Questions from a non-FF

[SapphyreBlues]

These might seem silly because, well, they probably are. But they're things I'd like some info on. Thanks! :)

1.) Concerning grants. I understand that the gov't gives money to rescue personnel. What I don't understand are the "rounds". What does it mean by like "round 1" and so on?

2.) Jakes. Any history behind ff's being called this? And what exactly is the IAOCJ?

3.) Crusty. I know this applies to the helmet. And I am assuming the "crustier" the helmet, the more pride one has, particularly because it shows length of time in the service. Or at least that you've been through it a lot. Was I right about all that?

4.) Any difference between turnout gear and bunker gear? Same thing?

5.) Leather. Is that the dept. patch like thingy on the front of your helmet? If so, do you have to order those yourself or are they dept. issued?


That's all for now. I've been curious about some of these and thought might as well ask while I have the time.

I'm also trying to humor myself because they just had to call the paramedics to take my grandma to the hospital. Her blood sugar level bottomed out. While the glucose gel I gave her made it to go up, the paramedic said that was good, but after it runs through the system, it could bottom out again. (My grandma didn't eat good today...so they wanted her to go in for some observation in case it dropped again) She just picks like a bird and we tell her if you don't eat, your sugar level will drop. And it did :(

[backdraft663]

These might seem silly because, well, they probably are. But they're things I'd like some info on. Thanks! :)

1.) Concerning grants. I understand that the gov't gives money to rescue personnel. What I don't understand are the "rounds". What does it mean by like "round 1" and so on?

2.) Jakes. Any history behind ff's being called this? And what exactly is the IAOCJ?

3.) Crusty. I know this applies to the helmet. And I am assuming the "crustier" the helmet, the more pride one has, particularly because it shows length of time in the service. Or at least that you've been through it a lot. Was I right about all that?

4.) Any difference between turnout gear and bunker gear? Same thing?

5.) Leather. Is that the dept. patch like thingy on the front of your helmet? If so, do you have to order those yourself or are they dept. issued?


That's all for now. I've been curious about some of these and thought might as well ask while I have the time.

I'm also trying to humor myself because they just had to call the paramedics to take my grandma to the hospital. Her blood sugar level bottomed out. While the glucose gel I gave her made it to go up, the paramedic said that was good, but after it runs through the system, it could bottom out again. (My grandma didn't eat good today...so they wanted her to go in for some observation in case it dropped again) She just picks like a bird and we tell her if you don't eat, your sugar level will drop. And it did :(

1. Typically they release a certain amount of fire grants per week. They call that a round... This week round one next week round 2 and so on...

2.I Dont know the history behind the origination of a "Jake" But thats a firefighter thats been in there a while.... For the question about the IACOJ go to www.IACOJ.com which means International association of crusty old jakes.

3. Ill let someone else answer that

4. No difference its all the same.

5 Leather refers what older type helmets and some todays helmets were made out of. Older Crustier FF typically prefer these helmets.

[DeputyMarshal]

5 Leather refers what older type helmets and some todays helmets were made out of. Older Crustier FF typically prefer these helmets.

Alternatively, FFs who prefer tradition over functionality prefer these helmets... ;)

[SapphyreBlues]

Thanks much for the info. :)

My opinion on grants...sure it's great that grants are given out to fire departments. But y'all shouldn't sit back with your fingers crossed like somebody hoping to hit the lottery. If you need something, you should get it. Period. I've noticed the, I guess, "1199" threads. The whole "did you hear anything yet" is kinda sad, really. I mean, geez. One of the most dangerous jobs out there and you pretty much have to beg to get money to run on. But that's just the way things look from here...

As for tradition and functionality, I don't care if it's leather. I don't care if it's some new age material guaranteed not to melt if the sun sat on it. There's no way I'm running into a burning building :eek: Well unless I knew someone was in there. Then it becomes a matter of, "do I wanna stay safe out here, or do I wanna at least try and save a fellow human being?"

[KnightnPBIArmor]

Alternatively, FFs who prefer tradition over functionality prefer these helmets... ;)

...as do those who want to look like they're actually wearing a fire helmet and not a bowl purchased at a Tupperware party.... :p :D

[SapphyreBlues]

...as do those who want to look like they're actually wearing a fire helmet and not a bowl purchased at a Tupperware party.... :p :D

Aw now that just ain't right :D Although, it would be interesting to use when making dip :p But it can't be used. It would be hard explaining the gamey smell and taste of the dip to company :eek:

[FlyingKiwi]

Tip.

Start with flaked salmon for the dip. End up with smoked salmon.

[SapphyreBlues]

That just might work. And let's hope that the FF I got it from won't need it. That might just be a bad thing.

[MalahatTwo7]

Since the main questions were answered, except maybe "Jake" - there have been references to Jacobs Ladder - I forget the exact reference now, its been a while - but there is an answer in these threads somewhere.

IN any case, I hope your Grandma is doing better. Diabetic emgerencies are maybe one of the most scary for observers, because unless you know the person and their medical history (and even when you do) its tough to know how to help. All you can do is try and convince her to eat well.

[EastKyFF]

The term "Jake" came from a J-shaped key that FF's carried in New England. Prior to the advent of radios, the key was used to open alarm boxes to request additional alarms via telegraph.

[DeputyMarshal]

There are several anecdotal explanations for where "jake" as slang meaning "fireman" came from. The truth of it is that nobody is really sure how it originated but it did apparently come out of New England, most likely from Boston. The exact origins are anybody's guess.

Pick your favorite myth and run with it. ;)

[CaptainGonzo]

The firefighter assigned as the Chief's driver (back in the horse and buggy days) carried the key to open the Gamewell fire alarm boxes in the city of Boston. The key was shaped like the letter "J"... called the J -key, shortened to "Jake".

Calling firefighters "jakes" started there. A officer asking for a truckie to come in to pull a ceiling would say "get me a Jake with a rake!"

Being called "a good jake" is a compliment.

On the left coast, San Francisco Firefighters are called "jakeys".

I honor both names ... one of my cats is named Jakey Jake!

here he is lying on my newspaper, car keys and sunglasses...

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/DaGonz/DSCN1027.jpg

[EastKyFF]

Handsome cat, Gonz. But those bananas aren't ripe yet; don't eat them.

[SPFDRum]

That kitchen is scary clean....:eek:

[EastKyFF]

Gonzo, hope your dog isn't like this...

[CaptainGonzo]

Gonzo, hope your dog isn't like this...

Nah.. JakeyJake thinks he's a dog... hangs out with the dogs, sleeps with them. comes for treats at the same time...
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/DaGonz/DSCN1029.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/DaGonz/DSCN1031.jpg

His sister, Mia, on the other hand...she's "momma girl"... being the only other female in the house, she sticks to Mrs. Gonz like glue...except for feeding time!

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/DaGonz/DSCN1032.jpg

[SapphyreBlues]

Thanks for a bit of history behind "jakes". As for the pics, they're adorable :p

And MalahatTwo7: Grandma is doing a lot better. She's eating better today. She's not had many of those episodes, but we know exactly what to look for. She's cool to the touch, sweating, and is disoriented. She acts almost like she's drunk. While I know what to do, it is scary. Because if you don't get her sugar up, she can go into a coma. Some have told me to give her a mint when she does that. That, to me, is the worst thing to do because she could get choked on it. Anyways she is doing good. Thanks for asking :)

[Dickey]

There you Gonz, showing off your pussy to God and everyone!!

You got a big one too. Looks like it really gives a sh*t if he is laying on your stuff or not.:D

[SapphyreBlues]

:eek: :eek: :eek: ....you didn't just say that....:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Dusty27]

ummm...lets see "IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine" give you hint? Firefighters have possibly the sickest twisted sense of morbid, sick and just plain WRONG humor ever, but then what we see on a daily basis can make most peolpe sick faster than a fire captian downing a double cheesebuger at a MVA, 18wheeler v:s motercycle, Firefighters ESPECILEY wemon FF's are realy perverted!

[johnny46]

You know how I know you're gay?

You put pictures of your cat on the internet.

[SapphyreBlues]

ummm...lets see "IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine" give you hint? Firefighters have possibly the sickest twisted sense of morbid, sick and just plain WRONG humor ever, but then what we see on a daily basis can make most peolpe sick faster than a fire captian downing a double cheesebuger at a MVA, 18wheeler v:s motercycle, Firefighters ESPECILEY wemon FF's are realy perverted!

I've just been on this site for a few weeks, but I am certainly finding this to be very true :D

But I don't blame y'all. If I had to put up with what you people do on a daily basis, I'd be that way too! One of the keys to it, I guess, would be to laugh. No matter what, just laugh. Laughter is a release. And pent up feelings can cause burnout, or worse.

Cheese and whine..yup I have noticed that :D

[SapphyreBlues]

Ok....moving on to the next questions. Alarms. Like a 1 Alarm or 5 Alarm fire. I know the more alarms, the worse it is. So what determines how many they get? And about how many respond to each alarm?

Also, what is a flashover?

[BLSboy]

Ok....moving on to the next questions. Alarms. Like a 1 Alarm or 5 Alarm fire. I know the more alarms, the worse it is. So what determines how many they get? And about how many respond to each alarm?

Also, what is a flashover?

Alarms are predetermined by the amount of apparatus sent to a scene. It all depends on where you work. For example, a one alarm fire is usually 2 Engine Co.s, 1 Ladder, 1 Squad/Rescue, and a Battalion Chief. A 2 alarm is 2 more engines, a ladder, and Batt. Chief, in addition to a Dep. Chief. Once again, it is all contengient on where you work, as well as the type of building responding to.

A flashover is when all materials in a room reach are so hot that they all catch fire.

There is actually a MUCH more indepth answer to that question, but I don't know how far in depth you would like me to go, as far as fire behavior and what not.

[SapphyreBlues]

Ok, so a 5 alarm fire could pretty much tie up all the fire dept's in one city? The last major fire we had here in Bristol was when Cortrim burned down. Happened last Thanksgiving. It took over 60 FF's. Some locals made up dinners and brought it to them because they were missing their Thanksgiving meals.

As for the flashover, I take it that this happens very quickly, with the whole room just going up in an instant. Yeah I can see how that can be very dangerous :(

As for how detailed you get, I don't care :) just keep the language simple because I don't speak FF :D

[BLSboy]

Ok, so a 5 alarm fire could pretty much tie up all the fire dept's in one city? The last major fire we had here in Bristol was when Cortrim burned down. Happened last Thanksgiving. It took over 60 FF's. Some locals made up dinners and brought it to them because they were missing their Thanksgiving meals.

As for the flashover, I take it that this happens very quickly, with the whole room just going up in an instant. Yeah I can see how that can be very dangerous :(

As for how detailed you get, I don't care :) just keep the language simple because I don't speak FF :D

A 5 alarmer would keep alot of people busy for a long time. As for the depts....it all depends. Staffing, number of stations, but as a general statement, yes.

I will break out my Fire textbook out tomorrow, to double check I am right, but its too damn late now, and I am tired.

Yes, flashovers happen very quickly, and are extremely dangerous.

[pkfd7505]

Ok, so a 5 alarm fire could pretty much tie up all the fire dept's in one city? The last major fire we had here in Bristol was when Cortrim burned down. Happened last Thanksgiving. It took over 60 FF's. Some locals made up dinners and brought it to them because they were missing their Thanksgiving meals.

As for the flashover, I take it that this happens very quickly, with the whole room just going up in an instant. Yeah I can see how that can be very dangerous :(

As for how detailed you get, I don't care :) just keep the language simple because I don't speak FF :D

You ask some excellent questions, I like that. Flashovers are definitely a bad thing. Flashovers occur when the contents of a room simultaneously (or close to it) and rapidly heat up to the their "fire point" and ignite (this means that the object is hot enough to give off enough flammable gas to sustain combustion, and if I remember correctly, that temp is typically just over 900 degrees F for most household combustibles ). Usually this occurs in rooms with poor ventilation, if a room is well ventilated the objects in that room heat up at a slower rate. The most important thing a Fire Fighter can know about Flashovers is to watch for the signs, and react accordingly. Signs that you are in flashover conditions are, 1. Poorly ventilated rooms. 2. Angel Fingers, aka Rollover Flames (which are “fingers” of flame that shootout). 3. A rapid and substantial buildup of heat. 4. Thick dark smoke. There is an old chant (for lack of a better word) that Fire Fighters use to remember the signs of a flashover “Thick dark smoke, high heat, rollover, free burning”. You can describe flashovers all day long, but until you see one it is hard to comprehend. Watch the video in the link below.

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=1082573329&fr=yfp-t-501

I hope this helps.

[MalahatTwo7]

ummm...lets see "IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine" give you hint? Firefighters have possibly the sickest twisted sense of morbid, sick and just plain WRONG humor ever, but then what we see on a daily basis can make most peolpe sick faster than a fire captian downing a double cheesebuger at a MVA, 18wheeler v:s motercycle, Firefighters ESPECILEY wemon FF's are realy perverted!

An sum of us don spell to goodly eether. :D:D

[frenchfireball]

may i ask you something about flashover?i hope i will not disturb the very interesting thread of SapphyreBlues.

the point of no return? in case of flashover,right?just tell me,i'm not firefighter,but heard about it.

[MalahatTwo7]

Those who are better educated than I can answer the first part, so I am not going to put both feet in my mouth. :)

On the second part, though flashover is best described as the point at which the contents of a room become so heated by the fire that they begin to give off ignitable gases. The smoke in the room also becomes very flammable, and essentially what happens is the room goes from just having a fire in one corner to the entire room and its contents self igniting. Because the whole room basically explodes (although maybe thats not quite the right word to use) anything and anyone inside that room is pretty much considered burnt or dead, as the case may be. It is one of the most dangerous of fire conditions in any structure.

[SapphyreBlues]

I was wondering about flashovers because Bristol, VA just built a fire education house. What it is, is that instead of burning down structure after structure, they just built one that's reusable. . This house can be set ablaze over and over again. And one of the rooms creates a flashover, and I saw a pic of it. Very scary. As far as I know, it's the only education house of it's kind anywhere around here, so I guess departments are lining up to use it. Evidently it's just as good as any structure fire. I'll try looking that up and posting a link for y'all. I would like to know what you all think about it.

[EastKyFF]

Kentucky has at least one of those. It's a mobile one that can be taken all over the state. It's very close to the real thing (less airborne debris than a real fire, for example), and it's a great learning tool.

[SapphyreBlues]

Here's the link:

training house (http://www.tricities.com/tristate/tri/search.apx.-content-articles-TRI-2007-07-27-0007.html)

What do you all think of buildings like these?

[SapphyreBlues]

may i ask you something about flashover?i hope i will not disturb the very interesting thread of SapphyreBlues.

the point of no return? in case of flashover,right?just tell me,i'm not firefighter,but heard about it.

You wouldn't be disturbing anything :)

I'm not a FF either, but from the way they describe it, if you get caught in a flashover, you won't make it out alive :(

[CaptainGonzo]

You know how I know you're gay?

You put pictures of your cat on the internet.

I also posted pics of the dogs... does that make me bi-petual? :D

[SapphyreBlues]

Moving right along...

What's a backdraft? And NO "a movie" isn't an acceptable answer :p

And what's with the chains under fire trucks and ambulances? I've heard it was for static to provide some sort of grounding. Then I've heard it has something to do with the radio signals.

Thanks a lot for all the info y'all have provided :)

[FWDbuff]

ummm...lets see "IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine" give you hint? Firefighters have possibly the sickest twisted sense of morbid, sick and just plain WRONG humor ever, but then what we see on a daily basis can make most peolpe sick faster than a fire captian downing a double cheesebuger at a MVA, 18wheeler v:s motercycle, Firefighters ESPECILEY wemon FF's are realy perverted!

Dude- Spellcheck is your friend!

[FlyingKiwi]

Thats not a dog, THIS is a dog

They breed em big down here.

[IronsMan53]

Moving right along...

What's a backdraft? And NO "a movie" isn't an acceptable answer :p

And what's with the chains under fire trucks and ambulances? I've heard it was for static to provide some sort of grounding. Then I've heard it has something to do with the radio signals.

Thanks a lot for all the info y'all have provided :)

A backdraft happens when you have smoke and other unburnt combustable gasses that are usually concentrated in an enclosed area and are hot enough to ignite but it is just missing that one thing to light off. That one thing is oxygen... The fire is starving for it. When a door or window is opened, the air quickly goes toward the fire and once the oxygen reaches the hot gasses and smoke it violently ignites causing what looks like an explosion. This is a backdraft.

Those chains that you see under the rigs are probably on-the-spot chains. They are basically automatic snow chains that are operated from a switch in the cab and spin under the tires when activated.

[hwoods]

Dude- Spellcheck is your friend!

Then again, some folks have no friends........ :rolleyes:

[Dickey]

But I don't blame y'all. If I had to put up with what you people do on a daily basis, I'd be that way too! One of the keys to it, I guess, would be to laugh. No matter what, just laugh. Laughter is a release. And pent up feelings can cause burnout, or worse.

Cheese and whine..yup I have noticed that :D

This is very much true. See, we see and hear things that would blow your mind. Things that even with the best imagination, we couldn't make this stuff up. The only way to deal with it is to laugh and shake your head. If I am ever feeling down and think that my life sucks, all I gotta do is go to work and see how good my life really is. That's why we have a weird sense of humor. We make jokes of death, blood, guts, and crazy morbid things like that. Just a way to vent off some stress. Somoene outside the "circle" of people doing this job, they just wouldn't understand.
Personally, I just drink heavily!! :D

Then again, some folks have no friends........ :rolleyes:

I will be your friend for the low low special prices of $26 fiddy!!!
:D

[BLSboy]

The point of no return, in a flashover, is about 5-7 feet, or two steps. Anything further then that.....:rolleyes:
Being somewhat more conscious now, I can explain a tad better. A flashover is the transistion from the contents of the room, to the contents, and the structure itself.

To really understand a flashover, you need to understand fire behavior. An object itself does not "burn", per se. When an object is heated, it gives off flammable gasses, which are then in turn are ignited by the heat source that released them. The gasses perpetuate the cycle, causing more of the material to burn. This is known as pyrolysis.

As this cycle continues, more material is consumed, and the temperature is greatly increased in the compartment. As the temperature rises, the rate of pyrolysis increases as well, until all materials within the compartment are either releasing gasses, or already alight. At this point, all materials in said compartment are alight, including any people that have the unfortunance of being trapped in there.
Even with todays modern PPE, and SCBA, many firemen have been killed by this phenomenon, since while our PPE may protect us better, it also shields us from the heat so much that we cannot tell, by heat alone, when it is time for us to leave.
While the decrease in structural fires in the US is a good thing for the citizens we are charged with protecting, and the insurance cos., they do not allow the same amount of on the job training that used to be afforded to Firemen everywhere. Thusly, we cannot tell as accurately as our Brothers past, the signs of an imenant flashover.

I kinda got off topic there, sorry....:rolleyes: :cool:

[MalahatTwo7]

Jeeze AJ, that looks almost verbatum from the Book. :D:D

[johnny46]

I also posted pics of the dogs... does that make me bi-petual? :D

Clewer, weddy weddy clewer

[EastKyFF]

Here's what On-Spot chains look like in the "engaged" position. That little motor extends the boom and puts them in front of the tires. The chains roll under the tires and provide traction. They're very handy compared to traditional chains, in that there's no installation and they are available instantly if weather suddenly changes. They do great on ice but if snow gets very deep, the chains bounce off the snow surface a bit and don't find their way under the tires like they should. Don't even dream of putting them out in mud.

[MalahatTwo7]

EastKy, you guys actually get snow out your way? :D:D

[EastKyFF]

You know, once in a while we accidentally do. But the last few years it has been underwhelming. Now that I have kids who want to get out in it and play, I think they are being so ripped off compared to us children of the 1978 Blizzard.

This is the only Blizzard my kids ever see.

[MalahatTwo7]

Well ya know, you could send them a few hours north or east in winter time. ;)

[BLSboy]

Jeeze AJ, that looks almost verbatum from the Book. :D:D

Would ya believe me if I told ya that I had it memorized, and completely understand it?:eek:

We HAD to know our shiite...........or face tortureous Instructors that I had known since my Explorer days, so they were doubly hard on me:p

That was almost 2 years ago.....wow

they did a kick@ss job!

[SapphyreBlues]

Hmmm... I've been informed about everything from jakes to chains. So my next question is really strange. I'm asking because my sis brought it up yesterday.

Spontaneous human combustion. Any opinions on that one?

And feel free to comment on previous questions. If you got something to add, add it. Unless it's a pic of you floating naked in your pool. No human being needs to be subjected to such stuff :eek:

[1050major]

Hmmm... I've been informed about everything from jakes to chains. So my next question is really strange. I'm asking because my sis brought it up yesterday.

Spontaneous human combustion. Any opinions on that one?

And feel free to comment on previous questions. If you got something to add, add it. Unless it's a pic of you floating naked in your pool. No human being needs to be subjected to such stuff :eek:

I personally think Spontaneous Human Combustion is CRAP!! I believe that most of those supposed cases are people smoking and fall asleep.

[SapphyreBlues]

As you can see, I actually ran out of valid questions at the moment. I'm sure something will come to me.

As for the human combustion thing, there has been documented proof that this happens. Of course all of this "proof" comes from the same people that document the existence of UFOs and bigfoot. So I am sure the research was biased from the beginning. :rolleyes:

[MalahatTwo7]

I hear ya there AJ, I'm going through that now, and expect to be in a similar learning mode. :D

[BLSboy]

I hear ya there AJ, I'm going through that now, and expect to be in a similar learning mode. :D

It sure is a good way to remember things while asked to recite them while doing pushups in full PPE with SCBA in pouring rain in shin deep puddles :p :D

[CaptainGonzo]

I personally think Spontaneous Human Combustion is CRAP!! I believe that most of those supposed cases are people smoking and fall asleep.

If yuo find yourself smoking after sex, and you don't smoke, I'd worry! :D :D

[BLSboy]

If yuo find yourself smoking after sex, and you don't smoke, I'd worry! :D :D

What if she is "smoking" hott?
:cool: :p

[doughesson]

Kentucky has at least one of those. It's a mobile one that can be taken all over the state. It's very close to the real thing (less airborne debris than a real fire, for example), and it's a great learning tool.

My old department had that over for a visit about 4 years ago.We had both our front line rigs for actual response,our two reserve pumpers tapping hydrants and supplying water to the trainer for safety,a couple ambulances and numerous calls to McCracken County 911 about"Yeah,there's a trailer on fire out here on Reidland Road and the whole fire department is just watching it burn!"
Seriously,if you get a chance to go in that thing,jump at the chance.They won't let you wear your regular helmet because the heat level is too much and will melt even leather.You'll need to wear a proximity helmet instead.You are in the lower level watching the flame pattern traverse the length of the trailer as they close the vents to build up gasses and then open them to allow the flashover to occur and getting the idea of what to recognize so if you see it for real,you'd know that would a hell of a good time to head first out the nearest window.
The heat as transmitted through the facepiece feels about like sticking your head into a barbecue grill.For us,the rule was"Don't pat anyone on the shoulder as they come out as the residual heat caught between the layers of the coat WILL cause a burn in the shape of your handprint."
We borrowed the trainer during early December so it'd be cool outside and we still had guys show signs of heat exhaustion just from being in that thing for ten minutes.
But,as a wise man said"The more you sweat in training,the less you bleed in battle."

[doughesson]

Thats not a dog, THIS is a dog

They breed em big down here.

Never mind the owner with his big gun.Where's the dog that log chain used to hold?

[doughesson]

I saw more snow in Paducah Dec 2004(11 inches)than I did while stationed at Great Mistakes Naval Training Center.
You know, once in a while we accidentally do. But the last few years it has been underwhelming. Now that I have kids who want to get out in it and play, I think they are being so ripped off compared to us children of the 1978 Blizzard.

This is the only Blizzard my kids ever see.

[SapphyreBlues]

Here's my next question. From the moment the FD shows up at a structure fire, how long does it take before water is put on it? I am not talking about a complex structure, just a normal house, under normal conditions. Well aside from the pouring rain. Is 15 minutes unreasonable? Also, when you show up at the scene, shouldn't you already have your gear on? And shouldn't your equipment be ready for action?

I am asking because there was a house fire, and while it only took 3 min. to get to the house, it took 15 before they even starting hosing it. A witness told me that the men showed up not even prepared, and were putting on their suits. And they were fiddling around with their equipment, which from the way it sounded, wasn't put back on the trucks properly.

I just wanted to know what y'all thought about this. I know every dept is different, but I would like some views about it. And unfortunately, the man's house was a total loss.

[MalahatTwo7]

Never mind the owner with his big gun.Where's the dog that log chain used to hold?

When I was in OC for the Maryland State Firemans Convention back in June, I bought a caribeener (ya I know spelling? LOL). Of course the good salesman asked me what I was needing it for because I was rather specific about the size that I needed.

I told him it was for my dog.

Ya shoulda seen his eyes go wide on that one! :D Then I explained that I have a 117 pound Alaskan Malamute sled dog, and I showed him the spring clip I carry my keys on. I told him that during a thunderstorm earlier in the spring the dog had actually stretched one out and ran off.

Thats when his eyes got REAL big. :D:D

I got the caribeener at a decently reduced price.
----

Saphyre, there is no fast and easy answer to your latest question because each FD has its own procedures and methods of doing business. Most depts are considerably faster than the events you describe, which translates into saving a structure more often than not - but that all depends on the contents and structure itself, and how long the fire was building/burning before the IXII call was made. However, not being properly dressed before boarding the rig.... well its not my dept, so 'Nuff said... I think.

Should the trucks be ready to go before the fire call? Yes. But as I know from my old dept, during a training night, we might have 3 or 4 drills that all run into each other, gaining in complexity as they go. That means that gear may not be stowed exactly as it would be for operational purposes, and yes, we did get caught once or twice with a real call in the middle of a drill. However, we always discussed what we would do in that event, so we were at least mentally prepared.. sort of... Essentially throw the gear back on board and get going - first stowing that which required to properly stowed, like hoses. It was times like that where I didnt like being the Engine driver - my responsibility was first to ensure the truck was roadworthy before heading to the call.

[doughesson]

That's a sign of an unprepared department that some of the paid guys are always grousing about.Most volunteer departments take a little pride in being ready for the next one.
No matter how close it is in the morning to when you gotta get up and go to work,the rig still needs to be rehabbed for the next call.SCBAs need new bottles,face masks need cleaning and drying,tools need to be put back in their racks instead of on the floor,dirty hoses need pulling off and replaced for cleaning,the cooler needs more Gatorade(tm)mix,etc.You use the adrenaline that you're still jacked up on to get those jobs done before you have to leave.
I was told from the day I put my application in that if you don't pile off the truck ready to go and have the water flowing from the tank in 5 minutes from arriving while someone sets up the hydrant,we might as well have stayed home.
Now NFPA doesn't allow for moving around unbelted while the rig is in motion,but when you show up as the engine is pulling out of the bay and throw your gear in and get pulled in the door as the driver makes the corner on 3 wheels,you still have to be ready to go when you get there.Having grown up riding Memphis City school buses and learning how to ride standing up and do your homework that way actually helps.Who knew?

Here's my next question. From the moment the FD shows up at a structure fire, how long does it take before water is put on it? I am not talking about a complex structure, just a normal house, under normal conditions. Well aside from the pouring rain. Is 15 minutes unreasonable? Also, when you show up at the scene, shouldn't you already have your gear on? And shouldn't your equipment be ready for action?
I am asking because there was a house fire, and while it only took 3 min. to get to the house, it took 15 before they even starting hosing it. A witness told me that the men showed up not even prepared, and were putting on their suits. And they were fiddling around with their equipment, which from the way it sounded, wasn't put back on the trucks properly.
I just wanted to know what y'all thought about this. I know every dept is different, but I would like some views about it. And unfortunately, the man's house was a total loss.

[SapphyreBlues]

That's a sign of an unprepared department that some of the paid guys are always grousing about.Most volunteer departments take a little pride in being ready for the next one.


I don't know what's up with that dept. I know the one that my pastor belongs to is very strict. They have to be up, dressed and out the door within one minute of their beeper going off. And if you drag your hind end, you'll be dragging it at some other station.

So basically, from the way I take it, 15 minutes to get water on the fire is out of the question. I hope that department starts doing better. A lot of the people that come to church where I go is served by this dept. I would hate to think that they - or anybody for that matter! - could end up dying because they got a bad case of the slug foot.

[dmleblanc]

Here's my next question. From the moment the FD shows up at a structure fire, how long does it take before water is put on it? I am not talking about a complex structure, just a normal house, under normal conditions. Well aside from the pouring rain. Is 15 minutes unreasonable? Also, when you show up at the scene, shouldn't you already have your gear on? And shouldn't your equipment be ready for action?

I am asking because there was a house fire, and while it only took 3 min. to get to the house, it took 15 before they even starting hosing it. A witness told me that the men showed up not even prepared, and were putting on their suits. And they were fiddling around with their equipment, which from the way it sounded, wasn't put back on the trucks properly.

I just wanted to know what y'all thought about this. I know every dept is different, but I would like some views about it. And unfortunately, the man's house was a total loss.

Although I'm not familiar with the department in question, I'd have to say that yeah, 15 minutes from time of arrival to first water is unacceptable. HOWEVER, I also tend to take such reports ("a witness told me that...." )with a pretty big grain of salt. Civilian witnesses generally tend to misjudge the amount of time something took to happen at an emergency scene....Upset, hysterical bystanders watching a house burn will scream at us when we arrive, "What took you so long?!!! It took you 20 minutes to get here!!!" when I know for a fact that it was only 5 or 6 minutes. So that "15 minutes" may have been only 2 or 3.

See, the average lay person who knows nothing about firefighting assumes that as soon as the wheels on the big red truck stop turning, someone pulls off a hose and water should be flowing in seconds. That's Hollywood.

In reality, various other things are often taking place in support of that hose team....Yes, some equipment is still being donned (why waste breathing air in the front yard? Get off the truck with your air pack on your back, pause at the door to don your mask), utilities such as gas and electric are being turned off for the safety of the hose team, ventilation is being performed to alleviate the smoke and heat for the safety of the entry team and to begin to gain control of the fire, water supply from a hydrant is being established. Officer in charge is taking a quick walk around the entire structure to spot any unseen hazards that may endanger the entry team, and getting a good feel for the extent of the fire before he sends that team in. Lots of fireground activities are taking place before the first water is ever flowing.

Also, take into account the makeup of the department. Paid fire department, yes, all the firefighters will arrive on the trucks and should already be dressed for battle. Volunteer department, some of the members may be arriving in their personal vehicles and donning their gear out of the trunks of their cars when they arrive, so it seems (to the lay person) like they showed up unprepared. In reality, the 30 seconds or so it takes to don your bunker gear at the scene is the same 30 seconds or so it took for those paid guys to don it at the station, just nobody was watching ;) And then, SCBA (Self Contained Breathing Apparatus)is another issue altogether. If firefighters are arriving in personal vehicles and donning SCBA's off the truck, that's going to add a little time, too.

Yet another thing to think about...in whose opinion were they "...fiddling around with their equipment, which from the way it sounded, wasn't put back on the trucks properly..."? Again, how would the average bystander know how the equipment was "supposed" to be placed on the trucks? Some of our equipment is a little awkward to handle and takes some time and sometimes some help to get off the truck and place in service. Unless another firefighter mentioned that the equipment looked like it wasn't placed on the trucks properly, I wouldn't be too quick to accept that.

Again, I'm not saying that none of the above were true. Just that a firefighter and the average bystander would probably have very different opinions of what was done right or wrong at any given emergency scene. Granted, the house was a total loss, so maybe they did screw up :eek: , but sometimes even when everything goes right, it's still a total loss. Depends on the fire.

I hope this is all helping to answer some of your questions...you ask some very good questions. I don't want to defend a fire department's actions if they really messed up, but I'd like to help non-firefighters like yourself to understand that there's more than meets the eye at most fire scenes.

[SapphyreBlues]

As for the 15 minutes, I can tell you that it did actually take that long. I do understand what you said about hysterical people. I've seen it with others. They have no perception of time. When everything you work for is being destroyed right in front of you, time seems to stop.

Concerning the rest of what you said, I see what you mean. Everything that was done there has a wide interpretation to it. What bystanders see isn't what y'all see. And I am really hoping this is the case.

She did see them searching for gear. But come to think of it, how do we know those guys weren't probies who aren't real familiar yet with where everything is?

Anyways, I just relayed to y'all what I heard and wanted your opinions on it. Personally, I'm definitely not writing them off as a bad co. This is one incident as told by a bystander. But if several other people were to say the same thing about them at different scenes, I'd start thinking they'd better get some new FFs.

Edited to add:
What you said about them putting on their suits...well it was stupid of me to assume they were ill prepared in that aspect. I should have known that, but it didn't register until I read your post. I remember what my pastor said, about having to be dressed and out the door. I never even thought about, what if he's out somewhere and gets the call? He has to show up as is, then get dressed. He just gave an example of how much time they are given to respond. Things just weren't clicking ... :rolleyes:

[SapphyreBlues]

Next questions....what is a pike pole? What's it used for? Also, I saw a thing on tv demonstrating how to get out of a submerged car. It was an object about the size of a screwdriver, and it had a pointy end and it could instantly shatter a window. Anyone know what I'm talking about? If so, what's it called?

[st42stephenAFT]

Pike Pole is a nice metal pole that ranges in size. Most common are 3', 4' and 6' poles. There are different styles, New York and Boston are just some examples. They're used in overhaul to tear down walls and pull down ceiling. Also, they can be used while searching. Some also have a gas main shut off on the bottom, or something like a pry bar. The different varieties each have their own purpose.

The tool you're referring to is called a Window Punch. Pretty cool toy. We've practiced using them on windows, but smashing them with a haligan (though not always good when people are trapped) is a bit more fun. :)

[SapphyreBlues]

Ok. Thanks :)

Now, what's a haligan?

And is that window punch thing something civies can get ahold of? I wouldn't mind having one of those.

[BLSboy]

Next questions....what is a pike pole? What's it used for? Also, I saw a thing on tv demonstrating how to get out of a submerged car. It was an object about the size of a screwdriver, and it had a pointy end and it could instantly shatter a window. Anyone know what I'm talking about? If so, what's it called?

Generally, the pike pole family of tools is used to open up walls, and ceiling to look for fire. Lets take a look at some of the highlights

http://www.firehooksunlimited.net/images/nyroofhook_2.jpg

The New York Roof hook. Without a doubt, one of the best tools to have. You can use this on just about anything, and not have a problem.

http://www.firehooksunlimited.net/images/drywallhook.jpg

Drywall hook. Its name is what it is. This is excellent for pulling ceiling.

http://www.firehooksunlimited.net/images/eckerthook.jpg

Eckert hook. Used for opening up tin ductwork, sides of trailers, generally used for ripping though metal.

http://www.firehooksunlimited.net/images/newyorker_hooks.jpg

The original. The top is the New Yorker hook, a slight variation of the National hook, the bottom one.

They come in different lengths for different heights of ceiling, and different attachments at the bottom, for different uses, like shutting off gas, a D handle for extra pulling power, and a chisel end for prying.

The new Holliken hook looks promising. With en ergonomic handle, you can pull more with less energy. I can't wait until we get ours!
The Holliken I and II.

http://www.firehooksunlimited.net/images/holliken1.jpg

http://www.firehooksunlimited.net/images/holliken2_b.jpg

[BLSboy]

Ok. Thanks :)

Now, what's a haligan?

And is that window punch thing something civies can get ahold of? I wouldn't mind having one of those.

http://www.firehooksunlimited.net/images/probar_1.jpg

A Halligan bar.
Without a doubt, one if the most useful tools we have. With an 8lb. sledge, or flat head axe, we have "the keys to the city".
The flat head is known as the adze end, used for prying, pike end is next to adze end, used for puncturing tires, breaking windows, etc. The forks end is used to get in a little deeper to get more leverage.

Inventor was, correct me if I am wrong, Huey Halligan, FDNY?

Get a life hammer, They are orange, cheaper, do same job, and have a few more "toys" to them

[SapphyreBlues]

I like the looks of that eckert hook. Nevermind the window punch, I'd like to get my hands on one of them. And believe me, it'll be the last time the neighbor's dog runs loose in our garden again :eek:


Just kidding. About actually doing it. As for feeling like it...different story right there.

edited to add...those pike poles and that halligan looks neat. Now what y'all really need is like a 12-in-1 Swiss Army tool. And if you're lucky enough to get the enhanced version, it'll even mow your yard :D

Sorry it's late and I'm tired...but can't sleep. Always a fun experience :rolleyes:

[MalahatTwo7]

Sapphyre, most of us carry the next generation "Boy Scout/Swiss Army Tool". We call'em either Leatherman or Gerber, depending on personal preference. Either one is a multi bit tool: cutter, plyers, screwdriver, bottle opener and a couple other things that most SA tools can't even dream about. ;) I bought my first Gerber tool when I was with the navy - Chief told us we had to have a sharp knife with us at all times, for cutting/splicing rope. {not that I remember how to do any of that anymore.}

[SapphyreBlues]

Oh i know about Swiss Army tools...I'm talking about combining your halligan thingy with those pike poles and stuff. just have one do it all, know it all tool. Of course it would probably be as big as a Buick :eek:

[SapphyreBlues]

I knew I would think of something else...and I have. I've read the word "whacker" or "whackerish" on these forums. Is there a definition for this? Or is it like porn...you can't explain it, but you know it when you see it :D

And Before It's Even Said....NO...I am not into porn!! :eek:

Hopefully I'll have a better question later.

[SPFDRum]

I can see the advantages of that Holliken hook but it won't fit in that neat little hole that we have had for the last 100 years for pike poles. The mayhem and travesty for the old guys is going to be horrible!:eek: :D

[doughesson]

If you see an old Chevy Blazer with several fire related stickers and the driver is wearing a t shirt that says"No one can force me to run into a burning building.I'M A VOLUNTEER!", you are seeing either a whacker or me on my way to the grocery store.It depends.
Yes,it is something you know when you see it.It usually denotes someone that has all the knickknacks in the Our Designs catalog,and is on the Galls Christmas card list because the order takers know his voice from all the purchases he makes over the phone.This person doesn't always know how to fight fires but he sure talks the talk.I admit I was learning to walk when I had to leave my department vowing to return when I had my EMT license.
As for seatbelt cutter/window punch combos,yes anyone can have them.Mine is a little yellow Res-Q-Me tool from Task Force Tips.Several outlets carry them from Galls,Our Designs and Task Force Tips.10 bucks buys enough peace of mind and they do have uses even when responding to calls.A friend of mine bought one after joining the department we were on and a week later used it to open a car that got involved in a grass fire when hitting the window with a hallegan didn't work.They really work.

I knew I would think of something else...and I have. I've read the word "whacker" or "whackerish" on these forums. Is there a definition for this? Or is it like porn...you can't explain it, but you know it when you see it :D

And Before It's Even Said....NO...I am not into porn!! :eek:

Hopefully I'll have a better question later.

[doughesson]

The ones I use as a towboat Mate are 10-12' long.They're still too short to grab a mooring wire buoy and always too long when you gotta stow them.Just like the ones on an engine or ladder,right?

[QUOTE=st42stephenAFT;846893]Pike Pole is a nice metal pole that ranges in size. Most common are 3', 4' and 6' poles. QUOTE]

[SapphyreBlues]

If you see an old Chevy Blazer with several fire related stickers and the driver is wearing a t shirt that says"No one can force me to run into a burning building.I'M A VOLUNTEER!", you are seeing either a whacker or me on my way to the grocery store.It depends.
Yes,it is something you know when you see it.It usually denotes someone that has all the knickknacks in the Our Designs catalog,and is on the Galls Christmas card list because the order takers know his voice from all the purchases he makes over the phone.This person doesn't always know how to fight fires but he sure talks the talk.I admit I was learning to walk when I had to leave my department vowing to return when I had my EMT license.
As for seatbelt cutter/window punch combos,yes anyone can have them.Mine is a little yellow Res-Q-Me tool from Task Force Tips.Several outlets carry them from Galls,Our Designs and Task Force Tips.10 bucks buys enough peace of mind and they do have uses even when responding to calls.A friend of mine bought one after joining the department we were on and a week later used it to open a car that got involved in a grass fire when hitting the window with a hallegan didn't work.They really work.

I've seen a whacker then :eek: There's a guy who's got a nice truck and the whole back window is painted blazes and that 4 sided fireman symbol thingy. And like axes and stuff. So I assume he's either a FF, or obsessed.

Our Designs, Task Force Tips and Galls? FF catalogue stuff right? Well knickknacks aren't too bad. I saw one where a FF was running into a fire and it had an angel with it's wings wrapped around him. Think it had some prayer on it too. It was pretty. Well they aren't bad unless you have so many that you stack them on lazy-susan table top things so you can rotate them every now and then :eek:

Would still like to get one of those window things. Problem is...could a person use it effectively while panicking? Glad it's a simple device.

[st42stephenAFT]

It depends if they get lucky or not. If they're panicing and shaking and end up missing the window, no it won't work. But if you can keep your cool, and get the object aimed, you should be able to use it.

By the way - that 4 sided fire man symbol is called the Maltese Cross.

[SapphyreBlues]

It depends if they get lucky or not. If they're panicing and shaking and end up missing the window, no it won't work. But if you can keep your cool, and get the object aimed, you should be able to use it.

By the way - that 4 sided fire man symbol is called the Maltese Cross.

I never knew what that was. Maltese Cross sounds a lot better than that 4 sided fireman symbol thingy. Thanks :)

And no, being submerged in water...I can't see why a person would panic at all :eek: I know I'd be freaking out. I'd be the person the FD finds fumbling with the window punch screaming that I'm drowning. And this is when the FF informs me that "It's only 6 inches of water. Break it and crawl out!"

[SapphyreBlues]

On to the next one. Superstitions. Are there any FD superstitions out there? Like I know some ball players will wear the same socks. I'm talking about stuff like that. If so, is there any history behind them?

[RspctFrmCalgary]

Have you thought about doing a search for some of these subjects? Probably be quite informative. Especially that last question about superstitions, as there are quite a number of old threads that I'm sure you'll enjoy reading.

[SapphyreBlues]

Well, the ones I've asked before, some weren't brought up, or were talked about, but the answer I needed wasn't in there. So I thought I'd just ask about this one too....

Ok...did a search. Found out a few things. But perhaps someone has more to add? the threads I found were from a few years ago, so maybe someone new has come along and could share something :)

[SapphyreBlues]

I tried to do a search for this, but it kept error'ing on me because "the words were too common" :rolleyes:

So, here it is...what's a FF2/level 2, whichever y'all call it. It is a FF with some medical training? If so, what's the extent of that training?

For those that took the time to answer my ?'s, I appreciate it. Thanks! :D

[mvfd27]

In Wisconsin, a certified ff2 is someone who has passed the required classroom curriculum and the state written and practical certification tests. The focus of these tests at least in Wiscosin builds off the skills learned in the ff 1 and entry levels. It incorporates those skills but adds more leadership and communication skills to the mix. I'm not sure how other states operate, but there are national guidelines for the FF cert. levels and states must follow the guidelines and can make their requirements more stringent.

Basically its a level of certification based on demonstrating a desired skill set and knowledge of the job. Hopefully that is of some assistance...if any one out there can add to this or speak for their states feel free to help me out.

[doughesson]

The Res-q-me tool is essentially point and click.Just 14 pounds of pressure against a window and it's broken.
If you've seen "Survivorman"where the guy is in a car "flooding"and he is collecting loose change from the floormats and putting it in his sock for busting out a window,you'd be way ahead of him with the Res-q-me on your keyring.I wouldn't be as calm as he was.
The best way to get out of a vehicle underwater is to not drive it into flooded areas in the first place.Water high enough to cover to half the hubcaps' height has enough power to move your car.Find a different route,even if it's out of the way.
There's a thread somehwere around here where a fella drove into an underpass,stalled his car and then expected the firefighters to carry him out to safety.
You don't want to be that person.


Would still like to get one of those window things. Problem is...could a person use it effectively while panicking? Glad it's a simple device.

[doughesson]

On to the next one. Superstitions. Are there any FD superstitions out there? Like I know some ball players will wear the same socks. I'm talking about stuff like that. If so, is there any history behind them?


Superstitions.I don't believe in them.I put my turnouts on right foot first because Mom told me to put my shoes on that way.It also keeps me from tripping over my own left feet.
I always put my nomex hood on first,even before the turnouts because that keeps me from getting burned on the head.
If I hand someone a knife that open,I expect it to be open when I get it back because if it is returned in the closed position,it means that you will fall overboard(it's a river thing).
No one at my old department was allowed to utter the words"Hey y'all,watch this" when piling off the rig at a call.They were usually relegated to rehab for their own safety.

[dmleblanc]

On to the next one. Superstitions. Are there any FD superstitions out there? Like I know some ball players will wear the same socks. I'm talking about stuff like that. If so, is there any history behind them?


Well, in my department, it's generally held to be true that calls come in threes. You go a few days without a call, get a call one morning, you can bet that there'll be a couple more that day. Or so it seems to us. :cool:

There's a lot of superstition about full moons, too. Full moons seem to bring out the crazy people and consequently, all the weird, unusual, or downright nasty calls. We've always sort of believed that one to be true as well. Ask anybody in EMS or law enforcement, as well, they'll probably say the same thing.

[SapphyreBlues]

Well, in my department, it's generally held to be true that calls come in threes. You go a few days without a call, get a call one morning, you can bet that there'll be a couple more that day. Or so it seems to us. :cool:

There's a lot of superstition about full moons, too. Full moons seem to bring out the crazy people and consequently, all the weird, unusual, or downright nasty calls. We've always sort of believed that one to be true as well. Ask anybody in EMS or law enforcement, as well, they'll probably say the same thing.

I remember watching some EMT show on tv, and it happened to be a full moon out. They said they, for some reason, are always busier at that time. Strange stuff...

[SapphyreBlues]

Next one. Have any of you, or someone you know, ever encountered a bible that hadn't burned up? I've heard of it happening before, but I wonder if anyone's actually seen it.

My cousin's stepdaughter said that her bible didn't get burned in their house fire, although all the books around it did. Of course I don't pay much attention to what she says. She lies so much that she wouldn't recognize the truth if it sat on her face and wiggled. :rolleyes:

I'm just curious to see if anybody knows about this happening.

[frenchfireball]

Well, in my department, it's generally held to be true that calls come in threes. You go a few days without a call, get a call one morning, you can bet that there'll be a couple more that day. Or so it seems to us. :cool:

There's a lot of superstition about full moons, too. Full moons seem to bring out the crazy people and consequently, all the weird, unusual, or downright nasty calls. We've always sort of believed that one to be true as well. Ask anybody in EMS or law enforcement, as well, they'll probably say the same thing.

same things here for full moon:more suicides and violent people in the streets who curse at firefighters or ems when they want to help.

[doughesson]

We're also not allowed to say"See ya at 0300.We'll have a structure fire then."
If we get tapped out for a structure fire at 0300,the person that called it better have an airtight alibi about where they was.

Well, in my department, it's generally held to be true that calls come in threes. You go a few days without a call, get a call one morning, you can bet that there'll be a couple more that day. Or so it seems to us. :cool:

There's a lot of superstition about full moons, too. Full moons seem to bring out the crazy people and consequently, all the weird, unusual, or downright nasty calls. We've always sort of believed that one to be true as well. Ask anybody in EMS or law enforcement, as well, they'll probably say the same thing.

[1050major]

Next one. Have any of you, or someone you know, ever encountered a bible that hadn't burned up? I've heard of it happening before, but I wonder if anyone's actually seen it.

My cousin's stepdaughter said that her bible didn't get burned in their house fire, although all the books around it did. Of course I don't pay much attention to what she says. She lies so much that she wouldn't recognize the truth if it sat on her face and wiggled. :rolleyes:

I'm just curious to see if anybody knows about this happening.

Most books don't burn all of the way up because, if they are closed they can't get air therefore no combustion.

[st42stephenAFT]

The Bible might be one of those things that you only see when it happens. I wonder if you check other house fires, if their Bible's burned? But you don't hear anything about it because it didn't make it, so it's nothing special. But it's a 'sign' when it doesn't burn. I think it's more of a fluke.

[SapphyreBlues]

If at every single fire, the FFs found nearly unharmed bibles, I'd be like WHOA. But since it's just something that happens every now and then, it's more like HMM. At least that's what I think.

[SapphyreBlues]

Next question...

In another thread these were mentioned. I have no clue what they are, and neither did some others. So...here is is. What's a smoothbore? A fog nozzle?

[mvfd27]

Next question...

In another thread these were mentioned. I have no clue what they are, and neither did some others. So...here is is. What's a smoothbore? A fog nozzle?

A smooth bore nozzle produces a solid stream of water. The water comes from the hose and into the nozzle and when the valve is open straight out the tip. It is great for penetration and reach.

A Fog Nozzle has deflectors that break up the stream to produce a mist or fog. These nozzles are adjustable by turning the end of the nozzle to determine the amount of deflection or stream break up. A fog nozzle can produce a stream similar to a smooth bore nozzle, which is called a straight stream or it can produce various fog patterns as needed, determined by the degree of adjustment on the nozzle tip.

The straight stream doesn't quite produce the same reach as a smooth bore nozzle, but does the job and is used in place of a smooth bore nozzle in many cases. The fog stream used to be the primary stream in fire attacks because the droplets produced on a fog setting would absorb alot of heat and put the fire out. But would also off set the thermal balance, in other words bring the hot stuff from the ceiling down to the floor. Hence the switch to a smooth bore or straight stream attack. The most common use now for a fog stream in structure fires is hydraulic ventilation, basically, you use a fog setting to push the smoke and heat out of an open window. Otherwise a wide fog is used to push fire back from a gas fire to allow someone to turn off the gas flow.

Hope this answers your question and if any one else has something to add feel free.

[firecat1]

oops....sorry:o

[MasterMerlin]

Here is a picture showing what mvfd27 explained. I hope the picture imports.

[mvfd27]

Here is a picture showing what mvfd27 explained. I hope the picture imports.

Thanks, perfect illustration of the streams.:)

[MasterMerlin]

I guess I should have said what each were. I guess I got too excited when the picture actually imported like I wanted it to.

[mvfd27]

I guess I should have said what each were. I guess I got too excited when the picture actually imported like I wanted it to.

You can go back and edit...otherwise, from foreground to back: Straight stream from a fog nozzle, smooth bore nozzle and fog nozzle set to a fog pattern.

[SapphyreBlues]

Oh ok. Yeah I've seen that before, but never knew there were names for the stream patterns. Thanks much :)

[mvfd27]

Oh ok. Yeah I've seen that before, but never knew there were names for the stream patterns. Thanks much :)

Not a problem!!:D

[SapphyreBlues]

Seems to me that the fog nozzle would be better than the smooth bore, since it has different settings. Of course I might be wrong about that.

Next question.... On average, how many gal per min are coming out of a hose? I guess I'm asking this part right...hope y'all know what I mean... how much force or pounds of pressure?

[Ladder8]

It depends upon the size of the hose....

On average (around here anyway) - a 1.75 inch line is about 100-150 gpm, depending upon pressure

a 2.5 inch - about 250 gpm, depending upon pressure.

(at least this is what I remember, no hitting please...)

[mvfd27]

Ladder 8, that sounds about right for gpms.

[mvfd27]

Seems to me that the fog nozzle would be better than the smooth bore, since it has different settings. Of course I might be wrong about that.

In many ways yes, it is more versatile, but when making an interior attack you must make sure your nozzle is set at straight stream (all the way to the right). If not, you'll open up with a fog stream and all the hot stuff from the ceiling comes down to the floor resulting in being a bit uncomfortable at best but more than likely causing some nasty steam burns.

With a smoothbore there is no such issue and with a little creativity and some modification you can do the hydraulic vetilation I mentioned earlier with a smoothbore.

[frenchfireball]

In many ways yes, it is more versatile, but when making an interior attack you must make sure your nozzle is set at straight stream (all the way to the right). If not, you'll open up with a fog stream and all the hot stuff from the ceiling comes down to the floor resulting in being a bit uncomfortable at best but more than likely causing some nasty steam burns.

With a smoothbore there is no such issue and with a little creativity and some modification you can do the hydraulic vetilation I mentioned earlier with a smoothbore.

so that is why most of the firefighters prefer smoothbore nozzles,if i understand your post correctly,right?

[DeputyMarshal]

so that is why most of the firefighters prefer smoothbore nozzles,if i understand your post correctly,right?


I wouldn't put it that way.

Some prefer smoothbores all the time.

Some prefer adjustable fog all the time.

Some prefer to choose which type of nozzle they want to use -- either smoothbore or adjustable fog -- depending on the situation.

[frenchfireball]

I wouldn't put it that way.

Some prefer smoothbores all the time.

Some prefer adjustable fog all the time.

Some prefer to choose which type of nozzle they want to use -- either smoothbore or adjustable fog -- depending on the situation.


ok DeputyMarshal,because here, they do not have smoothbore nozzles,they use combination nozzles and different patterns.

[mvfd27]

so that is why most of the firefighters prefer smoothbore nozzles,if i understand your post correctly,right?

I wasn't trying to advocate one over the other, but despite how my post may have came off, I do like the combination nozzle slightly better. I like the flexibility and can maintain enough situational awareness to check the adjustment on the combination nozzle before opening up. In some cases the type of nozzle pulled depends on the nature of the fire, structure involved and preferences of the crew/truck officer.