Man Down. What to do?

[CaptBob]

Question: Just had an oral interview today and was presented with a scenario question. I would like to hear the thought process and or reasoning to how some of you fine people out there would answer this question. YOUR IN A STRUCTURE FIRE AND IN THE PROCESS OF BRINGING A VICTIM OUT YOUR PARTNER GOES DOWN, WHAT DO YOU DO?

This is a pretty common answer: Call a mayday. Then you get your brother/sister out. WE protect our own first.

If this question was as easy as getting our own out would they use it?

Scenario questions can be disguised in many different ways. Your goal is to dissect the question down to one word to discover what the question is really about before you answer. More on scenario questions here: http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/Fire-Service-Careers/Oral-Board-Scenario--Questions/8$10754

Most departments have a two in two out policy with a RIC team in place before entry. You can deviate from this policy if you strongly believe the situation requires a rescue. Yes, you can have a radio and call for the RIC team. The panel could take that option away from you.

So, you give the answer you would bring out your buddy and they come back with how do you explain to the family why you didn’t bring out their loved one? If you brought out the citizen, how do you explain why you didn’t bring out your buddy?

This question can place you in a no win situation. It has been drilled into our heads that we take care of our own first. Always. You would be hard pressed to not take your buddy out first. Is this what they’re looking for? Are you taking the bait? Could they be looking for something else?

The following candidate faced the same situation:

I recently was testing at a department and I got called back for an oral board, and I went in confident. The oral board did not surprise me with any questions and I was well prepared until........ The second to last question they asked me. The question was you are in a fully involved fire and your partner and an infant are both down, they are both right next to you and you can only grab one which one do you grab and why?

I remembered your steps to answering a question and I asked the oral board after thinking over it for a moment some questions of my own, but I was still stumped as to the answer I should have given them I was just wondering what they were looking for in this particulars question. Thanks Stan

Reply: What was your answer first?

Stan: Well, first I asked if I knew where both of them were located, then I asked if there was anyway possible in all my power to save both of them, then I said I would take the firefighter because if anything goes wrong in a fire with you and your partner you are suppose to get out immediately.

Then after that they told me when you get out of the building you see the infants family and what do you say to them. So I said that I would say I was sorry for what happened and explain the situation the best way I was able under the circumstances. Then they told me that next the media approaches me and what do you say to them. So I said that I would given the circumstances of what I had just been through I would have another officer speak to them because now just wasn't a good time.

Reply: Like most candidates you took the bait on saving your partner. What would you do now?

Stan: Save the infant now, but don't I face the same scenario with my partner's family, as well as the department and the media, from how I am seeing it, it seems like a lose lose situation. The question seems like they want to see how you think and that there is no right answer am I right?

Reply: Really? Are you missing the whole point here? There is one word from your EMT training that is the key to what you would do?

Stan: Could it be TRIAGE?

Reply: Bingo! Now what is your answer?

I would be surprised if there were not more opinions on this one. If you are answering this question with bringing your buddy out first and you’re failing the oral, you might consider a different approach of starting triage first then take the appropriate action. What if you started triage and the panel told you one or the other was breathless and pulse less?

This same scenario is being used in promotional tactical assessment centers to throw off the candidate. Man down! It often does taking the bait to get our own out and can cause the candidate to lose control of the simulated fire. A quick spin off to the RIC team and other resources and back to fighting the fire.

Another response:

I would set off his pass and radio beacon as well as my own, radio our location to the IC and request the RIC team be deployed I keep a drop bag on my turnouts so I would then attach it to my partner and get the infant or victim out. Once out I'm quick changing my bottle and going back in. Reason, my partner has PPE and the victim does not.

CB: Thinking on your feet but will an entry level candidate be expected to be that knowledgeable?

But did you do triage first???? If the panel was looking for the candidate to consider triage you could loose valuable points here. And, after blasting out your answer what are you going to do if they tell you that the infant or your ff buddy was dead and if you had called triage you should have know that?

So, it's back to what is the question about? Triage?

Still more:

Keep in mind, the victim is an occupant. It is going to take the entry team at least five minutes from time of dispatch to entry into the structure. Meanwhile, the victim has been exposed(inhaling gases w/o PPE) to very toxic gases from the fire. His survivabilty rate is low. You witnessed yr partner go down. His survivabilty rate is high. The panel wants to see you use good sense and judement.

The panel wants to see you use good sense and judement.

CB: True

You witnessed yr partner go down. His survivabilty rate is high.

CB: How do you know that? Had a candidate say this and a panel member asked how do you know your partners head hasn't been decapited?

Triage anyone???????

Listen to the question.

[2003Slobra]

Very interesting scenario. Is that a common question asked?

[Truckie42]

Question, being that I am NOT a career firefighter and am trying to get hired I need to ask, you wrote:

"Another response:

I would set off his pass and radio beacon as well as my own, radio our location to the IC and request the RIC team be deployed I keep a drop bag on my turnouts so I would then attach it to my partner and get the infant or victim out. Once out I'm quick changing my bottle and going back in. Reason, my partner has PPE and the victim does not.

CB: Thinking on your feet but will an entry level candidate be expected to be that knowledgeable?"

My question is how would an entry level candidate be expected to know about triage?

Thanks,
Truckie42

[CaptBob]

EMT's know what Triage is.

I encourage candidates to gain their EMT certification because you can take more tests and oral board panels can be confident that you have the hands on skills to take a chance on you for their academy; even if they're going to cover EMT. With your EMT you won't be stumped by a question like this or any other EMS related questions.

[ElectricHoser]

Very interesting scenario. Is that a common question asked?

I've been asked that question at least three times.

Sometimes the "right" answer is to pull your partner out first (a witnessed collapse has a higher chance of recovery - plus we protect our own).

Other times the "right" answer is to simply make an instant decision one way or the other, show no hesitation, demonstrate that you won't "lock up".

Now that you've read about this question, don't be so instantaneous to answer it when you hear it in an interview. The questioning panel is well aware of how common this question is and may modify the question ever so slightly, to see if you're answering by script or actually listening to them.

[CaptBob]

Now that you've read about this question, don't be so instantaneous to answer it when you hear it in an interview. The questioning panel is well aware of how common this question is and may modify the question ever so slightly, to see if you're answering by script or actually listening to them.


Yes, listen to the question. More here in this previous posting:
http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=93045

This might help

There are Six Steps To Answering Oral Board Questions

You should have a script that you have rehearsed with a tape recorder of anticipated questions by the time of your oral board. At the interview use these six simple steps in answering oral board questions:

1. Actively listen to the entire question. I have seen candidates stop listening when they think they already have the answer. They don’t. Listen!

2. Make sure you understand the question. If not, have the question repeated or rephrased.

3. Pause and gather your thoughts. It might seem like an eternity, but pausing is an acceptable tactic to show interviewers you are paying attention. During the pause, you can figure out the root of what they are asking.

4. Ask the question or make the statement to clarify the question. The question might be, “You see your partner pick up something at an emergency scene, what are you going to do?” Taking the question down to its basic form, what is the issue? Stealing. Then, formulate a simple answer. For example, you might say, “I would ask, ‘Is that yours?’” The board is going to tell you that he is taking it, but you already scored the points. After asking the question, you determine your partner is stealing, what do you do? Since stealing is an ethical issue and he won’t put it back, you might say, “Why don’t we go to our supervisor?” Why? Stealing is against the law.

5. KISS. Keep it simple sweetie. Don’t start a soap opera. Most candidates complicate the process. They intellectualize their answers, run past the question, decide an answer before hearing the entire question and fail to understand the process.

My son, Rob, was interviewing and the question was asked, “You have just finished your interview and go outside and find a man down on the sidewalk. What would you do?” He answered, “I would go up and say, ‘Buddy, are you all right?’” Someone finally got the answer right. For three days, job candidates were saying things like “Activate the 9-1-1 system” and “I know CPR.”

6. Deliver the Nugget answer with enthusiasm! Your personalized Nugget answer will set you apart from the clones.

A word to women. You have the advantage of bringing more feelings and emotions to your answers at an interview. Be careful though. I’ve had women at interviews start talking and it was like going on a journey. There seemed to be no final destination. Most men on the panel were not packed for the trip. This can’t be like a conversation with your girl friend. You have about 20 minutes to give complete but concise answers.

Getting this job is a process.

[CaptBob]

Double posting

[DennisTheMenace]

EMT's know what Triage is.

I encourage candidates to gain their EMT certification because you can take more tests and oral board panels can be confident that you have the hands on skills to take a chance on you for their academy; even if they're going to cover EMT. With your EMT you won't be stumped by a question like this or any other EMS related questions.
On the East Coast, except for departments that are in dire need of paramedics, it seems that the departments prefer strong smart guys who might not have much fire/ems experiance so that they have more of a blank sheet to mold with out the habits, bad and good, of a former department. I fully agree that a candidate needs to practice for interviews and keep his record clean, but it seems the experiance and certs are not a constant among departments.

As for this question, it is a lose/lose situation. The only way to answer it as an entry level candidate or someone testing to be Chief would be to give a answer that lowers the lose on one side them most, just as any traige situation calls for.