Vehicle grant Questions

[cctrtlt2]

Assuming the Vehicle grant is an option next year, we will be going for that. I have a few questions as I want to be as clued in as possible. I have a few questions that can be hopefully answered and am also looking for some input into the strategy that I am looking to go with. Take a look and see if you can make some observation, as always all answers area welcomed, thanks.

1. first thing is I am going to a Seminar in Jan 08 near Rochester NY, sounds like it will be money well spent.

2. My strategy is that we currently have two trucks that we want to replace with one new one. One is our front line attack engine and is 23 years old, the second ourt front line supply truck is 36 years old. Hopefully the thought of consolidation is a winner in the application.

3. The two trucks have seating for seven combined, five on one ( two upfront and three in an open rear seat) and the other is a two man cab. Would going for a six man custom be out of line in this request.

4. Both trucks carry 1000 gallons of water, we would want to replace that total on the new truck with at least 1000 if not more, and still keep it a single axle truck.

5. In the grant application can you request money for loose equipment on the truck such as air packs and hose/nozzles.?

6. Neither truck has on board foam system, but both carry inductors, would it be out of line to ask for an on boad system on the new truck.

Thanks for reading, I know that it is early with AFG07 still under way, but I want to get a start on AFG 08 to be better prepped.

[BC79er]

1) Yes, and it probably will be the only place Kurt's knack for bringing snowstorms won't matter. :) I'll be in Plattsburgh teaching classes on the 17th and 18th, hopefully winter doesn't come early....

2) True.

3) Not out of line for staffing but might drive price up.

4) No biggie

5) $30k limit

6) Nope, highly encouraged for tactical considerations.

[Greenacres2]

If you propose the 2 fer 1 swap and they say yes, you will have to remove both vehicles from the fire service (especially if you use firefighter safety as part of the reasoning). No backing out. So here's the question...can you get by with just one truck? Will you lose productivity and flexibility??

If the 5 man with the open cab (great safety selling point) is the 36 yer old truck, AND you have call volume, AND you don't have 3 other newer vehicles messing up your average age...i think you might score almost as well just trying to replace the open cab unit.

Brian's answers are a start, but without seeing the whole picture none of us can really help as much as we'd like.

earl

[ktb9780]

cctrtlt2 all good advice from both of my esteemed and learned colleagues and we can let the rest of the class hash that out for more insight during the seminar. You are on the right track. See you in Bushnells Basin ;)

[BC79er]

If you propose the 2 fer 1 swap and they say yes, you will have to remove both vehicles from the fire service (especially if you use firefighter safety as part of the reasoning). No backing out. So here's the question...can you get by with just one truck? Will you lose productivity and flexibility??

Only if you claim that they are unsafe and should be taken out of service. If only one of them needs to come out of service then you don't have to take both out. Replacing functionality of two with one lessens the number of D/Os needed to get X amount of tactical gear to the scene. If they aren't unsafe, keep them as reserve. The one you claim that has to be taken off the road must be, Earl is right about that. And if you do claim both then both have to come out, and never be used by anyone for fire service use again. Can't sell it to the neighbors for matching funds.

[onebugle]

First off, kudo's for planning early for the 2008 grant cycle and attending a seminar for the finer points. :)

A 2:1 replacement will look good in regards to the cost vs. benefit analysis. A new vehicle will provide future savings on fuel, maintenance, insurance etc.

As Earl pointed out we do not have a complete picture of your department in regards to other apparatus etc. My concern is that you are reducing your capabilities. You have one vehicle as attack and the other supply. With one vehicle, is the department planning on doing both at the same time or is there another plan in the works; such as automatic aid?

You will reduce your initial water supply by 50%. Will this be an issue and how will it be addressed?

Having a 1000 gallon tank with a six man cab on a single axle will not be a problem. With a poly tank you should be able to increase the amount of water and still be a single axle. The issue will come again if the 2 pieces of apparatus perform other duties that require carrying different equipment such as the Jaws of Life etc. The more equipment you need to place on a single piece of apparatus to perform the duties of 2 pieces of apparatus, the greater the chance that it will have to be a tandem axle.

[cctrtlt2]

Thanks for the replies so far. A litle more background on my department for those that are willing to place input. My department is classified as Rural by standards. Our population in about 1800 in our first due area. For call volume we have been around 425-500 calls per year, mostly EMS as most departments are. We are 100% volunteer.

trucks:
1. frontline engine 22 years old, five man cab, the three on the rearare the open rear bench seat.. 1250 gpm, 1000 tank
2. 109' Ladder, 10 years old, four man custon, 2000gpm 500 tabk
3. main supply truck is 36 years old, two man cab, 1000gpm, 1000 tank
4. panel van as a rescue ( soon to be replaced)
5. EMS fly car

The 36 year old truck is a good pumping truck, just falling apart, difficult to drive and repair. It will neer see life as an engine again. However the water department wants it for pumping Sewer intakes.

The frontline 22 year old is a goodtruck, and will be sold away, as it is not unsafe to drive.

[LVFD301]

Thanks for the replies so far. A litle more background on my department for those that are willing to place input. My department is classified as Rural by standards. Our population in about 1800 in our first due area. For call volume we have been around 425-500 calls per year, mostly EMS as most departments are. We are 100% volunteer.




I am sure that there is a reason for the above, population of 1800
yet 425 - 500 calls a year. With most of them being EMS and not mutual
aid, the following come to mind,

1. You live in a leper colony
2. VERY tourist area. It would have to be pretty extreme though.

I am leaning towards number 1....

My point is, this is something that if it caught my eye, it will catch
FEMA's eyes. You may want to take pains to qualify exactly what the
situation is on your grant application.

[LFD1MICHAEL]

Maybe he forgot a zero?

See you in Rochester!

[cctrtlt2]

The numbers are correct, but you were right in number 2. We are in a high tourist area of western New York. We run about a 130-150 ALS assist EMS calls to our neighboring districts, and also take care of our own calls. The Village where we are is the County Seat for county goverment and our daytime population goes up signifigantly, as well as the county jail population figuring in their. No lepers that I am aware of.

The call break down is very typical of our area, where most of what we do falls into this order:1. EMS, 2 MVA's, 3. Fire Alarms and Calls, 4 Serive calls.

Thaks for the input, all will be used for this upcoming grant.

[LVFD301]

The numbers are correct, but you were right in number 2. We are in a high tourist area of western New York. We run about a 130-150 ALS assist EMS calls to our neighboring districts, and also take care of our own calls. The Village where we are is the County Seat for county goverment and our daytime population goes up signifigantly, as well as the county jail population figuring in their. No lepers that I am aware of.

The call break down is very typical of our area, where most of what we do falls into this order:1. EMS, 2 MVA's, 3. Fire Alarms and Calls, 4 Serive calls.

Thaks for the input, all will be used for this upcoming grant.

Makes sense - just make sure it makes sense to FEMA.

Can you drop me an email? May have something that can help you up there. bbowers@mozarks.com