each bedroom
* Sprinklers every (looks like) 10 feet
* Fire alarm system with automatic central-station signalling, of course, as well as a panel at the security desk
* Annunciators in every room at 80 dB (strobes optional)
* Annunciators go off automatically with detectors on every floor with a recorded message
* On the detected floor and the floor above (and maybe the floor below, I forget), annunciators play an automatic evacuation signal
* Further evacuation at the discretion of facilities/fire department

That's just off the top of my head and without opening any walls. In general, it's commercial/hotel-level construction.

Yes, it can still catch fire. Anything can catch fire except that damned photo of my ex-girlfriend. But unless I dump a pallet of model rocket engines onto my stove, there's enough time for an orderly evacuation.

[BLSboy]

If there really is a fire and you can't get your cats just get out yourself and leave your door open. The cats will be smart enough to get away from the fire. And they will come back to the hand that feeds them. Thats my theroy on it.

Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it.....

Early Friday morning December 18, 1998, tragedy struck the FDNY for the 3rd time this year. A mere 7 days before Christmas the Red Devil claimed the lives of 3 fire fighters.

At 0454 hours Brooklyn transmitted box 4080 for a top floor fire at 17 Vandalia Avenue in the Starrett City development complex. The sprawling complex is located on Brooklyn's south shore in the Spring Creek section. The 10 story 50 x 200 fireproof building is used as a senior citizen's residence.

Engine 257 and ladder 170, both quartered in Canarsie, were assigned 1st due and arrived within 4 minutes. By that time the fire already could be seen blowing through two windows. Second and 3rd alarms were quickly transmitted.

As the 1st due ladder company, L170's duty is to search the fire floor. Lieutenant Joseph Cavalieri, and fire fighters Christopher Bopp and James Bohan ascended 10 flights of stairs with extinguishers and forcible entry tools. Their mission was to rescue the resident of apartment 10-D who was believed trapped inside.

Fortunately for the elderly resident she escaped shortly before the forcible entry team arrived. Unfortunately for them, she left the apartment door wide open. The additional oxygen from the hallway fed the inferno within and blew out the windows. The halls were equipped with sprinklers but for reasons unknown to anyone is why they were deactivated.

As the Lieutenant and fire fighters arrived at the door, a sudden change in the wind direction forced an estimated 29-MPH wind gust into the apartment, and a 2,000 degree fireball into the hallway. The 3 men only had enough time to get a Mayday out. The high heat instantly asphyxiated them and burned their masks off of them. Despite the best efforts of the rescue team and EMS, all 3 were pronounced dead at the hospital. Also injured in the fire were 6 other fire fighters and 4 residents. All but 1 are in stable condition at various hospitals. The most severely injured civilian, the occupant of the fire apartment, is in the hyperbaric unit in Jacoby Hospital in critical condition.

Lieutenant Cavalieri, 42, a resident of Malverne Long Island, is a 15-year veteran and leaves behind a wife and 2 teenaged daughters. Fire fighter Bopp, 27, a Brooklyn native, leaves behind a wife in her 3rd month of pregnancy. Fire fighter Bohan, 25, lived with his parents in Middle Village Queens and had an older brother.

This fire is being called the worst since the Waldbaums fire of August 2, 1978, in which 6 fire fighters lost their lives. This brings the total of fire fighters killed in the line of duty to 770. The cause of the blaze was careless smoking.

[fireman4949]

Yep. A modern hi-rise, especially one built last year, is a whole different ball of wax than a house, a townstone, or my grandmother's apartment tower in Brooklyn. Here in Massachusetts, we use the 2002 NFPA and NEC codes. I can't find a summary online, but just from memory and observation:

Electrical:

* GFCI in all bathrooms and kitchens, of course
* AFCI (arc fault circuit interrupters) in all bedrooms
* All vertical cabling must be riser-rated (prevent spread between floors)
* No electrical fixtures or switches within reach of water fixtures
* All in-ceiling fixtures rated for insulation contact
* Outlets much closer together to reduce extension cord use

Construction:
* All party walls must have a fire stop
* All apartment-entry doors must be fire rated and self-closing
* Pressurized stairwells
* Multiple stairwells
* Subfloors are concrete (maybe 4-6")
* Fire-stop walls w/auto-closing (electromagnet) steel doors in hallways
* Gas: No pilot lights, ob-vi-ous-ly, or anything else w/o electronic ignition (but most hi-rises don't do gas anyway, due to the expense)

Alarm/detection:
* Smoke detectors within 10 feet of each bedroom
* CO detectors 10 feet of each bedroom
* Sprinklers every (looks like) 10 feet
* Fire alarm system with automatic central-station signalling, of course, as well as a panel at the security desk
* Annunciators in every room at 80 dB (strobes optional)
* Annunciators go off automatically with detectors on every floor with a recorded message
* On the detected floor and the floor above (and maybe the floor below, I forget), annunciators play an automatic evacuation signal
* Further evacuation at the discretion of facilities/fire department

That's just off the top of my head and without opening any walls. In general, it's commercial/hotel-level construction.

Yes, it can still catch fire. Anything can catch fire except that damned photo of my ex-girlfriend. But unless I dump a pallet of model rocket engines onto my stove, there's enough time for an orderly evacuation.

Your attitude toward the actual danger that a fire in your building will present is frightening! Although, not completely unexpected for someone with absolutely no fire training or experience, it still shows a complete lack of knowledge and common sense. :rolleyes:

Building fires ain't nothing like you see in the movies! :rolleyes: And if you think your modern marvel of an apartment building is so safe, sound and secure, just do a little research. You'll find that even with all the "bells and whistles" that are required by current building and fire codes, people still continue to die in fires!

Hmm, I wonder why?! :rolleyes: :mad:

[JayLevitt]

But unless I dump a pallet of model rocket engines onto my stove, there's enough time for an orderly evacuation.

Your attitude toward the actual danger that a fire in your building will present is frightening! Although, not completely unexpected for someone with absolutely no fire training or experience, it still shows a complete lack of knowledge and common sense. :rolleyes:

Please clarify. Which part of my attitude lacks knowledge and common sense? The part where I evacuate when the fire deparment instructs me to, rather than at the first sign of smoke in any of 15 floors in any of three buildings, or the part where I do it in an orderly fashion?

[volfirie]

Please clarify. Which part of my attitude lacks knowledge and common sense? The part where I evacuate when the fire deparment instructs me to, rather than at the first sign of smoke in any of 15 floors in any of three buildings, or the part where I do it in an orderly fashion?

Beautifully put Jay...
You had a valid question (after all, the only stupid question is the one you don't ask) and you were obviously taking note of the responses - complete with humour.

[CaptainGonzo]

Originally Posted by JayLevitt
Yep. A modern hi-rise, especially one built last year, is a whole different ball of wax than a house, a townstone, or my grandmother's apartment tower in Brooklyn. Here in Massachusetts, we use the 2002 NFPA and NEC codes. I can't find a summary online, but just from memory and observation:

Electrical:

* GFCI in all bathrooms and kitchens, of course
* AFCI (arc fault circuit interrupters) in all bedrooms
* All vertical cabling must be riser-rated (prevent spread between floors)
* No electrical fixtures or switches within reach of water fixtures
* All in-ceiling fixtures rated for insulation contact
* Outlets much closer together to reduce extension cord use

Construction:
* All party walls must have a fire stop
* All apartment-entry doors must be fire rated and self-closing
* Pressurized stairwells
* Multiple stairwells
* Subfloors are concrete (maybe 4-6")
* Fire-stop walls w/auto-closing (electromagnet) steel doors in hallways
* Gas: No pilot lights, ob-vi-ous-ly, or anything else w/o electronic ignition (but most hi-rises don't do gas anyway, due to the expense)

Alarm/detection:
* Smoke detectors within 10 feet of each bedroom
* CO detectors 10 feet of each bedroom
* Sprinklers every (looks like) 10 feet
* Fire alarm system with automatic central-station signalling, of course, as well as a panel at the security desk
* Annunciators in every room at 80 dB (strobes optional)
* Annunciators go off automatically with detectors on every floor with a recorded message
* On the detected floor and the floor above (and maybe the floor below, I forget), annunciators play an automatic evacuation signal
* Further evacuation at the discretion of facilities/fire department

That's just off the top of my head and without opening any walls. In general, it's commercial/hotel-level construction.

Yes, it can still catch fire. Anything can catch fire except that damned photo of my ex-girlfriend. But unless I dump a pallet of model rocket engines onto my stove, there's enough time for an orderly evacuation

The Codes spell out what is required for occupant safety and notification.
You forgot the one part of the equation that is unpredictable:

human behavior in a fire situation.

[FFFRED]

Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it.....

Here is another job that happend only days latter...

4 Die in Hi-Rise Horror
With the memory of 3 fire fighter's funerals fresh in their minds, NYC's Bravest were called upon yet again to battle a 4 alarm hi-rise fire in the posh Upper West Side of Manhattan. This time, 4 civilians bore the brunt of the Red Devil's fury.

Shortly before 1000 hours, Wednesday December 23, 1998, the Manhattan C.O. received a call from the panic stricken resident of apartment 19-D at 124 West 60 Street. The caller, Patricia Brentrup and mother of actor Macaulay Culkin, stated an electric heater caught fire and spread to the couch. She and the family maid awoke the sleeping children and fled the apartment. Sadly, the front door was left propped open.

In a virtual repeat of the fire that killed 3 fire fighters 5 days prior, the hallway and stairwell were converted into a 2000-degree smokestack. Within minutes fire was showing through the 19th floor apartment's windows; clouds of black smoke billowed up along the buildings 51-story facade. Unlike the fire on Vandalia Avenue, this building was not required to have sprinklers in the hallways, only a firehose and standpipe in the stairwell.

Many residents on the upper floors were lucky in their attempt to leave the building. They took the stairway early enough to avoid being disabled by smoke and heat. But for 4 others the timing just wasn't right. Between the 27th and 29th floor, 4 people died of smoke inhalation.

Some residents didn't make it out of their apartments in time and they were forced to stay inside. As heat and smoke increased they fled to their terraces in the frigid air. This was the best course of action.

In NYC all buildings over 75 feet in height must be "fireproof." The term is misleading. It does not refer to the contents of the building, only the structure itself. In optimum conditions a fire will not spread beyond an apartment or compartment provided of course that the doors are closed. That was not the case in this, or the Vandalia Avenue fire.

"Stay in your apartment," was the only advice we could give the callers. Some did. But there's no telling how one will react in a life-threatening situation.

[bcarey]

Wow. Nine posts before someone said "do not leave the door open".
Truth is, you can buy more cats.
You can't buy a life.

Read about the fire in Staten Island, Tears for boy killed in S.I. fire (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/12/21/2007-12-21_tears_for_boy_killed_in_si_ fire-2.html)

[nyckftbl]

Wow. Nine posts before someone said "do not leave the door open".
Truth is, you can buy more cats.
You can't buy a life.

Read about the fire in Staten Island, Tears for boy killed in S.I. fire (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/12/21/2007-12-21_tears_for_boy_killed_in_si_ fire-2.html)

Bcarey is right.

The child killed in this fire was the nephew of a fireman from E24/L5. That house has experienced more loss in the last 6 years that any dept should ever suffer in a lifetime.

[JayLevitt]

Can cats be crate-trained like dogs?

Oops! I never saw this, sorry. But you're a new poster too, so you were probably being auto-moderated like me.

Crate training is wonderful - I have a friend whose 100-pound dog is crate trained, and preparing for trips is easy as pie.

Sadly, cats can't be crate-trained, or nearly anything-else-trained. (The general joke is that dogs are so smart, they can learn to obey commands; cats are so smart, they can decide they don't feel like it.) One of my cats does run for safe places, but "safe" is "way under the bed where Jay can't get me and take me to the vet". The other wants to go see what all the fuss is and find out if he can get some food out of the deal.

Ah, well.