Monster Grants

[JD1234]

Looking over the list of grant awards, a couple stand out.

Hartford, CT and Springfield, MA, $750,000 for vehicle. Is this for a ladder tower?

Newport News, VA and Lugoff, SC, PPE grants exceeding $650,000.00.

Kurt, Brian, Earl and others, ever won one this big??

[Greenacres2]

Personally, not even in aggregate. Yet. Getting close, but i've only done one app outside my home department. Kurt hit for a 7 digit home run AFG regional in Feb, 2006. I'm more of a singles hitter.

earl (and not a guru!!)

[BC79er]

I've hit a pile of $1mil+ regionals, few trucks in that price range, just has to be the right app for the right department. Still have some waiting for this year too. Newport News was equipment, could be vehicle exhaust. Lugoff doesn't seem big enough to have PPE needs that large, could be regional. Have a few of those awarded/pending this year. It is really the best way to ensure interoperability of auto M/A departments with SCBA.

As far as the two trucks you mentioned, either a tower ladder or a straight stick quint, both are in that price range. I know another tower is heading to MA also, should be announced soon. That's in that same price range. Expensive needs mean expensive awards, and for those high population, high calls, high need cities, I can't argue with giving it to them. They'll use the bejesus out of anything they get.

[ksmith31]

How does a department determine if it is worth our time to apply for a piece of apparatus?

[BC79er]

Needs assessment. If it ends up the truck is the greatest need with the highest probability of funding, then fire away. If something else is needed more, and they go back to the single app/dept then you should go for the other project(s).

[ktb9780]

I've had some turnout gear grants hit with 270 to 350 sets of turnout which brings out some high dollar figures but, as bc79er said, those PPE grants for 650K are more than likely for regional SCBA projects.The bigger equipment grants are probably regional interoperable communications projects which eat up a lot of dollars very quickly.VES would be listed as MOF.I still have a very large one pending for a major metropolitan on VES for quite a few stations.;)

[michaeld327]

I thought I was out of line putting in 430K for a tanker...I guess not. Now we wait! Is there any way to get an indication of my odds? We are a small town of 2200 and this is a combo Tanker/pumper where we can get 6 FF's to a scene and have 2K gallons when we get there until we can get a water supply set up.

Anyone have any opinions?

[michaeld327]

I posted a reply and saw it for a minute...now its gone. anyone know why?

[carlthompson]

I am not from Lugoff....but a different part of the state....we heard the Lugoff was a regional grant for SCBA.......that's why it was so much $$$$$...

My department is still waiting for the 1099's or something.........

[k3twpfire]

Any of these large vehicle grants for multiple vehicles?

[ktb9780]

Any of these large vehicle grants for multiple vehicles?

I have not heard or seen of one yet Steve.

[BC79er]

I haven't either, I haven't even heard of anyone putting in for more than one truck. Didn't think that would play well in Peer.

[ktb9780]

I thought I was out of line putting in 430K for a tanker...I guess not. Now we wait! Is there any way to get an indication of my odds? We are a small town of 2200 and this is a combo Tanker/pumper where we can get 6 FF's to a scene and have 2K gallons when we get there until we can get a water supply set up.

Anyone have any opinions?


Your cost benefit of $9.97 is awfully high. $430K is pretty big money for only 2200 residents. There were only 13 trucks out of 965 last year awarded at over 400K. I am assuming at this point that you have not received a rejection notice on AUgust 16th? Are you sure?:rolleyes:

[neiowa]

I thought I was out of line putting in 430K for a tanker...I guess not. Now we wait! Is there any way to get an indication of my odds? We are a small town of 2200 and this is a combo Tanker/pumper where we can get 6 FF's to a scene and have 2K gallons when we get there until we can get a water supply set up.

Anyone have any opinions?

Has been mentioned several times that DHS has a significant psychological barrier to overcome at $300k.

$430000 would seem pretty pricey for only 2000gal

For comparision see- http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=84334&page=2 post #23 for Catch22's new pumper tanker ($190000). Add $10-15k for crewcab or add $50k for custom cab, add $8k for 07 envirowacko approved emissions.

[BC79er]

I think Kurt missed a 0 there, that C-B for $/resident is $196. Anything over $100 is a very long shot. Just going on truck design sounds like it has every option imaginable, I've got 3500gal trucks in the pipeline for 1/3rd less than that well-equipped. Folks gotta stop listening to the salespeople about what to apply for with apparatus, they're not handing out ISOSlayer specials, just basic trucks. Which when you have nothing or something falling apart, basic is still a whole lot better.

[onebugle]

I think Kurt missed a 0 there, that C-B for $/resident is $196. Anything over $100 is a very long shot. Just going on truck design sounds like it has every option imaginable, I've got 3500gal trucks in the pipeline for 1/3rd less than that well-equipped. Folks gotta stop listening to the salespeople about what to apply for with apparatus, they're not handing out ISOSlayer specials, just basic trucks. Which when you have nothing or something falling apart, basic is still a whole lot better.

It looks like Kurt's figure is based on a 20 year life span of the vehicle. Either way, that price is way out of line for that type of vehicle. I'm shocked that it got past the computer, but stranger things do happen.

[BC79er]

Ah yes, lifespan, that would do it. Never really do them myself since it's such an unexact science to handle lifespans. 10-15 front line, 10-15 reserve, then is it really not doing what it's supposed to etc, etc. Apps are done in the here and now so I tend to calculate in the here and now. All methods work though, at least all methods other than making WAGs. :)

[Limeforever]

WAG, thats the way I calculate friction loss and pump pressure. Seems to work most of the time, the rest of the time I just look to see if the nozzle man is sliding backwards. Sorry Brian I forgot, the nozzle is the thing the water comes out of for you truckies.

[neiowa]

Ah yes, lifespan, that would do it. Never really do them myself since it's such an unexact science to handle lifespans. 10-15 front line, 10-15 reserve, then is it really not doing what it's supposed to etc, etc. Apps are done in the here and now so I tend to calculate in the here and now. All methods work though, at least all methods other than making WAGs. :)

I'm guessing our new pumper tanker will still be in operation when I'm in a wheelchair and drooling on myself. Reserve is the local scrap yard. Our history has always been buy a 20yr old truck and run it for another 15years (or it's dead). If I make it 35 more yrs I'll be 80.

So HAVE to get it right. No do overs.

[BC79er]

No, no Derrick, nozzlemen are those things us truckies step over on our way to get the real work done to put out the fire. :D

Playing with pump pressure reminds me of our wild hose drills. Had one guy that was maybe 150 in gear soaking wet. Had a good grip though, rode the 3inch all over the field/lake. Nothing like wild hose on a 100+ degree day to cool off.

[michaeld327]

Well, we did make it thru the DJ round! PHEW! And by the way, I was also SHOCKED when not 1 but 2 quotes came in at 400K. I think I miss typed....it is a 2500 tanker with a 6 man custom cab with all packs tools and ready to work....just add water.

Does anyone know when the next round of DJ's come out or what the next hurdle will be?

[WJVaughn]

No, no Derrick, nozzlemen are those things us truckies step over on our way to get the real work done to put out the fire. :D

Playing with pump pressure reminds me of our wild hose drills. Had one guy that was maybe 150 in gear soaking wet. Had a good grip though, rode the 3inch all over the field/lake. Nothing like wild hose on a 100+ degree day to cool off.

You do that in Tennessee right now and you will get sent home for wasting water. Lot of Old Timers talking how they have never seen so many ponds and creeks dried up like this..

[Limeforever]

WJ, same thing up the road from you we are listed in the extreme drought by the Palmer drought index. I think they are listing us a over 4.7 inches for the month and over 13 inches for the year that we are behind. We have already started running on wildland fires. We have been on 6 within the last three days. And due to the lack of rain, we are already starting to get a lot of leaves falling. I got a feeling it is gonna be a long fall. How far will you lucky dogs that got the tankers come for mutual aid?

[BC79er]

I'll send some weather up your way then. Severe t-storms every day this week on the forecast. Had them last night for about 2-3 inches, happened earlier for about 2, pouring now for at least another 1-2". All week, 50% chance or more for the area. Good thing it's only in the afternoons, getting the new windows put in the house tomorrow. And it better dry up before this weekend, it's furniture moving time. Yippee, my back can't wait after laying ceramic tile all day....

[ktb9780]

I think Kurt missed a 0 there, that C-B for $/resident is $196. Anything over $100 is a very long shot. Just going on truck design sounds like it has every option imaginable, I've got 3500gal trucks in the pipeline for 1/3rd less than that well-equipped. Folks gotta stop listening to the salespeople about what to apply for with apparatus, they're not handing out ISOSlayer specials, just basic trucks. Which when you have nothing or something falling apart, basic is still a whole lot better.
Nice catch Brian I sure did hit the wrong key there on that one, thanks.;)

[cctrtlt2]

how do you figure cost anyalysis for the trucks? thanks.

[ktb9780]

how do you figure cost anyalysis for the trucks? thanks.

# of fire calls that that truck answers per year
multiply times 20 ( which equals the life of the truck)
divided into the otal cost of ther truck to get the "frequency of use" cost.


Population of first due area, multiplied times 20 years divided into total cost of truck gives you cost per person.;)

[michaeld327]

# of fire calls that that truck answers per year
multiply times 20 ( which equals the life of the truck)
divided into the otal cost of ther truck to get the "frequency of use" cost.


Population of first due area, multiplied times 20 years divided into total cost of truck gives you cost per person.;)


So, using this formula, our "frequency of use" cost is about $107 and the cost per person is $1.54. Please double check me on this. Our first due population for this truck is 14,013.
The truck is priced out at 430K and will answer about 200 calls a year. Does this look abit more reasonable?

[jdlowndes]

I thought I was out of line putting in 430K for a tanker...I guess not. Now we wait! Is there any way to get an indication of my odds? We are a small town of 2200 and this is a combo Tanker/pumper where we can get 6 FF's to a scene and have 2K gallons when we get there until we can get a water supply set up.

Anyone have any opinions?

So now you change it to 14,013 people instead of 2200 people. Brother, which is it?????

[jdlowndes]

Shame this guy can pass the Computer asking for 430K P/T and I can't pass it with a 158K P/T.... HAHAHAHA Funny how things are run sometimes!!!!

Before someone asks...
frequency of use cost is $136.21
cost per person is $0.66

Michaeld... I'm not questioning you, just the computer so don't take it personal, please!

[neiowa]

Well, we did make it thru the DJ round! PHEW! And by the way, I was also SHOCKED when not 1 but 2 quotes came in at 400K. I think I miss typed....it is a 2500 tanker with a 6 man custom cab with all packs tools and ready to work....just add water.

Does anyone know when the next round of DJ's come out or what the next hurdle will be?

For that money I hope you at least are getting CAFS.

[michaeld327]

Not taking it personal at all.....simply asking questions waiting anxiously. I was unsure how you came to the costs that you had.

I appreciate any info I get from you guys and am looking for signs.

[ktb9780]

Here is a shout out and a "job well done" to Chris Lienhardt up in Antioch who just aced a $500K award for their regional dispatch center outside Chicago on the PSIC out of Illinois. http://illinois.gov/PressReleases/ShowPressRelease.cfm?SubjectID =2&RecNum=6485 Congrats dude!:D

[jhl81791123]

Looking over the list of grant awards, a couple stand out.

Hartford, CT and Springfield, MA, $750,000 for vehicle. Is this for a ladder tower?

Newport News, VA and Lugoff, SC, PPE grants exceeding $650,000.00.

Kurt, Brian, Earl and others, ever won one this big??

My neighbor to the East, Pontiac Fire Department was successful on a MOF for over $700K in 2006. Generators and VES.

John Lyman
Waterford Fire Department
Michigan

[michaeld327]

I haven't won one, but I am still alive for my tanker!