I see it but I DONT believe it ! WTF ??

[Weruj1]

Beer in Minnesota Fire Station Gets Approval
Updated: 10-17-2007 01:48:15 PM


NEW ULM, Minn.-- New Ulm's volunteer firefighters now can kick back and pop the top on a brewsky after a fire call or other related functions inside Fire Station buildings as a result of City Council action Tuesday.

The New Ulm Fire Department's request was approved on a 4-1 vote, with Councilor Sharon Weinkauf voting no. The affirmative vote also overrode concerns raised by Assistant City Attorney Roger Hippert who said allowing the firefighters to drink alcoholic beverages essentially on the job raised "some serious concerns about liability."

Hippert quoted from a League of Minnesota Cities publication, which listed a number of issues involved in allowing drinking in the fire station.

"I think there are some legitimate causes for concern like [operating equipment] while impaired and who is going to determine when a firefighter is impaired," Hippert said.

"The official stance of the department is that the individual is the best judge of when you're obviously intoxicated," said Scott Windschitl, president of the New Ulm Fire Department Relief Association.

In introducing the agenda item, Council President Dan Beranek said the issue could be argued both ways but, in the end, "I feel these [firefighters] who put themselves at risk in fighting fires are responsible enough to know when they've had too much. To me, the pluses outweigh the minuses."

"They're really leaving it up to the individual to determine, and the council could impose some restrictions," City Manager Brian Gramentz suggested.

"That's one of my main concerns that there are no limitations, and who decides when a fireman is impaired," Hippert said.

Mayor Joel Albrecht said he agreed with Beranek that New Ulm firefighters are "very responsible and should be able to enjoy one beer when they're through."

"What do you mean, one beer?" Weinkauf asked.

"Yes, one beer. I've been to several fire department functions, and that's all I've seen them drink," Albrecht said.

[DrParasite]

woooooooooooooooooooow

While I happen to agree that one beer doesn't make you drunk or intoxicated, and do like having a bar in a firehouse FOR SOCIAL EVENTS ONLY, I have to say allowing them to have beer so they can have a cold brew after a call is just plain :confused: :confused:

[jonnyirons2]

on the job? Volunteering means you can choose which alarms to respond to, so after drinking you dont respond. What is so hard to understand?

[ChiefReason]

I'm guessing that they will have "designated firefighters".
Some will drink, but will not respond. The "designated" firefighters will do that!
Talk about going full circle.
Apparently, New Ulm doesn't know or forgot about PSOBs and the presence of ANY alcohol or drugs in your system at the time of your LODD.
It's a wacky world, for sure.
CR

[ffscm72]

Beer in Minnesota Fire Station Gets Approval
Updated: 10-17-2007 01:48:15 PM


NEW ULM, Minn.-- New Ulm's volunteer firefighters now can kick back and pop the top on a brewsky after a fire call or other related functions inside Fire Station buildings as a result of City Council action Tuesday.

The New Ulm Fire Department's request was approved on a 4-1 vote, with Councilor Sharon Weinkauf voting no. The affirmative vote also overrode concerns raised by Assistant City Attorney Roger Hippert who said allowing the firefighters to drink alcoholic beverages essentially on the job raised "some serious concerns about liability."

Hurray Sharon Weinkauf!!!

"The official stance of the department is that the individual is the best judge of when you're obviously intoxicated," said Scott Windschitl, president of the New Ulm Fire Department Relief Association.

He apparently has never been in a bar or has been locked in his mothers closet for sometime!

In introducing the agenda item, Council President Dan Beranek said the issue could be argued both ways but, in the end, "I feel these [firefighters] who put themselves at risk in fighting fires are responsible enough to know when they've had too much. To me, the pluses outweigh the minuses."

Dan has never been to a Appreciation night in his life to say something so dumb.

1.)"They're really leaving it up to the individual to determine, and the council could impose some restrictions," City Manager Brian Gramentz suggested.

"That's one of my main concerns that there are no limitations, and who decides when a fireman is impaired," Hippert said.

Hopefully the individual is smart enough not to get on fire apparatus while intoxicated. But the Fire Company should imposing the restrictions and consequences for this. (then again)


"Yes, one beer. I've been to several fire department functions, and that's all I've seen them drink," Albrecht said.

Someone is a d*mned liar...

[GodSendRain]

Wow. Could we be witnessing a return to less sophisticated times? Might we one day find ourselves enjoying the same firehouse lifestyle that the legends our grandfathers talked of enjoyed many years ago? - to a time where political incorrectness was the rule of law and men were made of steel?

Naaahhh.

[mcaldwell]

"The official stance of the department is that the individual is the best judge of when you're obviously intoxicated," said Scott Windschitl, president of the New Ulm Fire Department Relief Association.

OK, tell the cops to go home. No more spot checks required. Same for the liquor inspectors. And of course the Bouncer's can turn in their t-shirts too.

The individual is more than adequate to judge his or her own intoxication.:D



Well most departments around here still allow beer, but it is trending the other way. We have been dry for over a year (very limited annual events aside), as are two of our regional sister stations. I didn't, nor don't see my guys running for the door. ;)

[cozmosis]

So, they have a beer after a run... Okay.

Then the second run comes in while their enjoying their beer.

What happens now, Mr. Mayor?

[ThNozzleman]

What happens now, Mr. Mayor?
Relax...it's under control. There's a second resolution before council seeking approval for the installation of multiple cup holders in all the rigs.

Idiots.

[kjohn23]

Can we say stupidity?
Can we spell liability?
How many times do we have to prove that alcohol (Beer included) has no place in a fire station. There is a time and a place for a beer, but the firehouse should not be one of them.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Why is it that I can see this quote posted in 3 foot letters in the courtroom during the trial when the FD is getting sued for a FF DUI crash?

"The official stance of the department is that the individual is the best judge of when you're obviously intoxicated," said Scott Windschitl, president of the New Ulm Fire Department Relief Association.

Besides, this "stance" has always worked so well in the past.

[HotTrotter]

It's a local issue. Just because it won't work in your department doesn't mean it won't work there!!! :rolleyes: Besides, it's tradition :eek: .

[Hazmat91180]

on the job? Volunteering means you can choose which alarms to respond to, so after drinking you dont respond. What is so hard to understand?


The fact that you would have to monitor how many people are actually drinking to make sure that when the Box comes in, which will eventually happen, that you don't have half your crew not able to participate. Furthermore, you know that people are going to go to the box impaired, the adrenaline will sober them up immediately (in their head).

This scares me.

[HotTrotter]

The fact that you would have to monitor how many people are actually drinking to make sure that when the Box comes in, which will eventually happen, that you don't have half your crew not able to participate. Furthermore, you know that people are going to go to the box impaired, the adrenaline will sober them up immediately (in their head).

This scares me.

That happens whether they are in the firehouse, local gin mill on Friday night, or just at home. I guess if they are all in one place you can at least make sure you have 3 or 4 guys to respond.

[BFDNJFF]

on the job? Volunteering means you can choose which alarms to respond to, so after drinking you dont respond. What is so hard to understand?

I have to agree with you on this one. People are forgetting its VOLUNTEER. Many VOLUNTEER FD have alcohol is there stations and as responsible adults should know that if you drink then you don't respond or you suffer the same consequences as anyone else.

[ThNozzleman]

I have to agree with you on this one. People are forgetting its VOLUNTEER.
I don't think anyone is forgetting it's "VOLUNTEER." Anytime this stupidity comes up, it's usually quite obvious.
Many VOLUNTEER FD have alcohol is there stations and as responsible adults should know that if you drink then you don't respond or you suffer the same consequences as anyone else.
I beg to differ. It's usually some innocent that suffers the consequences. One's ability to think responsibly begins to diminish the instant alcohol hits the blood stream.

[ThNozzleman]

These ought to sell like hotcakes...

[BFDNJFF]

I don't think anyone is forgetting it's "VOLUNTEER." Anytime this stupidity comes up, it's usually quite obvious.

I beg to differ. It's usually some innocent that suffers the consequences. One's ability to think responsibly begins to diminish the instant alcohol hits the blood stream.


We had a policy. Alcohol is drank you don't respond. Its pretty simple if you ask me.

I guess your just not mature enough to make that decision huh Nozz?

[masterFF]

I have to agree with you on this one. People are forgetting its VOLUNTEER. Many VOLUNTEER FD have alcohol is there stations and as responsible adults should know that if you drink then you don't respond or you suffer the same consequences as anyone else.

Yes but you usually read about things going the other way and enforcing/enacting a no alcohol policy. This is bass ackward from the norm. And you know why people are enacting no alcohol policies-probrably because people were not making reasonable decisions after impaired with alcohol. If it was as well as you are suggesting, people wouldn't be changing to no alcohol policies in the station.

[ThNozzleman]

I guess your just not mature enough to make that decision huh Nozz?
And I guess you're just too stupid to realize that people drinking alcohol lose their ability to make mature decisions, huh? And they don't respond to calls after having "one or two"? Please. We all know better than that, don't we?

Drinking alcohol in a fire station...and some volunteers wonder why they don't get any damned respect from the professionals. Pitiful. You guys are real leaders in the profession. :rolleyes:

[RyanEMVFD]

Everybody please take five steps backward.

[BLSboy]

One step forward, 5 steps backwards.

Other then social events, where the drinking parties are NOT allowed to respond, no matter if its a BS AFA, or a confirmed structure fire with entrapments, no alcohol is in the station.

This is ANOTHER black eye for the fire service, and makes us professional volunteers look like moronic wackers. :(

[voyager9]

Everybody please take five steps backward.

Is that the new sobriety test to see if you're too drunk to get on the rig?

If there is going to be alcohol at the fire house, the fire company better have very very strict enforcement of a no-response policy. If you're drinking your helmet gets locked behind the bar, or whatever. I think "They'll know if they're too drunk" is just asinine. The quote about enjoying a few after a call is worse.

[Jwarne2001]

Uhhhh, wow.

Call me crazy, but any employer I've ever worked for has the rule that I am not allowed to drink while on the job. This would include dishwasher (where I certainly could've used a few :D), warehouse worker, boxboy, live television production, financial planner......and in those jobs I wasn't operating $500,000 worth of apparatus, working in dangerous environments and trying to save people's lives where quick action and critical thinking was required.

For cripe's sake, McDonald's employees are not allowed to drink on the job...even just "one."

[BLSboy]

Uhhhh, wow.

Call me crazy, but any employer I've ever worked for has the rule that I am not allowed to drink while on the job. This would include dishwasher (where I certainly could've used a few :D), warehouse worker, boxboy, live television production, financial planner......and in those jobs I wasn't operating $500,000 worth of apparatus, working in dangerous environments and trying to save people's lives where quick action and critical thinking was required.

For cripe's sake, McDonald's employees are not allowed to drink on the job...even just "one."

Best analogy I have heard yet!

We won't allow Mickey Dees workers to drink, but the Firemen ARE allowed to?!?:mad:

[DrParasite]

Drinking alcohol in a fire station...and some volunteers wonder why they don't get any damned respect from the professionals. Pitiful. You guys are real leaders in the profession. :rolleyes:not for nothing, but remember the rumors currently flying around about the two Boston LODDs? As much as I hope they aren't true, I am not naive enough to say that it's impossible. And not only that, remember the chair incident in New York City? last I checked, alcohol was involved.

and both those cities (arguably some of the best firefighters in the profession) have rules against drinking!!!!!

So don't go painting all volunteer departments with that broad of a brush, because one can do the exact same thing to the career side using the above examples.

Having rules against alcohol is a good start. But it's like having rules requiring seatbelts. Great to have, but until the culture of the Fire service changes (both volunteer AND career), from the Chiefs, to the BCs, to the Captains, to the Lts, to the senior men, to the line firefighters, to the newest probies, to believe that drinking anytime there is a chance you may be going on a call is completely unacceptable, we will continue to have problems such as this.

[Jwarne2001]

Best analogy I have heard yet!

We won't allow Mickey Dees workers to drink, but the Firemen ARE allowed to?!?:mad:

I want to meet the guy who actually had the stones to go to the Mayor and City Council and lobby for this! Seriously, this guy is in the wrong line of work because he was actually able to convince them that this is a good idea!

He could probably sell ice to an eskimo!

[BLSboy]

I want to meet the guy who actually had the stones to go to the Mayor and City Council and lobby for this! Seriously, this guy is in the wrong line of work because he was actually able to convince them that this is a good idea!

He could probably sell ice to an eskimo!

If they had half a brain, they would have used him to get new equipment, new house, hell, even *gasp* career staffing!:eek:

[RyanEMVFD]

not for nothing, but remember the rumors currently flying around about the two Boston LODDs? As much as I hope they aren't true, I am not naive enough to say that it's impossible. And not only that, remember the chair incident in New York City? last I checked, alcohol was involved.

and both those cities (arguably some of the best firefighters in the profession) have rules against drinking!!!!!

So don't go painting all volunteer departments with that broad of a brush, because one can do the exact same thing to the career side using the above examples.

Having rules against alcohol is a good start. But it's like having rules requiring seatbelts. Great to have, but until the culture of the Fire service changes (both volunteer AND career), from the Chiefs, to the BCs, to the Captains, to the Lts, to the senior men, to the line firefighters, to the newest probies, to believe that drinking anytime there is a chance you may be going on a call is completely unacceptable, we will continue to have problems such as this.

Not getting into a paid vs vollie arguement. To me this is something totally different. With Boston and New York it was discovered after the incident. This department is advertising it before they have a major incident. And yes, they will have a major incident.

[jonnyirons2]

Here is the difference between paid an volunteer. When its a paid situation and someone cant respond, you dont have someone to do a critical job. When its volunteer you can hopefully wait for someone else to show up or forsake that position till later on. I would not drink and drive a 30 ton tower ladder or a 15 ton Engine, its moronic at best not just for yourself but for the people around you.

But to deny a few to guys that show up for FREE at all hours every day 365 for FEAR of having an alarm while they throw 1-3 back is also the fast way to ruin morale. People like to feel like they get something when they volunteer, food, drink, lights for their cars, it goes on and on. But the second you remove one of those people get pissed and that ruins their overall attitude. Ive seen it happen where I volunteer and I rarely ever drink. You have to keep the members happy. Its the bottom line especially when you have to deal with popularity over skill keeping things going.

[ThNozzleman]

But to deny a few to guys that show up for FREE at all hours every day 365 for FEAR of having an alarm while they throw 1-3 back is also the fast way to ruin morale.
If your department needs alcohol flowing to maintain morale, I feel sorry for you.
People like to feel like they get something when they volunteer, food, drink, lights for their cars, it goes on and on.
Kick ass! They get to drink at the station, and they get lights on their cars!
So don't go painting all volunteer departments with that broad of a brush, because one can do the exact same thing to the career side using the above examples.
Really? How many career departments across the nation have bars in them? How many career guys here are allowed to drink in the station they work at? I'm not painting anything with a broad brush. Most volunteers are just as ashamed of this attitude as career firefighters. But when you have people making statements like this one...
You have to keep the members happy. Its the bottom line especially when you have to deal with popularity over skill keeping things going.
...it just makes it harder on the rest of the voluteers struggling to be recognized as professional minded firefighters.

[ThNozzleman]

Everybody please take five steps backward.
This is one issue on which I'll never step backward.

[jonnyirons2]

Ok so we will drink beer at a bar then go to the firehouse, how is that? Not everyone drinks on weeknights due to things called work the next day! You never know what anyone has done before they came to the firehouse so we might as well breathalyze everyone before hand.

Seriously you need to know who you are working with and dont ever falsely accuse anyone.

[ThNozzleman]

Ok so we will drink beer at a bar then go to the firehouse, how is that?
Equally unacceptable.

[HotTrotter]

I don't know what the big deal is... I usually grab a couple of shots when the tones go off, helps keep the adrenaline down.

But really they are big boys - aka adults. They need to be intelligent enough to practice some self control. And it doesn't matter where you drink.

[DrParasite]

Really? How many career departments across the nation have bars in them? Einstein, do you really think you need to have a bar in a firehouse to have alcohol in a firehouse? C'mon, I don't think you are that stupid. a 6 pack in the fridge can dispense beer just as effectively as a bartender with a keg. and in case you were wondering, most of those bars are not new, they have been in the firehouses for years. most are not installing new bars into existing firehouse. How many career guys here are allowed to drink in the station they work at? I'm not painting anything with a broad brush. Most volunteers are just as ashamed of this attitude as career firefighters.I bet there are very few (if any) career departments that allow their firefighters to drink, at least according to the rule book. But I would bet my salary against yours, that if I put a spy cam in every career fire house in the nation, I would find career firefighters who are drinking in the fire house. It wouldn't be many, but it does happen whether you want to admit it or not. Probably not in your house, but it does in others. And their fellow career brothers often turn a blind eye to it. And it's not right.

and it's also not right to think that volunteers can have a few drinks and then hop on the apparatus when they have a run.

Like I said, it is an attitude that the fire service as a whole needs to change.

[WebFire]

I have to agree with you on this one. People are forgetting its VOLUNTEER. Many VOLUNTEER FD have alcohol is there stations and as responsible adults should know that if you drink then you don't respond or you suffer the same consequences as anyone else.

So, when you are fighting fires you want to be equal to the paid guys. But when it comes to having a beer at the station, well heck, your just volunteers, right? :mad:

Sorry pal, you're wrong.

[BoxAlarm187]

But to deny a few to guys that show up for FREE at all hours every day 365 for FEAR of having an alarm while they throw 1-3 back is also the fast way to ruin morale.

If you have to have alcohol on hand to motivate the members of your VFD, you need a culture change! Don't forget that you communicate with as many volunteers on here as you do career personnel (I happen to be both). We don't have alcohol at our VFD (and never have), the members don't want it, you don't go to ANY call ANYTIME if you've had alcohol in the past eight hours, and guess what? No morale problems here.

Do all of us volunteers a favor and stop making us look like idiots. Volunteers always want to be compared to career firefighters, until this issue comes up, and then it's okay to have different standards? Please take the time to re-examine your stance on this sensative issue....

[GodSendRain]

What is an interesting aspect of having alcohol in a station is that just 15 years ago, it would have been perfectly normal. Ask anyone who fought fire back in the "good 'ole days." They'll tell you how they got it to work. Either no one knew about it, perhaps, or the drinkers didn't drive the trucks. There were certainly some restraints and regulations, or you didn't take part. Fast forward to today; it's completely different. Blame social change. Ultimately, it seems likely that the fate of this decision rests with citizens' reaction in New Ulm, MN.

Oddly enough, we seem to be very capable of finding equally effective ways to kill ourselves en route to, returning from, and on fire scenes even when we're 100% sober. I think a better use of city council powers would have been to put firefighters on probation or even a short suspension for not wearing their seatbelts while riding the trucks, though, I doubt it would be any easier to enforce.

Lastly, we should have seen this rapidly turning into a vollie vs. paid thread. The fact is that stupidity does not discriminate. Someone might argue that a volunteer fire department having a beer upon returning from a call is the stupidest thing they have ever heard, but then again, next week we'll be talking about strippers in a big city career fire department. Of course, we already know what predisposed judgements some here have based on their own deeply embedded bias.

[FlyingKiwi]

15 years ago it would be normal?

Yes it was, is it normal now? yes it is?

Is it done as hard as it was then, in some small towns, possibly.

Is it a thing that can ever be removed as long as there is a voli structure existing, no probably not.

Reality is the thing you you wake up to in the middlle of the night.

Pereception is how you deal with that reality.

Fact, is the outcome of what happens to your perceved reality.

simple realy

[jonnyirons2]

No one was comparing the Volunteer/Career bs. I would love to have beer at work! Not a lot maybe 1 or 2 with dinner or a glass of wine for the gindaloons and their 'gravy' meals. I was stating you could work with a drunk at any firehouse not one where its paid and one where its done for free. And if any of you are Chiefs in your volunteer dept you will see how much further you get with people if you have food or drink for them when they come out. If you still think its a poor way to boost morale come and live here in NY and pay 15k for taxes a year and find time between your 2 jobs to respond to fire alarms. Every bit helps, and I appreciate it when the Chief arranges for refreshments after drills and alarms, it shows that they appreciate our dedication.

If you dont want alcohol involved at your firehouse and no one else does so be it, but dont go forcing your opinions on to others as being stupid. Of course no one drinks and drives but thats when we know who was drinking!

I remember when the soda machine had beer, the good old days!

[HotTrotter]

Well I don't drink and drive. The stupid seat belt keeps me from reaching the beer in the back seat :mad:

There is nothing wrong with drinking a few beers together. I've seen the "Anybody want to sit around and have a couple of soda?" routine. Nope!!! Got to go. No thanks. Ask the other question. "Hey how a bout a few beers" Good idea, let's go, sounds great!!! It isn't that you need the beer, it's just that the beer works better.

We ask enough of these volunteers, I don't think it is too much to ask to give them a few beers in return for the hours of UNPAID work.

After all, this isn't the 30's, prohibition was proven not to work, those days are long gone my friends. So you can stick your head in the sand and make believe it doesn't happen, or you can face reality.

[Bones42]

Volunteers always want to be compared to career firefighters Where do people come up with this crap? I've been doing this 25+ years and I still don't give a rats @$$ if anyone compares me to a career firefighter. And I don't know a single guy that ever says it. Get real. If you have guys with that issue, deal with them.


This is a real simple issue. Don't drink (anywhere) and respond. Period.

[jonnyirons2]

The BONES has spoken!

The End

Case Closed

Dont be that 'guy'!

Stay Safe!

[BoxAlarm187]

Where do people come up with this crap?

Bones, you and I have been on these boards long enough to know that there are countless vollies out there that want to be compared to the career folk. "...we have as much, if not more training than you..." and "...we don't get paid to watch TV all the time..." and the rest of that BS is posted all the time. If it doesn't apply to you, don't take offense to it.

Johnny, we have a great number of members that have come down to our little VFD in Virginia from NJ and NY, and I've been up to there area. I do know that the tax rates are insanely high, and I know that it's the norm to have bars, beer, and alcohol around. It might be a way of life for some of y'all, but for a majority of the country it's not. If you can't tell, I feel strongly about this, and will continue to.

To everyone else, keep the alcohol out of the stations (career, volunteer, or POC) and go home safe!

[BLSboy]

Someone might argue that a volunteer fire department having a beer upon returning from a call is the stupidest thing they have ever heard, but then again, next week we'll be talking about strippers in a big city career fire department.

Apples and Oranges here. BJs and ta tas are WAYYY different then responding to emergencies under the influence.
Not to mention the fires and other emergencies are WAYYY different then what you were going to 15 years ago. BTUs released by the plastics found in many new homes are in the 24,000 range, resulting in flashover and rapid fire development much faster then before. We have to be on our toes, watching for rollover and feeling for the heat through our gear. Sorry, but you just can't do that intoxicated.

[RoughRider]

Uhhhh, wow.

Call me crazy, but any employer I've ever worked for has the rule that I am not allowed to drink while on the job. This would include dishwasher (where I certainly could've used a few :D), warehouse worker, boxboy, live television production, financial planner......and in those jobs I wasn't operating $500,000 worth of apparatus, working in dangerous environments and trying to save people's lives where quick action and critical thinking was required.

For cripe's sake, McDonald's employees are not allowed to drink on the job...even just "one."


I get paid to wine & dine clients. I enjoy it.:D I won't be anywhere near the Firehouse if I do.

I really don't understand how anyone can defend drinking and then respond to alarms. That said, I wonder how many pushes down the hallway have been made with a belly full of bud?:mad:

[RoughRider]

No one was comparing the Volunteer/Career bs. I would love to have beer at work! Not a lot maybe 1 or 2 with dinner or a glass of wine for the gindaloons and their 'gravy' meals. I was stating you could work with a drunk at any firehouse not one where its paid and one where its done for free. And if any of you are Chiefs in your volunteer dept you will see how much further you get with people if you have food or drink for them when they come out. If you still think its a poor way to boost morale come and live here in NY and pay 15k for taxes a year and find time between your 2 jobs to respond to fire alarms. Every bit helps, and I appreciate it when the Chief arranges for refreshments after drills and alarms, it shows that they appreciate our dedication.

If you dont want alcohol involved at your firehouse and no one else does so be it, but dont go forcing your opinions on to others as being stupid. Of course no one drinks and drives but thats when we know who was drinking!

I remember when the soda machine had beer, the good old days!

I remember when the soda machine had beer, the good old days!

And for 25 cents!!

[kevbuffalo]

just think how this whole thing sounds to the people of this town, city, whatever.... Someone whom is a representative of the fire department comes to the governing body of the town and says, "we want beer please". volunteers vs paid who cares, unless you are a beer taste tester why are you drinking where you work. All it takes is one night where after a call one of those guys maybe has two or three and not just one drink and is driving home, when they hit someone else and that person dies, (and by the way we all know this has happened before and will happen again).
But should it? We do this job for the love of the job, and thats it! there is a difference in the world of vollies expecting something for giving a little extra of themselves, but what is wrong with just saying "hey guys lets go over to a ______ watering hole and have a drink", every town has one. There is nothing wrong about being social with other members of "our family", but if we expect the world handed to us, we wont earn the respect we deserve.

and just a side thought that has not come up yet. where do the funds come from that are paying for this beer. payments from the town for fire protection? Fundraising? (can we say please give us money so we can drink to protect you.) if I lived there and they used the towns money for this i would be outraged just for that fact alone.

[RyanEMVFD]

The law doesn't allow people to drink and drive regular vehicles, what makes fire trucks special?

If I was a police officer in that town I'd stage outside and start pulling people over for DWI when they leave.

[Steamin441]

Now now lets' not get crazy and start pulling the cop card out. Firefighters are not cops nor should they be. Ratting out your brother to the gunsmiths is not the answer. If some knucklehead should show up on scene with a wiff of the holiday spirit(regardless of the holiday)...the senior member present might explain why this is not such a good idea and never ever do something this stupid again. Emphasize 'stupid'.For the record..Why is this so hard to understand?

[jercvfd]

I am a vollie from MN, and I just watched the interview on the local news with a council member from New Ulm. What a way to get national recognition,not for a great grab, or for great knockdown, but for condoning drinking at a fire station. I hope their city has good liability ins. I am glad our city doesn't mutual aid with that dept. It must be a great feeling knowing that a guy who you are supposed to trust with your life , is wearing a beautiful set of BEER GOGGLES! EMBARRASSING

[BLSboy]

Now now lets' not get crazy and start pulling the cop card out. Firefighters are not cops nor should they be. Ratting out your brother to the gunsmiths is not the answer. If some knucklehead should show up on scene with a wiff of the holiday spirit(regardless of the holiday)...the senior member present might explain why this is not such a good idea and never ever do something this stupid again. Emphasize 'stupid'.For the record..Why is this so hard to understand?

Are you some kind of MORON, or do you just play one in real life?:confused:
That person should be REMOVED from the fire ground immediatly, suspended for an indefinate amount of time, (see FOREVER), and if he DROVE to the call and or station, he should be arrested for DUI.

Have you ever heard of Andee Huber, or have you been living under a rock, you MORON?:mad:

[jonnyirons2]

That said, I wonder how many pushes down the hallway have been made with a belly full of bud?:mad:



A lot of them!

[jercvfd]

I thought we did this job to protect citizens,families and ourselves, not endangering them by being stupid.

[jercvfd]

Johnny , there is something to be proud of. I bet your partner appreciated your crystal clear judgement and excellant coordination.

[ThNozzleman]

Einstein, do you really think you need to have a bar in a firehouse to have alcohol in a firehouse? C'mon, I don't think you are that stupid. a 6 pack in the fridge can dispense beer just as effectively as a bartender with a keg. and in case you were wondering, most of those bars are not new, they have been in the firehouses for years. most are not installing new bars into existing firehouse.
Well, no...I don't need a patch of weed to have pot smoking going on, either. What's your point? That just because firefighters can drink anywhere else and respond, it's ok to set up a bar in the station? There's a lot of stupid stuff that used to go on in fire stations for years. That doesn't make it right. Try again.
I bet there are very few (if any) career departments that allow their firefighters to drink, at least according to the rule book. But I would bet my salary against yours, that if I put a spy cam in every career fire house in the nation, I would find career firefighters who are drinking in the fire house.
Right. And I'll bet you'll find Jimmy Hoffa sneaking around, too. Again, what about that makes it ok to have a bar in a fire department? What next? Are you going to build in a strip club, too? Just because a couple of paid firefighters had some skanks drop by the station? You're not making a lot of sense.

[HotTrotter]

How about showing up after working a long hard day totally exhausted.
How about the guys who race to get to the scene.
How about the guys that show up with a cold or the flu.
How about the guy that shows up with a bad back or a sore leg or arm.
How about the guy that shows up on prescription meds.
How about the guy that shows up about 10% of the time and has no clue.
How about the guy that shows up after 6 cups of coffee.
How about the guy that shows up after drinking 4 red bulls.
All are the same as the guy who shows up after 1 or 2 beers.

I'm not talking about drunks, just one or two beers.

In each and ever case above the individual has to know their limits. They have to put down the hero mentality and ask if they will be a liability on the scene.

BTW - what is wrong with saying it is OK to have a beer or two after a hard days work?

[DeputyMarshal]

If some knucklehead should show up on scene with a wiff of the holiday spirit(regardless of the holiday)...the senior member present might explain why this is not such a good idea and never ever do something this stupid again. Emphasize 'stupid'.For the record..Why is this so hard to understand?

Or -- novel concept -- we could make absolutely sure all the knuckleheads are made aware of how stupid it is before they "show up on scene with a wiff of the holiday spirit" and show them the door if they ever do it anyway.

As for the crowd who thinks that serving alcohol in the firehouse is somehow justified as some sort of "morale booster," what drugs are you on?!? I can see the image now: volunteers out in front of the firehouse holding crudely lettered signs:

"Will Fight Fire for Beer"

Any firefigher who you can't motivate without alcohol is a firefighter you'd be well served to do without.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

A lot of them!

I'll bet you're still making them, Cancer.

[ChicagoFF]

If I was a police officer in that town I'd stage outside and start pulling people over for DWI when they leave.
Wow, it's almost as if you are excited by the prospect.... weird....

[ChicagoFF]

I wonder how many pushes down the hallway have been made with a belly full of bud?:mad:All of them, from what I hear from the old guys! :p

[ChicagoFF]

Are you some kind of MORON, or do you just play one in real life?:confused:
That person should be REMOVED from the fire ground immediatly, suspended for an indefinate amount of time, (see FOREVER), and if he DROVE to the call and or station, he should be arrested for DUI.

Have you ever heard of Andee Huber, or have you been living under a rock, you moron?:mad:So, are you gonna be the guy to rat out your friends? Do they know that you are this guy? Or do you keep that quiet... :rolleyes:

[BLSboy]

So, are you gonna be the guy to rat out your friends? Do they know that you are this guy or do you keep that quiet... :rolleyes:

Chicago;
check your PMs, the general population needs not know what I am going to tell you. What I will say, is I will stick by my Brother Firefighters UNTIL they take an action that DELEBRATELY puts me, and my other Brothers in danger.

[CaptainGonzo]

How about showing up after working a long hard day totally exhausted.

Maybe if they are that tired, they should stay home

How about the guys who race to get to the scene.

They should be written up for for driving to endanger and speeding

How about the guys that show up with a cold or the flu.

Colds can be dealt with. Nobody has died from a head cold. The flu.. stay home, if you are feverish and puking, you are useless on the fireground.

How about the guy that shows up with a bad back or a sore leg or arm.

How about the guy with a case of stupidity? If the person is medically cleared for return to duty, there's no problem.

How about the guy that shows up on prescription meds.

Hmm.. Lipitor is a precription med... 800 mg. Iburprofen is a presxription med...Viagra/Levitra/Cialis are prescription meds, Lunesta is a prescription med.. Nasonex is a prescription med... Restasis is a prescription med...

As long as the meds aren't in the opiate family or would cause someone to be impaired, , what's the problem?

How about the guy that shows up about 10% of the time and has no clue.

Ask him for his gear and pager and boot him off the FD.

How about the guy that shows up after 6 cups of coffee.
Regular or decaf? Iced or hot? Dunkie's, Timmy Ho's or Starbucks?

How about the guy that shows up after drinking 4 red bulls. He has wiings.

All are the same as the guy who shows up after 1 or 2 beers.

I'm not talking about drunks, just one or two beers.

Ahh..back to your old form, eh, Trotts/cdevoe/beergod?

In each and ever case above the individual has to know their limits.

Some people wouldn't know what their limit was if it came up and smacked them on the side of the head with a freakin' sledgehammer

They have to put down the hero mentality and ask if they will be a liability on the scene.

They have to use common sense.. shut off the pager and stay at home.

BTW - what is wrong with saying it is OK to have a beer or two after a hard days work?

Nothing.. as long as you turn the pager off and not respond.

[Geinandputitout]

I think the number of drunken driving arrests in the United States clearly demonstrate the number of people that can make good decisions when alcohol is involved.

I've got an idea maybe to raise money for their fire department they could have ignition interlock (breathylizer(sp?)) technology installed on the fire appartus. Maybe they could get some kind of endorsement deal.

NEW ULM Firefighters we use Brand X ignition interlock devices, and you should too. Because we know that you can't always put 10 sober people together to fight a fire!!!!!!!!

Brand X Ignition Interlock Devices endorsed by the New Ulm Fire Department
It's a volunteer thing you wouldn't understand


A t-shirt --
Front - New Ulm Firefighter, I fight what you fear.
Back - Fueled by Budweiser


Maybe they could do High Risk / OWI Insurance--

If we can insure the drunken firefighters of New Ulm we'll definitely write a policy for you.


High Risk Business Insurance
We have insured shipwreck divers, Chinese Coal Miners, Lead Paint Manufacturers, and the New Ulm Fire Department. We can definitely write for you.

[npfd801]

I can have all the beer I want after a run. It's called walking down the hill to the establishment next to firehouse and having one/a couple/a bender.

Trouble is, I need to chose to not walk up the hill if another call comes in. In fact, I've watched the rig leave for the next call because I've had a beer. It really isn't that hard to do.

I all boils down to making the right choice, regardless of being in the station drinking, next door at the bar, having a bender the night before you go on shift to your paid department, etc.

The real issue I have with this is the sheer look of unprofessionalism. Having the beer in the station spits in the face of all of the folks that try their best to be professionals, be it volunteer, career, whatever. I don't care how small your department is, there needs to be some semblance of being a professional organization. Having a tapper in the backroom of the station isn't it.

[Dickey]

Very stupid.

Just asking for trouble. Talk about a backwoods attitude.

Sad. Very sad. One step forward, and eight steps backward.:rolleyes:

[BryanLoader]

1. Particularly a fire service actually petioning city/town council to allow alcohol consumption in a fire station

2. The holier than thou attitude of certain members stating that this obviously shows the difference between "True professionals and those low life vollies" Seems to me there have been several stories regarding alcohol or substance abuse in major professional depts

3. Having a couple of beers after a run when you may well be called out again. It just does not compute. Should never happen and should not be tolerated.

The whole problem as I see it is that the depts, professional, POC and volunteer seem to turn a blind eye to members that may have a problem. If as stated in one news story, a firefighter went in to a structure with over .20 alcohol, somebody kew it and let it happen. If a volunteer shows up at a call and smells of alcohol, immediate suspension and further disciplinary action depending on situation.
Quite simply no booze on the fire scene, in station or on fire ground.

[GodSendRain]

Apples and Oranges here. BJs and ta tas are WAYYY different then responding to emergencies under the influence.
Not to mention the fires and other emergencies are WAYYY different then what you were going to 15 years ago. BTUs released by the plastics found in many new homes are in the 24,000 range, resulting in flashover and rapid fire development much faster then before. We have to be on our toes, watching for rollover and feeling for the heat through our gear. Sorry, but you just can't do that intoxicated.

Well, the example I first intended to use was not strippers in a fire house. I was merely pointing out that stupidity is not limited to either the volunteer or career community, so we shouldn't be painting either with such a broad brush.

[jonnyirons2]

I guess no one here drives after a beer either. 2 beers is really not going to affect the average sized man to a point of loss of physical control, if it does your a two beer queer and you shouldnt be drinking to begin with! In germany up till last year had beer with lunch, right in the main station of the City of Munich. They only stopped it cause they couldnt keep track of who had what. You guys should really just worry about yourselves and not what some 30 member dept in the middle of nowhere wants to do. It has nothing to do with making us look better, I dont care if people have the worst opinion about us possible, I go to work, do my job and come home. Most of us are not trying to win a popularity contest, right george?

[BLSboy]

2 beers is really not going to affect the average sized man to a point of loss of physical control, if it does your a two beer queer and you shouldnt be drinking to begin with!

Yup, learned THAT the hard way. :rolleyes:

Alcohol, and AJ do NOT mix

[minnff]

OK, what do you want to know about the New Ulm Fire Dept from the inside?

First off, They are a good, well trained and equipped department but...

Drinking policies, they have them but don't enforce them, they don't keep track of sober FF or designate sober drivers when drinking. I have been on scene in trucks and in fires with drinkers, no punishment for violating.

They have had booze in the station as far back as anyone can remember, they just a had a recent negative incident (not fire related) that made them FOOLISHLY approach the city counsel to make it "officailly sanctioned" for lack of a better term.

Someone stated the person who got this passed thru the city counsel could have put his skills to better use like career staffing. Beleive it or not the counsel president approached the past chief about this a couple years ago. He turned him down, in MY opionion I think losing the booze played a part in this.

As far as the "I fight what you fear" sponsered by Bud. THis town of about 15,000 has it's own brewery.

[Frmboybuck]

I have no problem with guys kicking back and having a beer after a call....Hell they can have 15 if they'd like. BUT they wont be responding to another call at our firehouse for 8 hours if they do. The station isnt a place for alcohol and the scene definitely isnt. Its quite simple.....If you drink, dont respond

[minnff]

A littel history on the NUFD, they are about a 40 FF department that serves a town of just under 15,000 which includes a large rural area. They are well trained and well equipped with 2 modern stations and about 8 vehicles. The department is about 135 years old.

They HAVE allowed beer and booze in the stations for as long as anyone can remember. The only reason this this went public is because of a recent (not fire related) negative incident, which prompted them to foolishly get "official city counsel approval".

They have drinking policies and are asked "not" to respond if they have been, however these rules are NOT enforced. I have persaonlly witnessed FF respond to calls from the station and from home well beyond the legal limits. They have driven vehicles code to the scene, packed up and entered structure fires and responded to MVA after drinking, sometimes intoxicated. The deptartment heads have turned a blind eye.

One poster mentioned that the individual who talked the counsel into this should put his talents to better use. One of his suggestions was to maybe push for some career FF's. Beleive it or not the Counsel president actually approached a past chief a couple years ago about this and was turned down.
I beleive Booze in the station played a role in this.

Are they a good department, I beleive so. Do they have a problem that needs to be addressed, YES! If you don't think so just read the New Ulm Journal's Sunday 10-21-07 edition. The reporter interviewed some of the city counsel after all the natianal press, some interesting responces.

From the inside.

[RyanEMVFD]

We are supposed to protect the public even if it is from ourselves.

[ameryfd]

I guess no one here drives after a beer either. 2 beers is really not going to affect the average sized man to a point of loss of physical control, if it does your a two beer queer and you shouldnt be drinking to begin with!

I don't.... and the fact that I think you're wacked out is only proven by this statement.

I In germany up till last year had beer with lunch, right in the main station of the City of Munich. They only stopped it cause they couldnt keep track of who had what.

So, it done in Germany, that makes it right? They also drive 100 miles an hour legally on the highway....should we allow that too?
:rolleyes:

dont care if people have the worst opinion about us possible

That, is obvious, and it seems to be the one thing you are succeeding at in this discussion.....

[Firegod343]

Are you kidding....I leave for almost a year, and the first thread I see when I come back is another "Beer in the Station" one.

And what's even better is that johnnyirons2 makes cdevoe sound like a Harvard graduate.

2 beers is really not going to affect the average sized man to a point of loss of physical control, if it does your a two beer queer

The issue at hand is not drunk firefighters, or drinking and driving, or stippers, or volunteers or career, ad nausem.

The concern is the city and fire department advocacy of alcohol in the station. If your agency NEEDS beer to maintain moral and attendance then you have bigger issues at hand.

Perhaps after your drills, instead of a beer you guys can start your AA meetings.

FG

[HotTrotter]

I guess no one here drives after a beer either. 2 beers is really not going to affect the average sized man to a point of loss of physical control, if it does your a two beer queer and you shouldnt be drinking to begin with! In germany up till last year had beer with lunch, right in the main station of the City of Munich. They only stopped it cause they couldnt keep track of who had what. You guys should really just worry about yourselves and not what some 30 member dept in the middle of nowhere wants to do. It has nothing to do with making us look better, I dont care if people have the worst opinion about us possible, I go to work, do my job and come home. Most of us are not trying to win a popularity contest, right george?

well isn't that interesting? Where have I heard that before? It doesn't really matter where you drink your beer as long as you are off duty. The city/department is smart enough to realize it will happen so have a couple right here with the whole gang. It's really not a big deal. :rolleyes:

[FWDbuff]

I guess no one here drives after a beer either. 2 beers is really not going to affect the average sized man to a point of loss of physical control, if it does your a two beer queer and you shouldnt be drinking to begin with! In germany up till last year had beer with lunch, right in the main station of the City of Munich. They only stopped it cause they couldnt keep track of who had what. You guys should really just worry about yourselves and not what some 30 member dept in the middle of nowhere wants to do. It has nothing to do with making us look better, I dont care if people have the worst opinion about us possible, I go to work, do my job and come home. Most of us are not trying to win a popularity contest, right george?

You must work in a certain firehouse on Staten Island.....Hmmmmmmm

[BoxAlarm187]

I took it upon myself to write a letter to the mayor and the members of the New Ulm council about this matter. I just thought I would see what kind of response I might get from them.

Here's a copy of the letter (name removed to save what little anonimity I still have left on the web :D )

Mr. Mayor & Honorable members of the New Ulm City Council:

Good afternoon, I hope that you'll take a few minutes from your busy schedule to review this e-mail and consider some of the points that are contained within.

My name is XXXX, and I serve as a volunteer fire chief in a rural/suburban fire department in Virginia. Through a number of fire-service websites, many of my colleagues and I have been shocked and disappointed to read the ollowing article in your local media: http://www.nujournal.com/news/articles.asp?articleID=9391. For many, many years, fire departments across the nation have worked to rid their fire stations of alcohol, and generally have the backing of the local elected officials to make this happen. When we see that there's a locality that's doing the complete opposite, it causes a great deal of concern to us.

Fire departments, whether paid or volunteer, have a great deal of responsibility to shoulder. The citizens that are served expect, and demand, the best service possible when they call 911. They have no choice as to which fire department responds to their emergency -- they only have the expectation that their problem will be fixed by trained, competent, and courteous firefighters without an odor of alcohol on their breath. The chief of the department, and the elected officials to whom he reports, should consider the legal ramifications of a serious incident (fire department vehicle strikes a citizen en route to a call, or an improper medical procedure is given to a patient) when it's discovered that the persons in question had consumed alcohol prior to the event occurring.

I can show you hundreds, if not thousands, of fire departments in the country that don't need a "cold one" after a call to relax and build camaraderie. The excuse of using the stress of an emergency incident dictating needing a beer afterwards is ridiculous. We're not letting our emergency medical service providers do this after a heart-attack call,
so how do justify the disparity between fire, EMS, and law enforcement?

If a New Ulm police officer or sheriff's deputy responded to an incident or appeared in court with an odor of alcohol on their person, or had consumed a beer because it was deemed acceptable by the city council, how much validity would this officer's arrest record or courtroom testimony bear?

I certainly think that the members of the City Council should re-visit this ordinance, and I'm not alone when I make this statement. I would invite the Council members, and the Mayor also, to comment publicly on this topic in the following thread on the firehouse.com forums:http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=95090 (warning: the preceding thread possibly contains adult language, and does contain name calling of the mayor and council members, with Ms. Weinkauf being the exception).

To Ms. Weinkauf, I applaud your stance on this sensitive matter. To the rest of the Council and to Mayor Albrecht, I implore of you to take another look at your recent decision.

With regards,

XXXX, Fire Chief
XXXX Volunteer Fire Department
XXXX County, VA

And this is the response I got back from one of the council member this morning:
since you are an expert on the character of our 35 volunteers,,, and
their drinking habits,, and our community,, i am expecting a bill,, you
owe our community a apology and especially our volunteer
firefighters!!!!

Daniel Beranek
Investment Officer
Alliance Bank
New Ulm Branch....

I believe that this response starts to give us some insight into the council's decision... :confused:

[Weruj1]

well isnt that a GREAT reply ?.....how dare you "slander" the character of the good firefighters of New Ulm...............cant wait for something bad to happen there. And Firegod ...............welcome back ............NOTHING has changed.

[Weruj1]

maybe you can drink and get a LOAN from Danny Boy there?

[FWDbuff]

I just found this today, unknown date of publication......Beer in firehall decision gets wide attention

By RON LARSEN — Journal Staff Writer
NEW ULM — While local coffee klatches around town digested and dissected news of the City Council’s official approval of firefighters drinking beer in fire station buildings, the news spread almost like a wild fire on the Internet.

Channel 4 (WCCO-TV) in Minneapolis made it one of their promoted headline stories for the 6 o’clock news Friday, and it was the fifth “top story” on its Internet news schedule for that day, as well. Channel 9 also featured the story.

An Internet website for firefighters, www.firehouse.com, obtained permission to publish the newspaper account of the council’s action, and the response was almost instantaneous as veteran firefighters in Massachusetts and Wisconsin wrote the editor to register objections to the council’s action.

A non-profit organization that “provides accident scene safety training to emergency personnel all across North America,” Scene Of The Accident, Inc., emailed an “Open Letter to the City Council of New Ulm, Minnesota” to The Journal, stating: “Please reconsider your bad decision.”

“We are currently organizing a group of citizens that will be watching the activities of your firefighters and calling 911 as soon as any one of them gets behind the wheel of a motor vehicle or one of your fire apparatus. We will also be recording these activities and notifying everyone that your department responds to as to the possibility of inferior care due to alcohol impairment of the responding firefighter,” wrote Todd Hoffman, executive director of Scene Of The Accident, Inc.

However, two council members who were among the majority in the 4-1 vote for allowing alcoholic beverages to be consumed in the fire station buildings and the mayor say they’re not seeing that kind of opposition from their constituents.

“There has been no reaction worthwhile. I mean, people from Massachusetts and Wisconsin, I’m not going to listen to them tell me what we’re supposed to do here in New Ulm,” Council President Dan Beranek said.

“[As far as local reaction,} there is no reaction; nothing changes. I’ve got as much saying what’s the difference if the volunteer fireman gets off work at Kraft at 4 o’clock, stops at the B&L [bar] and has three beers. The fire alarm goes off, and he goes to the fire. What’s different about that, versus whether he had a beer after a meeting at the station?” he continued.

“No, I don’t think the locals are too upset. There are a few, but I guess those are mostly anti-liquor people. That would be my guess.”

“Well, the reaction has been mixed, at least with the people that I have talked to,” said Fourth Ward Councilor Ken RockVam. ‘People have said it was not a wise decision, and other people say, well, it’s been a part of New Ulm’s tradition for a long time. Others, some of them could go either ways. Nobody was really flip about the comments that were made. There were probably more people that were disappointed than people who said it was an OK deal, an OK thing for them to do.”

However, “[it was] somewhat surprising that there was as many people that think it probably wasn’t a good idea.”

Mayor Joel Albrecht dismisses the opposition as being a “tempest in a teapot.”

“Well, [laughing] where was all that discussion two months ago? Or, for the last 130 years? Nobody has said a word for 130 years, haven’t gotten a letter from anybody. There’s been nobody in the community that’s gotten upset or excited or anything, and I don’t know of any problems that we’ve had.”

“[Is there a need] to revisit [the issue]? No. Not at all,” says Beranek.

While maintaining that having the request come from the firefighters themselves weighed heavily in making his decision, RockVam says he would be willing to reconsider the decision, but he notes he hasn’t talked to anyone on the council about it.

“Are we going to revisit this? I don’t know. Maybe we should take another look at it. To reconsider, you should probably be on the prevailing side to bring it back, and I would not be adverse to bringing it back to discuss it further. I don’t have a shut mind on it, OK?”

Ron Larsen can be reached at rlarsen@nujournal.com
.

[FWDbuff]

I wonder if Danny Boy's bank has loaned the fire department any money for vehicles or equipment and what corproate headquarters would think of the members being allowed to consume alcohol, and one of their investment officers condoning the action?

Hmmmmmm I wonder if the fire department's liability and vehicle liability insurance carrier would approve of the members being allowed to consume alcohol?

[Weruj1]

Fascinating !!!!!!!!!! and in case any of you want to look around all this "charm and tradition" or whatever they call it click below:
http://www.ci.new-ulm.mn.us/index.asp?Type=NONE&SEC={FE944474-4B74-4E43-9AB0-19C93CDF537E}

[FWDbuff]

Here is a letter that I just sent to the editor and the reporter from the local newspaper:

To whom it may concern:

Having followed the recent stories regarding the Council of the City of New Ulm's decision to allow alcohol to be consumed in the Fire Station, I must write to you this day and report that I am truly appalled, shocked and dissapointed. My opinion is also shared by the vast majority of firefighters across the United States. We have worked very hard to shed the average citizen's stereotypical view of the "drunken volunteer firefighters sitting at the bar in the fire hall sucking down suds". The New Ulm City Council has allowed the Fire Service in the United States a massive discredit, and has set precedent allowing a reverse lapse in time of 30 years.

In a subsequent article following up your original publication of the story, City Council President Mr. Daniel Baranek was quoted as saying "There has been no reaction worthwhile. I mean, people from Massachusetts and Wisconsin, I’m not going to listen to them tell me what we’re supposed to do here in New Ulm." I challenge Mr. Baranek to view the open forum on firehouse.com (http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=95090) and again advise the thousands of firefighters across the United States who are absolutley repulsed and disgusted by this, and that their "reactions are not worthwhile."

Additionally it has been noted through correspondance posted on Firehouse.com that Mr. Baranek is a banker/investment officer at the New Ulm Branch of Alliance Bank. I wonder, as is in the case of thousands of small town fire departments across the country, if the local bank branch has loaned the fire department any sums of money for vehicle purchases? I wonder if the bank holds title to any of the New Ulm Fire Department's vehicles? I wonder if the bank would approve of (the members charged with driving the vehicles) being allowed to consume alcohol?

I wonder if the Liability Insurance carrier and Vehicle Liability Insurance carrier would approve of members being allowed to consume alcohol? And would the Workmans Comp Carrier pay out any claims on injuries received by members who are injured in the line of duty who have been found to have previously consumed alcohol?

Here is a reply given to a letter dispatched to Mr. Baranek by one of my respected colleagues: "since you are an expert on the character of our 35 volunteers,,, and
their drinking habits,, and our community,, i am expecting a bill,, you owe our community a apology and especially our volunteer firefighters!!!!"

No Mr. Baranek. It is you who owe the Firefighters across the United States of America an apology.

Respectfully submitted,
Mr. XXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXX, Pennsylvania.
A Second generation firefighter with 18 years of service.

[ChiefReason]

Here's the short and quick.
130 years of history; unimpeded by progress!
http://newulm.govoffice.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={C1598F32-E95E-4255-B8B5-FC4C2561E303}
CR

[HotTrotter]

I am shocked that New Ulm council members would through out political correctness and vote with their heads. How dare they say it is OK to have a beer after the job is done!! :rolleyes: This is a disgrace and surely impedes the PC movement. I predict that their will be serious Famine, floods, increasingly more severe hurricanes, more tornadoes, the world will be turned upside down... Say it isn't so!!! This has to be stopped.


Of course I am now compelled to right the New Ulm folks and tell them while it is not any of our business some of us applaud your ability to stand up for what is right!! Now!!! Would someone please pass out the Tea Bags.....

[ChiefReason]

Oh and I shot Mr. Larsen a little fuel for the fire.
CR

[frenchfireball]

alcohol in firehouse=EVIL.

many years ago there was no law about that and we had so crazy stories about alcohol and firefighters.some were so drunk they could not even jump on the firetrucks or drive and they were on duty.they drove but were drunk!a real shame for the whole fire service in France.

now,it is better,we have a law:no alcohol in firehouses,forbidden.if they find alcohol at the firestation,or see people drinking,they are fired.

[BLSboy]

alcohol in firehouse=EVIL.

many years ago there was no law about that and we had so crazy stories about alcohol and firefighters.some were so drunk they could not even jump on the firetrucks or drive and they were on duty.they drove but were drunk!a real shame for the whole fire service in France.

now,it is better,we have a law:no alcohol in firehouses,forbidden.if they find alcohol at the firestation,or see people drinking,they are fired.

The French get it, why cant we?!?!

[frenchfireball]

The French get it, why cant we?!?!

we got it but it is because of "our way of drinking",you know wine here.wine is part of the french culture but it is also a huge problem to handle for many people and in some fire departments,despite the law,there still have problems because of some behaviors.

the law here, is the just the beginning of some important changes and way of thinking,i hope.

[BoxAlarm187]

In response to the letter I posted above, I got this e-mail from the Mayor of New Ulm this morning...

Thank you for your comments and concerns. I would like you to know some historical information that may have had a bearing on the Council’s decision.

There had been beer – at all times - in the stations for the past 130 years. With the action of the Council, beer can ONLY be brought in for special events that are scheduled in advance, the same as all public buildings in the city.

It should also be noted that there are public meetings held in the training room of the main station, as are held at other public buildings.

The Council did not establish new policy, but rather maintained tradition.


Joel T. Albrecht
Mayor, City of New Ulm
100 North Broadway
New Ulm, MN 56073


This paints a slightly different picture of the situation....

[BLSboy]

So the beer is for social events only, not random consumption?

Still not the best light for us, but sure is a HELL of a lot better!

[masterFF]

BTW - what is wrong with saying it is OK to have a beer or two after a hard days work?

AFTER is the key. Work doesn't stop until you leave the fire station.

[Bones42]

Additionally it has been noted through correspondance posted on Firehouse.com that Mr. Baranek is a banker/investment officer at the New Ulm Branch of Alliance Bank. I wonder, as is in the case of thousands of small town fire departments across the country, if the local bank branch has loaned the fire department any sums of money for vehicle purchases? I wonder if the bank holds title to any of the New Ulm Fire Department's vehicles? I wonder if the bank would approve of (the members charged with driving the vehicles) being allowed to consume alcohol? Ya know, I really don't think any of this made up conspiracy theory belongs anywhere in your statement. Stick with the facts. Gives you more credit.

[masterFF]

You guys should really just worry about yourselves and not what some 30 member dept in the middle of nowhere wants to do. It has nothing to do with making us look better, I dont care if people have the worst opinion about us possible, I go to work, do my job and come home.

Just remember that John Q. Public paints with the broadest brush you can find at home dept. And I wonder if any volunteers across the nation get any money from John Q. I wonder what John's attitude will be toward a fund drive if he thinks that his money is going to stock the bar. Ahh-nevermind. you are right-it has no effect on any of us.

[BoxAlarm187]

So the beer is for social events only, not random consumption?

Well, I thought the same thing, until Council President Beranek says in the above media article: “[As far as local reaction,} there is no reaction; nothing changes. I’ve got as much saying what’s the difference if the volunteer fireman gets off work at Kraft at 4 o’clock, stops at the B&L [bar] and has three beers. The fire alarm goes off, and he goes to the fire. What’s different about that, versus whether he had a beer after a meeting at the station?” he continued.

It sounds like the Mayor and Mr. Beranek have different interpreations of this vote. Moreso, I think they're being pretty close-minded about the issue.

As long as the Council President thinks it's okay to have three beers at the local bar, then respond to an incident, why would we expect him to care if there's beer being consumed in the station?

[Firegod343]

The ignorance shown by this city council, and a couple of posters, present a good reason why many still considered us a blue collar occupation and not a professional one.

By allowing alcohol to be consumed in the station, the city is not just allowing drinking, it's encouraging it. Think for a moment....if you had a place to go drink that was private and exclusive to just you and your friends, and the beer was either free or cheap, wouldn't you go there? And the huge irony is that over the last 130 years it was thought of as a way of keeping firefighters hanging around the station for the next call, but now they can't (or shouldn't) be responding after they drink.

I am the lead fire instructor for the local fire academy. To do our live fire training we must travel 70 miles and stay in a hotel for 3 nights. Before I took over as lead instructor there were all sorts of problems with the recruits, everything from fights, sexual harrassment, to driving issues, all related to alcohol. The reason it was allowed was because it was towards the end of their academy and they were "just blowing off steam."

When I took over 4 years ago I had only one rule....absolutely no alcohol during the 4 days we are there (that includes after-hours). I don't have the power to fire anyone, but I can send them home, which means they don't finish the academy, which means they don't have a job. In 4 years.....not one problem.

If you want a beer, go to a tavern. Those of you from New Ulm.....do you want world wide respect? Then take a stand, and go to the city council to get this rule changed, because until you do you're a joke in the eyes of the fire service.

FG

[HotTrotter]

Just remember that John Q. Public paints with the broadest brush you can find at home dept. And I wonder if any volunteers across the nation get any money from John Q. I wonder what John's attitude will be toward a fund drive if he thinks that his money is going to stock the bar. Ahh-nevermind. you are right-it has no effect on any of us.

We have actually had John Q bring a couple of 30 packs by after the fire. And we have had John Q donate $100 and say it is for beer for the clubhouse. They have specifically said they don't want it spent on equipment.

And I don't have to leave the station to decide when I am off duty. I'm off duty when I say I am off duty.

I guess my biggest problem is we tend to focus on alcohol. Why do we accept all of the other mind and body altering substances that are poured into the human body. Let alone ones on physical and medical problems that creep up on them?

[Steamin441]

First of all, what do the French know about beer? Except what the Germans brought with them.

If I could write the check I'd be sending a couple of dozen Bud trucks to SoCal right now. Those guys are gonna be very thirsty.



P.S. To the CFD. Please do what you can to save my brothers house in Carlsbad. He and his family evacuated around lunchtime.

[BoxAlarm187]

I guess my biggest problem is we tend to focus on alcohol. Why do we accept all of the other mind and body altering substances that are poured into the human body.

Why focus on alcohol? Becuase what other legal substance can have such a quick affect on the body which causes impaired judgement? And people like you are saying that it's not a bad thing. THAT's why we keep harping on this seemingly "harmless" behavior.

[CaptainGonzo]

First of all, what do the French know about beer? Except what the Germans brought with them.

Actually, quite a lot...
France has rightly enjoyed the reputation as the gourmet capital of the world and its huge selection of alcoholic drinks is internationally famous. However, despite the fame of its wines, fortified wines, spirits and liqueurs outside its borders, domestically the French - especially the younger generations - prefer to drink beer when socialising away from their homes.

Gone are the days when only a minority of French would be seen drinking beer in bars. Perhaps it is a reaction to the tightening up of drink/drive laws, or perhaps it is due to the good value for money offered by beer; the fact is that, after 50 years of decline, brewing and beer appreciation in France is now undergoing a huge surge of interest.

At the start of the 20th century there were well over 1,000 breweries in France, but a series of events and trends between 1900 to 1950 had a major impact on the industry resulting in many bankruptcies, closures and mergers. Rural depopulation, two World Wars (both of which saw parts of France under occupation by the Germans) and lack of investment capital to replace old brewplant with equipment capable of brewing the 'trendy' pilsener-type beers of the 60s and 70s left the country with a small collection of huge beer combines. A handful of smaller regional breweries, some family-owned, managed to struggle through the hard times and were eventually joined by the first of a new generation of special beer brewers which started to appear in the late 70s.

The first of these special beer producers were Castelain (which make the Ch'ti beers) and La Choulette, both in the Nord/Pas-de-Calais region. Thankfully they decided not to try to compete with the likes of Kronenbourg and Heineken by making pilsener-type beers, preferring instead to brew beer with ale yeasts. This original trailblazing encouraged others to take the brave step to open - and even gave some breweries which had long been closed to start brewing again. The beers made in this region, although many have now adopted the production process, undergo a period of "garding" (or lagering, that is a secondary fermentation at very low temperatures just above 0°C) which have given rise to the term "bières de garde" to describe their products.

By the mid-1980s there were two distinct brewing regions - Nord/Pas-de-Calais and Alsace, the latter preferring to continue brewing beer with bottom fermenting yeasts in the broad German style. It was also at this time that the provinces started to wake up to the burgeoning national beer revolution with the opening of Deux Rivières in Brittany and the first of the 3 Brasseurs chain of brewpubs in Lille.

The French beer revival is now in full flow to the point that around 15 breweries opened in 2000, supplementing the 18 that opened the previous year, with a wide variety of beer styles and brewing techniques. Now it is possible to drink British-style real ale, German-style weizenbier, Belgian-style witbier and spiced beer along with the traditional Alsace and bière de garde styles. Even the UK-owned Firkin pub chain has three pubs in Paris, although at present only one brews beer on site. A handful of tiny rural breweries have found the trend towards organic produce in France a real benefit with a ready market for organically-accredited beers.

Although it is easy to point out that almost half of all the breweries of France are in the highly populated and quite industrial regions of Nord/Pas-de-Calais and Alsace/Lorraine, the current trend is for new breweries to open in the rural provinces. Brittany is becoming a brewing centre of its own with 14 breweries operating today, but the rest are scattered thinly around this huge country. With the tendency for information to be only sporadically available and because many new breweries will only be operating within a small radius from their brewery, we greatly appreciate any news and comment from readers and, if we use the information on the website, we will credit the source.

This website is intended to help beer drinkers get the most out of their visit to France or to offer information on products available for drinkers to sample the beers at home or in a speciality beer bar. The French Beer News page will give details of any forthcoming events we are aware of and any amendmens to previously published information. You can get your own update to "The Beers of France" from the "Update" link


If I could write the check I'd be sending a couple of dozen Bud trucks to SoCal right now. Those guys are gonna be very thirsty.

I will have to disagree...Bud is "beer" in name only ( too bland, and it gives me a splitting heache if I have more than one...)

If you really want to assuage the Brothers' thirst (off duty, of course), spring for Sam Adams! :cool: :D



P.S. To the CFD. Please do what you can to save my brothers house in Carlsbad. He and his family evacuated around lunchtime.

I'm sure they will do their best under extenuating circumstances.

[masterFF]

And I don't have to leave the station to decide when I am off duty. I'm off duty when I say I am off duty.

What if you have a walk up? I couldn't look the person in the eye and say that I was "off-duty" at the firehouse, could you?

[frenchfireball]

thanks Captain Gonzo for the beer's infos in France.wow,very interesting post!!!and yeah,young here,teens" love" drinking beers.

but i'm off topic.

[HotTrotter]

Why focus on alcohol? Becuase what other legal substance can have such a quick affect on the body which causes impaired judgement? And people like you are saying that it's not a bad thing. THAT's why we keep harping on this seemingly "harmless" behavior.

Ibuprofen, Lunesta, Viagara :D , Aspirin, sudafed, carious cold medicines, Various herbs, caffeine, anything with a label that says may cause drowsiness, anything with a label that says do not operate machinery, benadryl , sugar, turkey (makes you sleepy). And there are many more. And that is just the substances you put into your body. That doesn't even talk to folks with medical and physical ailments.

[Steamin441]

Are you some kind of MORON, or do you just play one in real life?:confused:
That person should be REMOVED from the fire ground immediatly, suspended for an indefinate amount of time, (see FOREVER), and if he DROVE to the call and or station, he should be arrested for DUI.

Have you ever heard of Andee Huber, or have you been living under a rock, you moron?:mad:

You forgot to capitalize ' MORON ' at the end.

[BLSboy]

You forgot to capitalize ' MORON ' at the end.

Duly noted, and corrected. :cool:

[Steamin441]

Actually, quite a lot...




I will have to disagree...Bud is "beer" in name only ( too bland, and it gives me a splitting heache if I have more than one...)

If you really want to assuage the Brothers' thirst (off duty, of course), spring for Sam Adams! :cool: :D





I'm sure they will do their best under extenuating circumstances.

At least he's not laid up at the Beverly Wilshire like some of the poor folk in Malibu. They went in and scooped up all the pets in his neighborhood they could get to.

I'll stand by the Bud but Greenies still rule in Socal.

[BoxAlarm187]

Ibuprofen, Lunesta, Viagara :D , Aspirin, sudafed, carious cold medicines, Various herbs, caffeine, anything with a label that says may cause drowsiness, anything with a label that says do not operate machinery, benadryl , sugar, turkey (makes you sleepy).

Um, yea, Viagara and triptophan have caused my department members all kinds of problems while operating at fire scenes. :rolleyes:

Look, I know you're playing devil's advocate here, but please be a little more realistic in your assertations about the "substances" that are going to affect our brother and sister firefighters....

[edge1317]

Besides I believe Viagra may help at the scene you know how you can use halligan or an axe handle to extend your search area......same line of thinking!:D

[ameryfd]

since you are an expert on the character of our 35 volunteers,,, and
their drinking habits,, and our community,, i am expecting a bill,, you
owe our community a apology and especially our volunteer
firefighters!!!!

Daniel Beranek
Investment Officer
Alliance Bank
New Ulm Branch....




Two wild speculations....

#1) Wanna bet that Mr. Beranek is a member of the FD?

#2) Could Danny boy and johnnyirons be one and the same?

[thlcsar]

I wonder if Alliance knows that one of their "Investment Officers" represents the company in such a fine light?

[RyanEMVFD]

Ibuprofen, Lunesta, Viagara :D , Aspirin, sudafed, carious cold medicines, Various herbs, caffeine, anything with a label that says may cause drowsiness, anything with a label that says do not operate machinery, benadryl , sugar, turkey (makes you sleepy). And there are many more. And that is just the substances you put into your body. That doesn't even talk to folks with medical and physical ailments.

Dammit, that's why the coffee makes me fall asleep. It causes drowsiness. I'm going to sue Starbacks for this.

[HotTrotter]

Dammit, that's why the coffee makes me fall asleep. It causes drowsiness. I'm going to sue Starbacks for this.

Source Caffeine (http://www.dietitian.com/caffeine.html)

Symptoms of too much caffeine (headache, tremor, nervousness, irritability, increased sensitivity), results from an intake of 200 to 500 milligrams of caffeine daily (two to six cups of coffee or three to eight cups of tea). Depending on the size of your thermos, you may be drinking six cups just at work. In addition, how much coffee do you drink when you are not at work?

Next, regarding enhancement of sports or exercise physiology, true that it enhances burning of fat, but my experience has been that the over stimulation (say from a cup o' coffee or worse still from a power-drink, like black booster, consumed about 30 min before exercise) is likely to cause more injuries from "Superman" (or "Superwoman") effect. You feel you can push much more than what you would normally (ought to be) training with!!

Looks like a cup of coffee is just as dangerous as one beer. And if someone were to drink 6 cups of either they too would be just a dangerous. I don't want the drunk going in with me and I also don't want the guy who id bouncing off the walls fro ma caffeine high going in with me either.

Anyone with the least bit of medical training realizes all of these substances and drugs have ill-effects and side effects.

[voyager9]

Looks like a cup of coffee is just as dangerous as one beer. And if someone were to drink 6 cups of either they too would be just a dangerous. I don't want the drunk going in with me and I also don't want the guy who id bouncing off the walls fro ma caffeine high going in with me either.


You've got to be fracking kidding me.


Symptoms of too much caffeine (headache, tremor, nervousness, irritability, increased sensitivity),


It sounds like the same symptoms as reading your posts!

[ElectricHoser]

The New Ulm Journal (http://www.nujournal.com) is lit up with letters to the editor and other editorial articles....

http://www.nujournal.com/include/articles.asp?articleID=9451

Worthy of respect

THUMBS UP: The issue of beer being allowed in New Ulm fire stations has drawn a lot of attention, but let’s make one thing clear. No one at The Journal or anywhere else has anything but good to say about the firefighters and the work they do. We may disagree with the idea of allowing drinking on city property, but we hold the Fire Department members in the highest regard for their dedication and service.http://www.nujournal.com/include/articles.asp?articleID=9454

Setting fire service back 50 years

TO THE EDITOR: I just read the article on Firehouse.com regarding New Ulm’s City Council approving alcohol in the fire station. I am impressed that, with a single vote, City Manager Brian Gramentz, Mayor Joel Albrecht, and the Council succeeded in setting the fire service back 50 years.

As a Battalion Chief in a major metropolitan department with over 25 years experience, I am dumbfounded and amazed. I am now thinking about moving to New Ulm because if I have a car accident, house fire, or any other event requiring the fire department and even smell beer on someone’s breath, I will OWN the city. The members of that department better be perfect, because they will be scrutinized at every moment and operating under the assumption that they have been drinking.

I have been reading forum comments on Firehouse.com and the New Ulm Fire Department can take great pride in knowing that they have elevated themselves to a national laughing stock.

“‘The official stance of the department is that the individual is the best judge of when you’re obviously intoxicated,’ said Scott Windschitl, president of the New Ulm Fire Department Relief Association.” I wonder how many car accidents this department has responded to involving “individuals” who felt the same way!!

BRIAN GOSS

Grand Rapids, MIhttp://www.nujournal.com/include/articles.asp?articleID=9456

Proud of our volunteer firefighters!!!

TO THE EDITOR: I have a VERY personal connection to our local Fire Department and our VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS!

Having had a volunteer firefighter live in my home was an honor and yet at times quite nerve wracking when her pager would go off at 3 a.m. and you hear her leave, not knowing what she will encounter in the middle of the night. Perhaps an accident or someone’s home engulfed in flames. Do you get back to sleep? NO! You lie awake and pray they (our volunteers) come home safely!

So why so much commotion over them having alcohol at the station? I for one know many of our volunteers personally and know for a FACT they DO NOT abuse the situation.

Perhaps we should have a fully staffed firestation, with several firefighters on the payroll. Then we could complain about the expense of fighting a fire!

I have yet to hear anyone complain when our VOLUNTEERS save a life or a home! But yet some get “all bent out of shape” over a beer after a meeting or an All Night Fire/Rescue call. These LOCAL VOLUNTEERS deserve a BREAK and perhaps a little more support from this community, instead of all the criticism over this issue.

Very proud of my daughter, brother & friends of our VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT!

PAM MACK

New Ulmhttp://www.nujournal.com/include/articles.asp?articleID=9508

Trust in the Fire Dept. leadership

TO THE EDITOR: While I’m certain that all the people who are upset about the city council’s decision to allow the consumption of beer in the city’s fire stations are well intentioned, I think that they are missing a few important points. First, we have to trust that the leaders of the fire companies will not allow anyone who is not physically or emotionally capable of doing their job to endanger either other firefighters or the public. One of the jobs of the officers from lieutenant on up to chief is to insure that everyone involved in an emergency situation are safe. If a firefighter arrives on the scene and for whatever reason is unable to do their job, I would expect that person to be sent home or at least not allowed to endanger themself or others. Fellow firefighters also have the duty to watch out for their buddy that that includes not allowing a comrade to become involved in a dangerous situation if impaired.

Secondly, volunteer firefighters are subject to call 24 hours a day. As the son of a New Ulm volunteer fireman and having an uncle in Mankato’s “paid” department and a brother in Duluth’s “paid” department, I am familiar with the stresses on firefighters and their families, both volunteer and paid. While the paid firefighters usually work scheduled shifts and have some time off duty except in the case of really bad fires, volunteers have no such down time. If people are concerned about a firefighter having consumed alcohol and then reporting to a fire, the only real way to eliminate this worry is to have volunteer firefighters who never consume alcohol, never take over-the-counter medication that warns a person not to drive or operate heavy machinery, never take prescription medication that might impair their judgement, never have emotional issues due to family or work problems, and so on. All of these and many more could cause a firefighter to not make the correct decision at a critical moment.

Finally, I think that there are really two major points under discussion here and they seem to be getting mixed up. First is the fitness of a firefighter for duty. That we need to leave to the leaders in the fire department on the scene at the time. None of the rest of us are qualified to make that judgement. The other point is the consumption of alcohol on city property. The city council and the mayor were elected to make decisions for us. If residents of the city do not agree with those decisions, the councilors and the mayor are available to listen to a citizen’s concerns. I have never been turned down by either Mayor Albrecht nor any councilor when I asked to discuss city business with them. They will probably be more receptive to citizen complaints if approached directly, rather than through the media.

I believe that the decision made by the council was the correct one. To not trust the leadership of the fire department and pass an ordinance rejecting the request of the fire department would in effect be just one more governmental rule prohibiting something the “might” happen. If a firefighter shows up at a fire under the influence of anything, alcohol or cold medicine, it’s the chief’s job first to deal with that firefighter, not the council’s, not the mayor’s, not yours, and not mine.

TOM EDWARDS

New Ulmhttp://www.nujournal.com/include/articles.asp?articleID=9509

Give firefighters a break

TO THE EDITOR: Enough of the bashing of the New Ulm Fire Dept. and the New Ulm City Council already!

The recent letters to the editor regarding beer in the firehouse range from slightly comical to absolutely and utterly ridiculous! Before I go any further, let me tell you that I am not a volunteer fire fighter nor am I in any way involved with the department. However, I feel the need to respond to the “outcry” from the citizens of New Ulm, and of those nationwide.

First, the N.U.F.D. is a volunteer group, meaning that the firestation isn’t staffed 24/7. These guys don’t live in the station, and thus, aren’t hanging out there drinking beer while waiting for a call to come in.

Second, when their pagers go off, and they race from home or work to the firestation with their 4-way flashers on, they aren’t going to tap a keg first and sit around drinking beer before they roll the trucks out of the garage!

As I understand, according to the original article in The Journal, the fire department requested having beeravailable for after a meeting and after a fire call, when they are back in the station, washing their trucks and cleaning up. This is quite different than going out to an accident scene or fire call while drunk!

What would be the difference if the firemen had a beer at a downtown bar after they were finished with a call, or had a beer in the station? Should all volunteer firemen be banned from entering downtown bars? How about when they are at home. Is beer O.K. then? What if they are at a wedding reception, having a glass of champagne, and their pager goes off. How about at the firemen’s dance? Give them a break!

Finally, what scares me most is the comment made by Amanda Nosbush in her editorial. Coming from a paid professional in the medical field, she says, and I quote, “...you better think twice about us saving your life”. Hmmm. Does that mean that if I have done anything to upset them, they will let me die at an accident scene or on the operating table?

Das Bier eines Schell für die Feuerwehrm-nner, Prost!

JAMIE MILBRETT

New Ulmhttp://www.nujournal.com/include/articles.asp?articleID=9394

City-sanctioned beer

We know that fighting fires can be hot, thirsty work. We know that firefighters can see harrowing things when called to a fire or accident that most of us would not want to see, and that they can use a chance to “decompress” after returning to the station. We know that camaraderie and morale are important elements in an organization where close teamwork can mean the difference between life and death.

But still, we think the New Ulm City Council made an unfortunate decision Tuesday when it granted the city’s volunteer fire department permission to drink beer in the fire hall after a fire call or other department function. While we are sure all the members of the department are mature, responsible people who would not abuse the privilege, there remains a potential for abuse and for trouble.

City-sanctioned drinking could expose the city to liability in case of an accident during a fire call. A firefighter could be sitting at home having a beer while watching a football game when a call comes and the city would probably not be held liable. But if the firefighter had been drinking at the fire hall, and something unfortunate happens, the city could be considered liable.

The city council’s decision puts the onus on the fire department’s leaders to develop some solid guidelines and to monitor the consumption of beer by the department’s members. We hope there will be no problems. If there are, however, the city’s permission can be easily rescinded.http://www.nujournal.com/include/articles.asp?articleID=9413

Why bring alcohol into emergency situation?

TO THE EDITOR: It’s always good to know that our First Responders might be impaired the next time they get a call. After all that is what we decided on Tuesday night by a 4 to 1 vote to allow alcohol back into our fire stations. I don’t think that our firefighters need to be sitting around having a “brewsky” when there job demands them to be responsible and be able to operate equipment without a “jag” on.

Now don’t get me wrong here, getting intoxicated AT the fire station and COMING to the fire station intoxicated are two different events. You have the right to do what you want on your own time, but when you bring those events into a public city building I think the line needs to be drawn. Mr. Gramentz suggested that “they’re leaving it up to the individual to determine”, well whatcha going to do when the individual doesn’t know how to determine what is too much and everyone around him keeps telling him “Ahh, just have one more.” You don’t see our police officers being able to have beer in their kitchen at the New Ulm Law Enforcement Center. They have responsibilities just like firefighters do, but somehow we seem to separate them when they are both working for the same cause, to HELP!

This poor decision shows what is more important to us as adults, either being responsible and ready to respond without alcohol on your breath or having a responder do something stupid because he/she was drinking 30 minutes before the call. Is it really that important to have beer in the kitchen of the New Ulm Volunteer Fire Department? I didn’t think so.

I believe anytime you bring alcohol into an environment or situation the negatives automatically outweigh the positives, its common sense. How many situations involving alcohol have positive outcomes? DWI, DUI. What makes it different for a firefighter to be able to drink and drive then a person who is not a firefighter?

So, those of you who disagree with me, that’s fine. After all I am just a 20-year-old kid going to college, what do I know, right? I have seen what alcohol does to a person, I know what alcohol does to a person’s life. If you look at it like this, firefighters are a positive thought, seeing fire trucks at a burning building is a positive thought, being a firefighter is a positive thought, you are there to help people, so why bring such a negative action of allowing alcohol into the New Ulm Fire Station? And don’t tell me because all their doing is having ONE.

BRANDON MEYER

St. Cloud State Universityhttp://www.nujournal.com/include/articles.asp?articleID=9473

Another fire chief protests decision

TO THE EDITOR: I find the decision by the City Council of New Ulm to encourage alcohol consumption by the fire department to be incomprehensible. As a Fire Chief my number one priority is keeping my people safe so that everybody goes home after an emergency. In our department the consumption of one beer prevents you from responding to any emergency call. Any violation of the SOP is grounds for immediate suspension.

Apparently news doesn’t reach Minnesota as quickly as the rest of the country and I reference the recent autopsy findings of the Boston firefighters killed at a fire that one was legally drunk. This is a decision that flies in the face of common sense. For the families of the firefighters in New Ulm I can only hope that the public outcry will bring them to their senses. Firefighters are being killed at a record rate this year in the US and they are allowing encouraging alcohol consumption. Unbelievable!!

GEORGE TURNER

Chief

West Whiteland Fire Co.

Exton, PA

[minnff]

Danny Beranek is NOT a New ULm Firefighter.

[masterFF]

If anyone knows how to start one of those online petition things, now might be a good time. At least it can't hurt.

[LaFireEducator]

A petition?

A national petition regarding a local issue in a small MN town? Ya, that's one hell of a good idea.

This issue has nothing to do with anyone outside of New Ulm, MN. The fact that I see folks on this forum trying to stick thier noses into a local issue makes me really angry.

Before you attack me (which will happen anyway I'm sure) I don't beleive firefighters should show up for calls after drinking. But the reality here is that we have no idea of the details. Is this bar primarily for social events as many small towns use the fire hall as a rented social hall? Is there a one-beer limit after runs like there was in a former department of mine? Are there no-call rules for guys who have been in the bar?

The fact is we are sitting here judging a department without all the facts. A volunteer department is different from a career department. A New Ulm MN has the right to run thier department in thier way without getting lambasted on a national forum.

[BoxAlarm187]

LaFire,

You did notice the Council President's assertation that drinking in the FD is no different than the members having "3 beers" at the local bar and then responding? If he's going to condone having that much to drink at the local watering hole, why do we think any different about thier activities at the fire hall?

It's not that we're trying to "bust thier stones" about this, it's showing them how the rest of the world is trying to do business.

[HotTrotter]

This whole thread amazes me. It's not our business to tell other departments how to run themselves, yet, we want to tell them they can't have beer!!!! How come no one wants to address the real issues? Every time this topic comes up I realize what a real joke these forums are. It's funny, it used to bug me when I would get banned, my thoughts were "How dare they silence my opinions" I'm trying to bring some reason and logic into play, you might not agree with it, but I want the fire service to be safer and more efficient. Safer is doable, efficient is almost impossible given that most fire departments are government agencies. Government agencies by their very nature are bloated and inefficient. And why shouldn't they be. There is little incentive to try to be more efficient. They don't have to worry about the bottom line, just raise taxes.

I personally don't care who drinks what where. Just don't show up at the scene with you head all on sideways be it a caffeine high, a sugar high, an alcohol high, or any other kind of high.

I love the German work ethic. Show up to work, pull out the beer, and get to it.

[BoxAlarm187]

This whole thread amazes me. It's not our business to tell other departments how to run themselves...

Then why the constant banter between you and FFFred on the NIMS/ICS thread...?

[HotTrotter]

Then why the constant banter between you and FFFred on the NIMS/ICS thread...?

Because NIMS/ICS is a National issue that affects us all. We all need to be in the same page when responding to big disasters such as Katrina, the wild fires, the ice storms, 9-11, and so on.

What someone does in the firehouse out in th middle of Wisconsin is really of no concern. What is a concern is can you play and work with the rest of us when the time comes.

[FWDbuff]

I want the fire service to be safer and more efficient.

And what about seatbelts?

[ChicagoFF]

Because NIMS/ICS is a National issue that affects us all. We all need to be in the same page when responding to big disasters such as Katrina, the wild fires, the ice storms, 9-11, and so on.

What someone does in the firehouse out in th middle of Wisconsin is really of no concern. What is a concern is can you play and work with the rest of us when the time comes.Don't be such a self important stroke! Nobody needs you to help at FDNY. They also don't need Chicagos help. You will never work with me. I will never work with FFFRED. George will never work with lafireeducator. If you need to think you are going to be needed at some emergency in Chicago and thats what you want to tell the girls at the bar, fine. BUT IT"S NOT TRUE! You have zero need to know how we put fires out here - zero! You will never never need to "play or work with the rest of us". God, get over yourself already!