Concealed Weapons permit

[The1Engine]

In my backgrond packet for a big department, I was asked if I have a concealed weapons permit. I do have one, I was in the military for 6 years and I have been an avid gun shooter since 10 years old. Is this going to hurt my chances and why?

[OlieCan]

I have no idea, but I wouldn't think so. If you're worried about it, specify that you have it from being in the military on one of the continuance sheets they give you to write additional info for questions.

[Fixxer]

In my backgrond packet for a big department, I was asked if I have a concealed weapons permit. I do have one, I was in the military for 6 years and I have been an avid gun shooter since 10 years old. Is this going to hurt my chances and why?

You have followed the law by obtaining the permit. The state you live in has said you are responsible enough to carry a lethal weapon. There's no reason you wouldn't be allowed to carry hoseline. It will probably save them time. You said big deparment, probably meaning big city. Here in Philly the PD does all the background checks for the FD. Probably the same for most big cities. So, if you have a permit to carry, it will make the investigator's life a little easier since most of the work is already done. I wouldn't even blink an eye about it....In fact, I'd say it's an asset....

BTW, the reason you have the permit is ALWAYS for self defense. Nothing else. Not for gun collecting, not for sport shooting, etc. The only reason is so you can protect yourself and your family should the need ever arise.

[Geinandputitout]

Remember, a concealed carry permit allows you to carry when you are in a public space. Your employer or any property owner can still ban fire-arms on their property. We've just had this issue come up in our fire house, anyway we have one less firefighter and no fire arms on the premises, unless you are a certified peace officer carrying out your official duties.

[Tnfiremedic]

Simple answer. Yes or No. Now if they ask “why?”, go for the defense of my family.

Where I worked, don’t bring a weapon to work. If your caught on city property, disciplinary action will be taken, permit or not.

The operative word is “bring”. If you were stopped for a minor traffic violation on the way into the hall and an officer found a weapon, you got disciplined, because your destination was city property. The guy wound up calling in a marker to save his job.

If your on city property, your vehicle is subject to search without a warrant in this city. This may not be a blanket policy everywhere.

[Buckels128]

I dont know what state your trying to get hired in. Here in Ohio it is public record who has a permit. So lying on this question would be easy to catch by the city, and probally get you tossed.

[polecat]

If you need this highly restricted firearms licence to transport your handguns to the range,fine, otherwise I would consider giving it up, because packing a concealed weapon around with you for the sole purpose of protection, may raise questions with the board. I know it would if you were applying with the postal service. All the best.

[The1Engine]

Yes the permit is for self defense. It is my second ammendment right to bear arms. I carry my side arm every where I go. And if hired and there was a rule about me not having it I am fine with that. Part of obtaining the permit is knowing where you can and cant carry a weapon, there are lots of places where I am not allowed to bring it. But I am still having trouble with why this question is even on the packet.

[SSIaerialmanTIM]

Yes the permit is for self defense. It is my second ammendment right to bear arms. I carry my side arm every where I go. And if hired and there was a rule about me not having it I am fine with that. Part of obtaining the permit is knowing where you can and cant carry a weapon, there are lots of places where I am not allowed to bring it. But I am still having trouble with why this question is even on the packet.

I think you are right to have an issue with why they think this is their business.

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/ (might have some info, but I bet you know the site, click on your state - good info)

I don’t know of ANY state where being on your “way” to city property and getting stopped for say speeding – can get a lawful “CC” permit person in trouble. Also – many state laws allow you to keep it in your car “concealed” while you are at work (even if the employer will not allow citizens to exercise their 2nd Amend. rights.) Just don’t take it in the building.

Were I you, that is what I would do – drive to work – safeguard it in the car if legal in your state; do your duty, then drive home with it.

To be honest with you, this “big department” has no business asking you if you have this permit or not – You obtained it lawfully – I do not see that it is any of their business and it might not even be legal for them to ask you this – after all it is public record and it has nothing to do with your ability to do the job.

All the nuts out there and they are worried about a LAWFUL "CC Permit", that burns me up. TL

[Tnfiremedic]

I don't know of any either. Didn't say it was a violation of the state laws. It was a violation of departmental rules.

[Fixxer]

Yes the permit is for self defense. It is my second ammendment right to bear arms. I carry my side arm every where I go. And if hired and there was a rule about me not having it I am fine with that. Part of obtaining the permit is knowing where you can and cant carry a weapon, there are lots of places where I am not allowed to bring it. But I am still having trouble with why this question is even on the packet.

Seriously, who cares? You're legal. I'm sure there are a lot more personal and dear questions in that packet (i.e. Have you ever been divorced? Have you ever declared bankruptcy? etc.). Don't worry a bit about it, and don't get your panties in a knot. If for some insane and unbelieveable reason they shoot you down because of the permit, you will easily win a lawsuit for appointment to the academy, back pay, and back seniority. But like I said, I wouldn't even give it a second thought....just another question....BTW, what state are you in?

[SSIaerialmanTIM]

Seriously, who cares? ---- I'm sure there are a lot more personal and dear questions in that packet. ---- Don't worry a bit about it, and don't get your panties in a knot. ....BTW, what state are you in?

You may not actually know this but a "CC" permit is much more of a private matter than divorce for instance. There are plenty of people who think like you do - "no big deal", etc. That is how people lose rights. It all starts with thinking they are not prying into your life FOR A REASON.

It is a big deal and it is none of their business. It is a violation of the 2nd Amend. and if they did "use it against" this fella, how would he prove it? If he gets the job and later they use the info to search his car, would that be right? Would it be just a coincidence?? What about if he doesn’t get the job or even a call back??

The whole idea of a "CC" permit is PRIVACY. Asking someone to put that in writing on unsecured paperwork is dangerous (and yes this application he would have to fill out is unsecured). Anyone could get ahold of it and that is not cool. This "big dept." is not law enforcement and they have no use for this info. If I applied there I would not fill it out & copy the application before I turned it in. If they gave me grief about not answering the question I would ask if they wanted to speak to the NRA about it. (then if I didn't get the job & felt like that had someting to do with it, I might even contact the NRA and ask them if it was legal)

Let them ask something legit - like have you committed any crimes. That question on that application is some left wing nut job’s idea of preventing another mall shooting – go after the law abider, not the criminal. “BASS AK WARDS” And that line of thinking should not be tolerated.

I have a legit question, :) why do you want to know what state he is in? TL (done ranting) :)

[Fixxer]

....That is how people lose rights.....It is a violation of the 2nd Amend. and if they did "use it against" this fella, how would he prove it? If he gets the job and later they use the info to search his car, would that be right?.... Asking someone to put that in writing on unsecured paperwork is dangerous.... Anyone could get ahold of it and that is not cool.

What the hell are you talking about? It is not a violation of the second amendment to be asked if you have a concealed weapons permit. Having the permit does not make one subject to reduced protection from the Fourth Ammendment (Unlawful search & seizure). And if someone was to "discover" the "public record" that a person has a concealed weapons permit, what exactly would they do with that info? Not rob you? Sounds like way too many people are conspiracy theorists around here.

....If I applied there I would not fill it out & copy the application before I turned it in. If they gave me grief about not answering the question I would ask if they wanted to speak to the NRA about it. (then if I didn't get the job & felt like that had someting to do with it, I might even contact the NRA and ask them if it was legal)

You probably wouldn't get the job, because you failed to complete the application package. I think it would be creating a problem where there is none.

....Let them ask something legit - like have you committed any crimes. That question on that application is some left wing nut job’s idea of preventing another mall shooting – go after the law abider, not the criminal. “BASS AK WARDS” And that line of thinking should not be tolerated.

I really think that is overreacting. I am sure they did ask about committing any crimes, as well as about drug use. I don't think they are "going after the law abider." I think they are getting the "full picture" of who this person is. As I said in an earlier post, perhaps they will view this as a testament to his/her personal responsibility.

....I have a legit question, :) why do you want to know what state he is in? TL (done ranting) :)

I was curious that's all. Some states are very strict (NJ), make the CCW permit a nightmare to obtain, and probably have odd rules.

....TL (done ranting) :)

Not a problem, we all feel passionate about our opinions ;-)

BTW, before anyone calls me a left-winger and thinks I do not have a vested intereset in this question.....I have a CCW permit, I live in the Commonwealth of PA, I live in the City of Brotherly Love (HA!), I am a paid professional FF in the PFD, I am a Republican, and I was asked the same question during my application process. All that said, if anyone wants to use that precious secret information, come and get me.... ;-)

- Fix

[SSIaerialmanTIM]

What the hell are you talking about? It is not a violation of the second amendment to be asked if you have a concealed weapons permit. It is a violation – “shall not be infringed”. And they are asking for some reason - a trumped up less than honest reason.

Having the permit does not make one subject to reduced protection from the Fourth Ammendment (Unlawful search & seizure). Fourth Amendment? Oh come now – PLEASE! The New Orleans PD beat up an elderly woman and took her gun rather than go get the thugs that were taking pot shots at them from bridge overpasses after the hurricane.http://www.NRAILA.org/multimedia/mmplayer_set.aspx?ID=61

And not so long ago ATF agents followed people home from gun shows in VA after they legally bought a gun AND TOOK THEM AWAY. http://www.nraila.org//Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?ID=190 There is your 4th amendment.

As a CCW permit holder are you going to tell me that some cities and administrators don’t have it in for lawful weapons owners? That is “possibly” why they are asking – to distinguish him from others – and that is “infringing”.

And if someone was to "discover" the "public record" that a person has a concealed weapons permit, what exactly would they do with that info? Not rob you? Sounds like way too many people are conspiracy theorists around here. And it is fact that when people of less than good character find out another person may have guns – they target them for theft (car or house) hoping to snag a gun. This application will get filed in the “secure” administrations office where everyone from the mayor to the maid have access to it.

Sounds like way too many people are conspiracy theorists around here. You probably wouldn't get the job, because you failed to complete the application package. I think it would be creating a problem where there is none. I really think that is overreacting. I think they are getting the "full picture" of who this person is. To get a "full picture" picture of an applicant I would want to know if they are gay so I won't end up paying benifits to multiple ever changing "domestic partners" in the future. So can I ask that on an application?? NO Why not?? After all I want a "full picture" of this persons morals, life style, responsibilities - right?


Not a problem, we all feel passionate about our opinions ;-)
BTW, before anyone calls me a left-winger and thinks I do not have a vested intereset in this question..... All that said, if anyone wants to use that precious secret information, come and get me.... ;-) - Fix

We surely do :) I never said you were a left wing nut. Ha- Ha, But being a CCW permit holder I would think you would know these things.

Things are likely fine, but they have no legit reason to ask and some things are more important than a “job”. Like your rights. TL

[Fixxer]

It is a violation – “shall not be infringed”. And they are asking for some reason - a trumped up less than honest reason.



I still fail to see how asking a question is "infringing" on your right to carry a firearm.

Wow, I'm amazed how far you think the government, or their minimum wage employees ("maids") will go to commit crimes or discriminate against permit holders. I really think you are taking it to absurd extremes. You gotta remember, FF's are city employees too. The PD, FD, sherriffs, corrections, etc., are all on the same team. Last time I went in to renew my permit, they expedited it to make sure I got it before my expiration....soley because I am a FF. No one's out to get you. Stop living a paranoid delusion. Kick back, enjoy life while you can, and if some scumbag tries to take that away from you, utilize your legal right to prevent him from doing so....

[SSIaerialmanTIM]

I still fail to see how asking a question is "infringing" on your right to carry a firearm. This isn’t about “out to get you”. It’s a matter of they have no legit reason to ask this on a FF application. SO what other reason would they have to ask except to infringe on his right???? Do you think they are asking him this so they can take him out for a beer and pat him on the back or something? Wake up.

You said: "FF's are city employees too. The PD, FD, sherriffs, corrections, etc., are all on the same team." Sometimes city employees are trash men, are they being asked this question on their apps too?

No one's out to get you. Stop living a paranoid delusion.....

Those are pretty strong unfriendly words considering the two factual links I posted above. I seriously doubt you even have a permit, because people that carry them are diligent and don’t go around calling others like them “delusional” for simply knowing and presenting the facts. You might want to simply click on the links and see what already HAS transpired regarding people and gun ownership in the US – when you find those factual stories false, then you can say I am “delusional”.

I don't know about you, but watching 6 fat cops jump on an elderly lady for holding a revolver WITH THE CYLINDER OPEN AND UNLOADED because she didn't want to leave her house (that the lousy cops wouldn't protect) to the looters - was way out of bounds. (and then later hearing that idiot reporter talk about them using "deadly force" because she "after all she had a gun") Those boys would have met a different end had they invited themselves to my house and tried to force their way in, take my gun, etc. I hope they got fired after someone kicked thier butts.

God, family and guns. And no job of any sort, City or not has any right to ask private information about any of those on a “job application”. TL (have some principles and don’t sacrifice them at the drop of a hat for a few lousy $$.$$)

[Fixxer]

...(1) SO what other reason would they have to ask except to infringe on his right????......(2) Those are pretty strong unfriendly words considering the two factual links I posted above. (3) I seriously doubt you even have a permit, because people that carry them are diligent and don’t go around calling others like them “delusional” for simply knowing and presenting the facts. (4) You might want to simply click on the links and see what already HAS transpired regarding people and gun ownership in the US – when you find those factual stories false, then you can say I am “delusional”......(5) (have some principles and don’t sacrifice them at the drop of a hat for a few lousy $$.$$)

(1) SO, the ONLY reason to ask the question is to infringe on your rights? I guess you're a "the glass is empty" kinda guy

(2) Two events that have occured can hardly even begin to prove a theory that the gov't is trying to oppress permit holders. I don't know the whole story and I don't care to. I'll just go by your judgement because I don't feel like wasting any more time on this....Yeah, sounds like they didn't do the right thing. Does that mean they TARGETED this old lady because she was a permit holder? OR was it that maybe these cops were dopes and made a pretty idiotic error in judgement. I tend to think it's the latter. I would consider these events to be isolated incidents and not a widespread campaign against permit holders.

(3) Having a permit and calling you delusional have nothing to do with one another. I've had a permit for 11 years now, and will continue to carry a firearm as long as we have the seoncd amendment. I called you delusional not because of facts that you presented, but because of the theories that you draw from the facts.

(4) See #2 above.

(5) Have some principles? I do. You claim that I "sacrifice them at the drop of a hat for a few lousy $$.$$" Hmmm. I'm not really sure how I sacrificed my principles by being a FF. Oh, because I told them I have a permit? I didn't give it up mind you, but I guess that doesn't matter. I TOLD SOMEONE. Apparently I didn't get the memo from your anti-gov't organization that I gotta keep it a secret.

Here's my perspective: You want principles? I stand up for what I believe in. I won't hide in the closet with my permit and cry foul when someone asks me if I have it. Have some balls. You obviously have a radical right-wing mentality, and that's unfortunate. Go back to your compound or closet or whereever you dwell and think that you are doing a great job by keeping the evil forces of the government away from your prized permit. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy my life without looking over my shoulder and crying everytime someone asks me a question. Hard to believe (and embarrassed) you're a FF....

[SSIaerialmanTIM]

Ok Fixer, have it your way. I put up a couple factual links because I am a “crazy”, “glass half empty”, delusional guy afraid to admit I have a CC permit- Pal you’re a name calling NUT. I simply recommended to this guy that answering a question like that to someone other than Law Enforcement is outside of his rights.

And Yes – you evidently are the type to sacrifice principles at the drop of a hat. Willing to put down information that has to do with defense of your person and family on an unsecured application, HOPING you might get a lousy job. To me that is buckling under. “anti-government” Please, I was a US Marine, what were /are you? Anything? I went to the ground for my USA so I think you know what you can do with your "embarrased" comment. Get over your hero complex.

You have an anonymous profile – call all the names you want because I think you are not a CC permit holder and with all your nasty talk I also think you have a political agenda. Call Rosie O’Doughnut & George Soros and tell them you “did your part” today. TL

http://www.nraila.org/multimedia/mmplayer_set.aspx?ID=61
http://www.nraila.org//Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?ID=190

Those are by far not the only “events” as you put it – just a couple of the more blatant ones.

[Fixxer]

Ok Fixer, have it your way. I put up a couple factual links because I am a “crazy”, “glass half empty”, delusional guy afraid to admit I have a CC permit- Pal you’re a name calling NUT. I simply recommended to this guy that answering a question like that to someone other than Law Enforcement is outside of his rights.

And Yes – you evidently are the type to sacrifice principles at the drop of a hat. Willing to put down information that has to do with defense of your person and family on an unsecured application, HOPING you might get a lousy job. To me that is buckling under. “anti-government” Please, I was a US Marine, what were /are you? Anything? I went to the ground for my USA so I think you know what you can do with your "embarrased" comment. Get over your hero complex.

You have an anonymous profile – call all the names you want because I think you are not a CC permit holder and with all your nasty talk I also think you have a political agenda. Call Rosie O’Doughnut & George Soros and tell them you “did your part” today. TL

http://www.nraila.org/multimedia/mmplayer_set.aspx?ID=61
http://www.nraila.org//Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?ID=190

Those are by far not the only “events” as you put it – just a couple of the more blatant ones.

Well, here are some facts for you to chew on: I do not have a hero complex, but it sounds like you might have one. I have a CC permit. Rosie O'Donnel is an ignorant pig. I don't know who the hell George Soros is. I positively don't have a political agenda. I rarely even vote. I don't get involved in politics, mainly because of the necessity to debate topics like on this thread. I end up wasting my time arguing a point with someone I don't know, don't care to, and who won't change anyway. The only thing that comes from it is irritation and wasted time. I don't believe the CC permit question violates any rights. It doesn't threaten the security of my family. Saying that I sacrifice principles because of answering a question is just plain assinine. Firefighting is not "a lousy job." If you believe that, you shouldn't be here....I think a lot of others here would find that offensive.

Can't really prove any of that to you, but it doesn't really matter anyway. You're still going to believe whatever theory you subscribe to. AND we'll both just be wasting our time. So, you've occupied enough of mine already with nothing to show for it, for either of us. Good luck with your business....

- Fix

[SSIaerialmanTIM]

WOW, talk about twisting things. “A lousy job” meaning any job is not worth your Freedom or privacy – you know EXACTLY what was said – how dare you try to twist it into something like “Firefighting is Lousy!!!” I will not stand for that. Plenty on here know me personally and how much time I spend away from family in support of the Fire Service. Who are you?

You have done nothing but name call and accuse and you are still anonymous. Just a character assassin.

Unidentified – Anonymous with no accountability for running your mouth & calling names, typical anonymous poster.

You have wasted everyone’s time including mine. TL

[Fixxer]

WOW, talk about twisting things. “A lousy job” meaning any job is not worth your Freedom or privacy – you know EXACTLY what was said – how dare you try to twist it into something like “Firefighting is Lousy!!!” I will not stand for that. Plenty on here know me personally and how much time I spend away from family in support of the Fire Service. Who are you?

You have done nothing but name call and accuse and you are still anonymous. Just a character assassin.

Unidentified – Anonymous with no accountability for running your mouth & calling names, typical anonymous poster.

You have wasted everyone’s time including mine. TL

Hey, they were your words, not mine.....perhaps you should construct your arguments more carefully. Anonymous....yeah and? I don't see your name and address on here???? WTF? You think answering a CC permit question on a gov't app is putting my family in jeopardy and sacrificing my principles, BUT identifying myself on a completely public (and to use your word "UNSECURED") website is OK? Get your head out of your ass.

"Character assassin"? What the hell is that? Look up my other posts douchebag.

[SSIaerialmanTIM]

Bet you’re a real pleasure to work with. Here are just some of your posts.

""I do not want to feel like I have a target on my back, especially considering the group that is running the department right now. If for some bizarre reason, I don't make it in July, you can be assured that there will be a lawsuit, and I'll be fighting for not only a job, but back pay, back seniority, and any other "damages" I have endured"" Sounds really nice – a high character individual indeed. I would love to be on your team. A target on your back? NUT

OR ""BUT identifying myself on a completely public (and to use your word "UNSECURED") website is OK?"" Talk about paranoid and delusional.

OR ""You also have a courtesy interview with two chiefs who will talk to you about the job and ask you WHY you want to be a firefighter. Having a good non-typical answer would be good. For example, don't say, "I want to help people."""
Hey, they were your words, not mine.....perhaps you should construct your arguments more carefully.
Nope, those are YOUR WORDS. And to think I always thought Firefighters were there to help people. That is why I am on this site, that is why I have made my profession helping the Fire Service. That is why I have a few thousand of them I think of as friends who I help out all the time.

You sound like a wet behind the ears, really unhappy little punk who needs to choose his words better himself. I think people are tired of reading your name calling “Mr. Anonymous”. (who is too paranoid to identify himself and take responsibility for his comments and big out of control mouth)

My e-mail is on here as is my location - instead of mouthing off on here - just email me instead. That is the problem with forums -always people on them who run their mouths and get nasty because they can't do it in real life. Then they hide behind a screen name. Typical anonymous poster.

[Fixxer]

As for recommending not to say the phrase "becasue I want to help people," EVERYONE says that. The chiefs even commented that it was nice to FINALLY hear a different answer to that question. Doesn't mean I don't want to help people.....As I see you don't mind twisting words and taking them out of context.....

I'm sure you don't know anything about the racial climate in my dept. right now, but there are numerous cases of reverse discrimination. Over the past few years it has gotten out of control and become out and out blatant. That is why there are multiple lawsuits in court right now, and multiple complaints filed with the EEOC. A Lieutenant was just *permanently* demoted to FF because of an email he allegedly sent to a newspaper complaining about the discriminiation. Not identifying myself on here makes me a paranoid & delusional nut? Hardly. Since you apprently have time to research all my posts, research that topic.

AND Just so we are clear on something: You're saying you have identified yourself on here, correct? OK, so now anyone in the world with internet access knows who you are, where you are, and that you have a CC permit. According to you, that's OK because you shouldn't be anonymous on here when you have an opinion. BUT God forbid you have to answer that question on an "unsecured" city gov't job application. Come on.

[SgtScott31]

As a Sgt LEO and a FF, I will say this...bottom line is the hiring agency can ask just about anything they want on their application. If the person wants to refuse to answer questions, that's their right, but it's also the right of the department to not hire him also.

A CCW question on an application is not violating anyone's rights. Last I checked, I've never heard of anyone suing an agency for not hiring them due to an EEOC violation of asking about them being a CCW holder. I know for sure that the NRA couldn't do a thing about it. They have people that are very knowledgeable about gun laws, but they're not going to send legal representation to a FF who didn't get hired becaues he thinks it was due to a CCW permit.

There are specific things that can and can't be asked on applications. There are also specific things that businesses/agencies cannot hold against a person applying. It strikes me as odd, but I see nothing wrong with an agency asking if a FF is a permit (CCW) holder. I think the only reason they would want to know is to make sure that the holder does not bring his/her weapon in the fire hall or other city/county property.

On a side note:

#1 - I wouldn't put my personal information over a public forum either. I don't know anyone that does. That's the way identities are stolen. To call someone "delusional" or "paranoid" for not releasing personal info on the web is ludicrous.

#2 - Aside from some guns being taken from residents, there were tons of other screw ups from local, state, and federal agencies during the Katrina disaster, all of which many are ashamed of. Rather than harping on it when any gun-related issue comes up, learn from it and move on.

SSI....those links from the NRA really don't say much. The NRA will always hold a strong position for pro-2nd Amendment anything.

[SSIaerialmanTIM]

Let’s set this straight so the anonymous people can get on with their lives. I responded to “The1engine” simply saying he was justified in wondering why his CC permit is anyone’s business when he said he wondered if it could hurt his chances for hire. Anyone who denies it could hurt his chances if someone dishonest, who hates guns has a say in the hiring process; is just not very “with it”.

Judging from comments from "fixer" like “Last time I went in to renew my permit, they expedited it to make sure I got it before my expiration....solely because I am a FF.”; well in short it doesn’t work like that for “fixer” or anyone else. Just saying something that ludicrous in and of itself says you don’t have a CCW.

As a Sgt LEO and a FF, I will say this...
#1 - I wouldn't put my personal information over a public forum either.I could care less who knows who I am, as witnessed by my *real* profile on here - i assure you there is not enough info about me on here for anyone to "steal my identity". Many fine Chiefs are identified on here because they want to add credibility to what they say - is someone going to steal thier identities as well?

To call someone "delusional" or "paranoid" for not releasing personal info on the web is ludicrous. What is ludicrous was “fixer” (an anonymous pretender) deciding to get venomous and start making accusations and calling names - evidently you did not read back far enough to see that and that is why I turned his flaming liberal comments (of being paranoid & delusional) back on him. Next time perhaps you should read the whole story before you make it seem like I said those things about him first.

I responded to “The1engine” in hopes of him being able to keep HIS information private. In other words I simply told him I thought it was outside of his rights. I would have just wrote “N/A” on that part of the application. In lending “The1engine” my humble opinion of this – keeping my status as a CCW private was not important to me because I am not delusional like “fixer” seems to be about adding credibility to his statements by having a real profile. Seems adding credibility to one’s own statements by having a real profile is something you don’t believe in either.

I never said the NRA would come after anyone “sgt”. And to be quite honest I don’t really appreciate your misleading statements about me “harping” on facts (just by posting a simple factual link) that proves many agencies will use excuses to take peoples firearms unlawfully. I put that link up so people COULD LEARN FROM IT, since the media won’t report it. You ARE all for people learning from this sort of illegal action aren’t you “SgtScott”?

...those links from the NRA really don't say much. It doesn’t really seem like you are for people learning about these real occurances hearing you state that. In fact it would be ludicrous reading that comment from you, to draw from it that you wanted people to learn about it or from it.

I truly hope neither of you are members of the NRA speaking as you have. With friends like that we don’t need enemies.

Bottom line = All applicants can read & hear Department rules upon orientation and entering the Firehall if they get hired. Having “do you have a CCW permit?” on the application serves no purpose and it is an infringement.

I will say it again…… “The whole idea of a "CC" permit is PRIVACY.” TL

[Carey14]

Your Concealed Carry License is attached to your driving license and registration.

When you get pulled over by the police.... it pops up on their CAD system and they announce a CCW for you along with your driving record and any warrants.

So privacy isn't really legitimate (at least in Ohio)

[SSIaerialmanTIM]

The whole idea of a "CC" permit is PRIVACY. Asking someone to put that in writing on unsecured paperwork is dangerous (and yes this application he would have to fill out is unsecured). This "big dept." is not law enforcement and they have no use for this info.

^^^^ I.E. private from NON-law enforcement ^^^^ as my statement says.

CCW pops up for most law enforcement during a routine stop – law enforcement is qualified, knowledgeable, and responsible in these matters. City office human resources flunkies are not law enforcement.

Someone needs to tell me why so many people seem to have such a problem with privacy and Constitutional rights where the 2nd Amendment is concerned. You guys are all average citizen right? Just like me. WHY would anyone of you be so eager to justify a loss of his own rights? I personally can’t believe it.

Some rights transcend jobs gentlemen. One proponent for privacy on this thread – unreal. I yield the floor to the “new values” of what used to be America. Post away......... TL

[Geinandputitout]

They print your name in the paper when you are initially issued a permit, and then every time you renew here, annually. I don't feel infringed.

Here is the amendment:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

SSIaerialmanTIM - I must ask are you one of these new fangled living breathing constitutionalists that thinks one can surmise what the founders were thinking when the wrote the document? Huh - surpirising.

[SSIaerialmanTIM]

Perhaps they print your name in the paper where you are from – they do not do that here. Just because they do it where you are from does not make it right. In fact that is quite ridiculous if that is really going on in your state. It shows how far we have to go yet though - good point.

Look up “Infringement”. It means “false pretense” among other things. Asking that information on an application when it has nothing to do with the job – that is false pretense.

Constitutionalist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutionalist Look it up. { In the United States, a constitutionalist refers to someone who advocates strict adherence to the U.S. Constitution, as intended by its framers.}
You make it sound like something dirty. Go figure. I mean imagine, actually adhering to “Shall not be infringed”; how absurd!
SSIaerialmanTIM - I must ask are you one of these new fangled living breathing constitutionalists that thinks one can surmise what the founders were thinking when the wrote the document? Huh - surpirising.I am an Independent, but Winston Churchill was a “New Fangled” Constitutionalist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill . Tell me “Geinandputitout”, are you one of these living breathing “new fangled” liberals who think the Constitution should be changed frequently to fit the whims of a society? No steadfast standards? Ever changing definitions and values? Hmmm – surprising.

By the way, look up Concealed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceal in short it means " the opposite of exposure ". That doesn't seem to fit with publishing your name in the paper.

[Geinandputitout]

Perhaps they print your name in the paper where you are from – they do not do that here. Just because they do it where you are from does not make it right. In fact that is quite ridiculous if that is really going on in your state. It shows how far we have to go yet though - good point.

Look up “Infringement”. It means “false pretense” among other things. Asking that information on an application when it has nothing to do with the job – that is false pretense.

Constitutionalist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutionalist Look it up. { In the United States, a constitutionalist refers to someone who advocates strict adherence to the U.S. Constitution, as intended by its framers.}
You make it sound like something dirty. Go figure. I mean imagine, actually adhering to “Shall not be infringed”; how absurd!
I am an Independent, but Winston Churchill was a “New Fangled” Constitutionalist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill . Tell me “Geinandputitout”, are you one of these living breathing “new fangled” liberals who think the Constitution should be changed frequently to fit the whims of a society? No steadfast standards? Ever changing definitions and values? Hmmm – surprising.

By the way, look up Concealed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceal in short it means " the opposite of exposure ". That doesn't seem to fit with publishing your name in the paper.

I am a liberal, living breathing constitutionalist. I believe in the constitution, and the things that it stands for. However, no one can question that they did get some things wrong in its construction. Do you want to support the 3/5 rule?

Thank-you for quoting wiki-pedia articles. If I ever learned how to use a search engine, I will have this whole techy thing figured out.

I think the NRA has sold everyone a bill of goods, you like the last part of the sentence, shall not be infringed. What about the first part of the amendment, a well regulated militia. If the framers had intended to provide guaranteed access to firearms to everyone, don't you think they would've made them two separate entries. One for a well regulated milita. And a second for guaranteed private gun ownership?

I think instead of googling definitions on what constitutionalist means, you should spend more time reading what members of the supreme court think about it. At the end of the day, there opinion is the one that matters. Active Liberty by Stephen Breyer would be a good start.

You probably don't like THAT PART of the constitution because all of the judges are corrupt.

To paraphrase Al Gore from Nightline the other night, there is no intermediary step between questioning a ruling from the supreme court and armed insurrection.

Once again I love the constitution like I love my wife, with an acceptance of her flaws and a willingness to grow together. Unlike others on this forum, I do not love the constitution like a four year old boy loves his mommy.

TTFN

[Carey14]

They broadcast the CCW over the radio (Police Frequency)
followed by your Social Security number.... The most listened to radio station in the whole country so everyone and anyone knows

[Fixxer]

“....solely because I am a FF.”; well in short it doesn’t work like that for “fixer” or anyone else. Just saying something that ludicrous in and of itself says you don’t have a CCW.

...What is ludicrous was “fixer” (an anonymous pretender)...

...because I am not delusional like “fixer” seems to be about adding credibility to his statements by having a real profile...


Wow, I made your post three times....Well, let's see: It did work that way for me. Cops & firemen try to take care of each other here. Maybe I had a detective who liked firemen. I don't know, I don't care...it happened and it kept me within the law.

"An anonymous pretender" Hmmm. I don't think you have any chance of winning an argument saying you should identify yourself on an "unsecured" forum. Good for you if you want to.

Delusional about adding credibility. I believe you are the one that is delusional. You are the one who said I must have a "real" profile to have credibility. Sorry, but identifying myself on here does not add credibility.

- Fix

[SSIaerialmanTIM]

Second Amendment: Court Ruling Favors Individual Right to Gun Ownership, October 19, 2001
A federal appeals court ruled this week that the Constitution guarantees individuals the right to have a gun. This is the first time in history that a federal court has explicitly endorsed that interpretation of the Second Amendment.
On Tuesday, October 16, the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans stated that citizens have the right to bear arms.They cited the framers' Second Amendment guarantee for the right of law-abiding individuals to have a gun, just as the First Amendment protects individuals' free speech.
By 2-1, the majority concluded: "We hold that the Constitution protects the rights of individuals, including those not actually a member of any militia or engaged in active military service or training, to privately possess and bear their own firearms that are suitable as personal, individual weapons."

You probably don't like THAT PART of the constitution because all of the judges are corrupt. It appears you think those judges above are corrupt huh? Just who the heck did you think was making upo a "militia"? Um.. Individuals?


you should spend more time reading what members of the supreme court think about it. At the end of the day, there opinion is the one that matters. I congragulate you on your statement above. It proves just what liberals are……..in effect what you just said is “We The People” do not matter –

But that is what liberals do “twist and spin”. TL