OK, so maby I was wrong.....

[BLSboy]

about moving to Jersey.....
With some family issues, not making enough money to survive, and the absolute disgust with the EMS system, me thinks its time to go back to Fla....

[MalahatTwo7]

about moving to Jersey.....
With some family issues, not making enough money to survive, and the absolute disgust with the EMS system, me thinks its time to go back to Fla....

Theres lots of room here in NVA or SW MD. :D:D I'm sure Harve would appreciate a good hand or two. ;)

[BLSboy]

Allow me to add that the WARM WEATHER was something else I missed......:cool: :p

[fireman4949]

Once you've lived here, it's awfully hard to leave.;)

I do wish you the very best.:)

BTW, highs well into the 80's, abundant sunshine and girls in short-shorts and bikini tops as I type this...:p Just thought you might like to know.;)

[BLSboy]

Now Loo, its not nice to rub it in...:D

It also seems to be "easier" to get on a Career Dept....you go and get your Certs, work your @ss off, and then you apply.
Up here its live in the city, wait 2-8 years, blah blah blah.
NOT worth it

[fireman4949]

Now Loo, its not nice to rub it in...:D

It also seems to be "easier" to get on a Career Dept....you go and get your Certs, work your @ss off, and then you apply.
Up here its live in the city, wait 2-8 years, blah blah blah.
NOT worth it

I guess it's just due to the more transient nature of the population here. If departments down here wanted "home-grown" firefighters, they might have a long, long wait.

Well, gotta go pick up my girls from school...I think we'll go for a swim when we get home!:p :p :p ;)

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Now Loo, its not nice to rub it in...:D

It also seems to be "easier" to get on a Career Dept....you go and get your Certs, work your @ss off, and then you apply.
Up here its live in the city, wait 2-8 years, blah blah blah.
NOT worth it


Every single kid that asks me about getting on a career department gets the same piece of advice: LEAVE NJ.

[BLSboy]

And you were right, George.
You gave me that advice before I attempted the move, and I should have listened!

[Engine58]

I agree...I'm lookin to get out of here before its too late. Plus your right the weather is starting to get to me!!

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

And you were right, George.
You gave me that advice before I attempted the move, and I should have listened!

I know I did. But I didn't want to come across with an "I told you so". I'm a jerk, but I am not heartless.

[fieldseng2]

We're taking aps! :)


http://stlcin.missouri.org/OnlineJob/jobdetail.cfm?OpeningID=754

[DrParasite]

about moving to Jersey.....
With some family issues, not making enough money to survive, and the absolute disgust with the EMS system, me thinks its time to go back to Fla....how are you not making enough money to survive? maybe if you worked for a municipal service or hospital based system (instead of a 3rd party service) you could. I know I do. Yeah, I work a Per diem job or two, but I get by.

I agree, if you want to get hired as a career FF, get out of NJ. I am currently looking at departments in Virginia and Maryland. NJ has too many roadblocks. best to apply everywhere and see what department offers you a job.

I don't understand your "disgust" with the EMS system. yeah, it has a few problems (ok, most than a few :rolleyes:) but no system is perfect. Too many ALS units, not enough ALS units, BLS can't do a lot, ALS is over dispatched, FD does all the work, EMS just transports, etc.

just remember the grass is always greener on the other side.......

[BLSboy]

how are you not making enough money to survive? maybe if you worked for a municipal service or hospital based system (instead of a 3rd party service) you could. I know I do. Yeah, I work a Per diem job or two, but I get by.

I agree, if you want to get hired as a career FF, get out of NJ. I am currently looking at departments in Virginia and Maryland. NJ has too many roadblocks. best to apply everywhere and see what department offers you a job.

I don't understand your "disgust" with the EMS system. yeah, it has a few problems (ok, most than a few :rolleyes:) but no system is perfect. Too many ALS units, not enough ALS units, BLS can't do a lot, ALS is over dispatched, FD does all the work, EMS just transports, etc.

just remember the grass is always greener on the other side.......

All I work for is privates, and quite frankly, I am disgusted with the quality of EMTs that they are hiring. Refusing to learn the area that they serve (living far away, coming to a new area, and not learning streets. Not forgetting, straight up saying no, i wont learn.) Keeping Medics for EVERY call that they are dispatched for, even though we are no more then 4 minutes away from the hospital. Stuff like that.

[Bones42]

Up here its live in the city, wait 2-8 years, blah blah blah.
Sounds like you are applying to FDNY.

I am disgusted with the quality of EMTs that they are hiring.Dude, you work in A/C. That's like one of the cesspools of the state. :p

[DrParasite]

Dude, no wonder you are so disgusted with EMS. Privates suck, at least in the state on NJ. Especially for profit ones. they are generally poorly paid, poorly equipped, hire the EMTs they can pay the least, and only want to focus on profit. That's your problem, you need to look at how a municipal or hospital based system works, and I think you will be change your mind.

If you want to work EMS in NJ, look at Jersey City EMS, UMDNJ, Monre Twp EMS, RWJUH EMS, Somerset Medical Center, UMDNJ-Camden, Union, Elizabeth PD, or any of the other big cities in the north. I don't know much about south jersey, but in central and north jersey, you absolutely can make enough money to live.

And most places don't keep medics for every call, they are usually canceled if the BLS crew decides they aren't needed. I don't know how you operate in the AC area, but that's how we operate up here.

I don't know if you are willing to leave your comfort zone and try something new, PM or e-mail me. yeah, you might have to relocate a little bit, and their is competition, so there is no guarantee of a job, but the good positions aren't' easy to get.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Dude, no wonder you are so disgusted with EMS. Privates suck, at least in the state on NJ. Especially for profit ones. they are generally poorly paid, poorly equipped, hire the EMTs they can pay the least, and only want to focus on profit. That's your problem, you need to look at how a municipal or hospital based system works, and I think you will be change your mind.

If you want to work EMS in NJ, look at Jersey City EMS, UMDNJ, Monre Twp EMS, RWJUH EMS, Somerset Medical Center, UMDNJ-Camden, Union, Elizabeth PD, or any of the other big cities in the north. I don't know much about south jersey, but in central and north jersey, you absolutely can make enough money to live.

And most places don't keep medics for every call, they are usually canceled if the BLS crew decides they aren't needed. I don't know how you operate in the AC area, but that's how we operate up here.

I don't know if you are willing to leave your comfort zone and try something new, PM or e-mail me. yeah, you might have to relocate a little bit, and their is competition, so there is no guarantee of a job, but the good positions aren't' easy to get.

In my younger days, I worked at both the MC and RWJUH. They are both class outfits. However, JC paid more. RW had better equipment. JC had a higher call volume. JC had PD on virtually every call (before the days of JCFD First Responder). Believe it or not, had more trauma with RW. Training ops were better at RW.

Of course, that was a while ago, but I don't suspect much has changed.

It was a little disconcerting that the BLS was getting paid about 1/3 of what the FD First Responders were...

[Engine58]

Also look into Edison Township EMS, they have good pay and benefits. The FD just took them over. I heard its rough to get hired there though so I dunno if you wanna try there or not. I agree private EMS sucks, I made the mistake of working for rural metro a few years ago..thank god there gone!! That was the shortest length of time I ever held a job haha...I now work for a private ambulance squad in middlesex county. They hired fulltimers and per diems for their daytime coverage so its a good job right now...pay is pretty decent and we got a nice 4 on 4 off schedule.

[wag11c]

BLSBOY: Not knocking ya, but how long do you have in that system? Have you done anything to try and make improvements? Yea, privates suck but I'll bet a lot of us started out there and realized it's a stepping stone to bigger and better things. It's funny how I almost look back with fondness at my BLS private days. Anything went, no rules, lotta fun.

[BLSboy]

BLSBOY: Not knocking ya, but how long do you have in that system? Have you done anything to try and make improvements? Yea, privates suck but I'll bet a lot of us started out there and realized it's a stepping stone to bigger and better things. It's funny how I almost look back with fondness at my BLS private days. Anything went, no rules, lotta fun.

Going on 8 months now. When I started, it was awesome to work. But more and more rules were implemented, paperwork became more, and we couldn't do the things we used to do. I do plan on making this a stepping stone, I learned alot, and plan on using that knowledge in Medic School.

[Engine58]

I believe UMDNJ EMS is hiring for BLS in Camden. I dont know if you want to work there though lol but if where your at is as bad as you say it is then I'd check that out.

[BLSboy]

I had heard they were hiring, asked around, but need 3+ years urban experience. Oh well. Fla Medic school looks fairly good:cool:

[len1582]

......"I agree, if you want to get hired as a career FF, get out of NJ."....

That's not always the case. We've hired over 125 in the last three years. Departments are hiring, but your timing has to be right. And yes,as you stated, you do have to wait.

I'm sorry things didn't work out. I wish you luck.

[FlyingKiwi]

BLS wants to move to NJ.. . Free

George says "NOOOO".. . His 5 cents worth.

BLS admits WHOOPS.

Georges response.....

I know I did. But I didn't want to come across with an "I told you so". I'm a jerk, but I am not heartless.

PRICELESS

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

......"I agree, if you want to get hired as a career FF, get out of NJ."....

That's not always the case. We've hired over 125 in the last three years. Departments are hiring, but your timing has to be right. And yes,as you stated, you do have to wait.

I'm sorry things didn't work out. I wish you luck.

If only waiting were all it took. Many good kids will never attain their dream job due to the minority BS and the residency rules. That is the real crime in the NJ career fire service.

[kjohn23]

Nation's highest ratio of bare skin to clothing
Its fun to feel sorry for the North from November until May
Bike week in Daytona is a great lesson in how to get arrested
Cold beer taste better in 100 degree temperatures
From any point in Florida, a beach is only 60 miles away
More than 1,000 golf courses allows us to research whether there could possibly be such a thing as to much golf
Deep sea drinking while you fish
Sailing is prescribed by doctors for stress related ailments
All the Jimmy Buffet songs are true
Spring Break comes to us, instead of the other way around
Only state with both southern and northern rednecks
Can you say "Sunshine State"?
AND the number 1 reason:We didn't invent margaritas, we just perfected them

[len1582]

What's wrong with residency? How many people move many miles for other jobs all over the country. The department( 3rd largest in state) next to mine covers five towns. All you have to do is live in any one of those 5 towns to be eligable. A majority of fire and police move after awhile(state law says after a year probation you can for FD) anyway so what's wrong with investing a few years of your life with your location. Moving does not end your life. Despite what anyone thinks 2-3 years is not a long time to wait. If you were in the military for a few years would you consider that waisting time since you have to wait to be discharged to go home. I knew what I wanted and where, so I moved there. I feel if you want something work for it. Anyone who just wants to fill out an application and walk right into a job needs to look elsewhere.

[DrParasite]

no offense Lens, but residency requirements suck. if I'm not mistaken, the department next to you is north bergen, as they are the only department that covers multiple towns. most others only cover a single town.

the reason they suck is because you have to move to a town prior to getting hired. If I want to be a career FF, i need to move to a town where I will get hired. That means I can't say "I want to be a career FF" I have to say "I want to be a Jersey City FF." You can't apply to newark and JC. or Trenton and elizabeth and paterson. you have to put all your eggs in one basket and HOPE you get hired. and if you don't get hired there, well, you are screwed since you won't be hired anywhere else.

if I'm not mistaken, Irvington is the only urban career Dept that doesn't have a residency requirement.

[DrParasite]

I had heard they were hiring, asked around, but need 3+ years urban experience. Oh well. Fla Medic school looks fairly good:cool:Florida medic school will accept you with only 8 months of experience? wow, in NJ, you need at least a year before they will even consider you (and there are good reasons for this).

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

What's wrong with residency? How many people move many miles for other jobs all over the country. The department( 3rd largest in state) next to mine covers five towns. All you have to do is live in any one of those 5 towns to be eligable. A majority of fire and police move after awhile(state law says after a year probation you can for FD) anyway so what's wrong with investing a few years of your life with your location. Moving does not end your life. Despite what anyone thinks 2-3 years is not a long time to wait. If you were in the military for a few years would you consider that waisting time since you have to wait to be discharged to go home. I knew what I wanted and where, so I moved there. I feel if you want something work for it. Anyone who just wants to fill out an application and walk right into a job needs to look elsewhere.

C'mon. I picture that you can't even be typing your post with a straight face. The residency laws in NJ are formulated solely to keep white kids from the suburbs from getting the jobs. Proof?

The law in your city says that you HAVE to be a legal resident and that the city can only hire city residents. Travel up the turnpike to Fort Lee (I know they don't have paid FF) or down the road to Clifton and the law is the opposite-they CANNOT restrict their hiring to city residents only because the majority of their city residents are white.

If Jersey City was so great you would still live there.

[len1582]

...I post so I allow myself to be challenged

DrParasite you're not exactly correct. North Bergen is one of the five towns that covers the area of the North Hudson Regional FD. You need to live in one of those 5 towns to join. And yes you do have to put all your eggs in one basket and gamble. It can be nerve wracking, but that's the way it is.
You're right George you do have to be a resident, just like many departmentsall over the country. I have a friend who lived in Wash,D.C. and wanted to get on a dept in Conneticut. So, he moved to that city. He got hired. Where's the problem? You want to work someplace, go there. As I also said you are allowed to move. Unlike Philly where you cannot move out of the city as long as you're on the fire dept. How about FDNY, Chicago, San Francisco, Miami. New Jersey isn't the only state with restrictions.
Residency laws are not "solely to keep white kids from the suburbs from getting the jobs". There are several WHITE councilmen in J.C. , and a few senators and assemblymen from around the state who've sponsored residency bills. Alot is politics. Out of towners don't bring in city votes. I've seen it with promotional lists..."We'll promote 5. But # 7 lives in town with his family. Ok, we'll make 8." It's not only the race card.
My moving was for my own reasons. I guess you haven't seen or heard about all the renovations and new building going on. I think it's a great place to work. I've felt that way for 26 years.
How about residency for police departments? What's the story there? Or by asking that am I beating the horse to much?
It is a shame when someone isn't able to fulfill a dream.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

...I post so I allow myself to be challenged

DrParasite you're not exactly correct. North Bergen is one of the five towns that covers the area of the North Hudson Regional FD. You need to live in one of those 5 towns to join. And yes you do have to put all your eggs in one basket and gamble. It can be nerve wracking, but that's the way it is.
You're right George you do have to be a resident, just like many departmentsall over the country. I have a friend who lived in Wash,D.C. and wanted to get on a dept in Conneticut. So, he moved to that city. He got hired. Where's the problem? You want to work someplace, go there. As I also said you are allowed to move. Unlike Philly where you cannot move out of the city as long as you're on the fire dept. How about FDNY, Chicago, San Francisco, Miami. New Jersey isn't the only state with restrictions.
Residency laws are not "solely to keep white kids from the suburbs from getting the jobs". There are several WHITE councilmen in J.C. , and a few senators and assemblymen from around the state who've sponsored residency bills. Alot is politics. Out of towners don't bring in city votes. I've seen it with promotional lists..."We'll promote 5. But # 7 lives in town with his family. Ok, we'll make 8." It's not only the race card.
My moving was for my own reasons. I guess you haven't seen or heard about all the renovations and new building going on. I think it's a great place to work. I've felt that way for 26 years.
How about residency for police departments? What's the story there? Or by asking that am I beating the horse to much?
It is a shame when someone isn't able to fulfill a dream.

I am very familiar with Jersey City. I went to Jersey City State. I worked for Jersey City EMS in my younger days. I began my career as an Investigator with the Special Investigations Unit of the Hudson County Prosecutor's Office. I continue to work closely with members of your fire investigation unit on fire sin your city today. (Check with them about a job at 132 Wilkinson Avenue. One of the most intersting investigations I have worked on in my career). So please do not tell me that I am not familiar with Jersey City. I agree wholeheartedly that it is, for the most part a growing vibrant city. Too bad that the growth is mostly bypassing Greenville, but that is another story.

It does not matter what the racial makeup of the city council is. You know as well as I do that the DOP at the state level makes the rules. The residency rules they enacted, whether it is for fire, police or clerical, have one purpose-racial quotas. That fact is indisputable. That fact alone prohibits cities like Jersey City from hiring perhaps the most qualified applicants.

You are correct that cities across the country have residency requirements much like NJ's. You are also correct that those residency requirements exist for the PD as well. I just am not certain what difference it makes.

I can tell you for certain that the difference between many, many cities inthis country and NJ is that in NJ, you are prohibited from taking the test unless you are a resident. In many other cities, an applicant can test, but agrees to move into the city at the time they are offerd a position. That is a distinct and important difference.

I am not looking to pick a fight with you. I teach at a community college in a fire science program and I talk to kids on a regular basis about their dream of becoming career fire fighters. In today's political climate in NJ, it is virtually certain that for 99% of them, they will notbe able to do it. It does not matter what their grades are, how many certifications they have or how good a fire fighter they are. There are other forces at work. I don't believe that it is discriminatory, I just think it is unfair.

[FWDbuff]

Hey Len- Philly doesnt make you live there to take the test. At least some kid from Bumfart, Iowa can fly out, take the test using his legal address, then fly home and try for other departments if he wants to in the meantime. Unlike The People's Republic of New Jersey, where if I want to test for Camden, I have to live in Camden. If I want to test for Newark, I have to live in Newark. Even FDNY is a little more fair- you dont have to live there to test, but if you do have residency, you get 5 points on the test. Residency requirements SUCK.

[DrParasite]

Sorry lens, I meant to say North Hudson. that's what happens when you are typing at 3:45am, those little details go under the radar.

Unlike The People's Republic of New Jersey, where if I want to test for Camden, I have to live in Camden. If I want to test for Newark, I have to live in Newark. Even FDNY is a little more fair- you dont have to live there to test, but if you do have residency, you get 5 points on the test. Residency requirements SUCK.actually, unless I am mistaken, you don't have to live in NYC to work there. you just have to live in NYC (any of the 5 boroughs) or in the surrounding 5 counties.

I would gladly move to Camden if offered a job with Camden FD. I would move to Newark for a job with Newark FD. I would move to the worst $hithole in the country (I believe it's a toss up between Detroit, St.Louis, and Camden according to the latest poll) if I was offered a job.

But to move somewhere in hopes of getting hired? where you more likely will not be offered a job because of various circumstances? yeah, that's not something I am looking forward to doing.

btw, one of the guys I used to work with got hired by DCFD. He lived in Jersey, worked full time, and went down to DC over the span of a few months taking all the tests, and when he was offered the spot, he moved down there.

and that's how it should be. anyone can apply, so you can get the best applicants. if you are offered the job, you have to live there (at time of appointment), and have that be your residency requirements.

but residency requirements just to take the test are unfair and limit your candidate pool

[BLSboy]

Florida medic school will accept you with only 8 months of experience? wow, in NJ, you need at least a year before they will even consider you (and there are good reasons for this).

Florida medic programs will accept people that haven't even taken their EMT test yet!
No joke.
I have 8 mo. exp. up here, I was an ED Tech. down in Fla. before I decided that I wanted to run on a bus for a while before going to Medic School. So all in all, 2 years experience as an EMT.

I dont want to be a Paramedic.......I want to be a DAMN GOOD one

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Hey Len, here is an interesting article. It involves NHRFD, residency laws and allegations of racial discrimination.

NAACP Says Hudson Fire Unit Discriminates
April 17, 2007

New Jersey - The regional fire department serving North Bergen and four other Hudson County municipalities hasn't hired a single black firefighter since it was created nearly nine years ago, the NAACP is alleging in a federal lawsuit.

The class-action complaint contends that North Hudson Regional Fire & Rescue's preference for recruiting and hiring employees who are residents of North Bergen, Union City, Weehawken, West New York and Guttenberg discriminates against African-Americans.

The five towns, which merged their departments in 1998, had a combined population of about 195,000 residents at the time of the 2000 census less than 5 percent of whom are African-American, the suit said.

"We are committed to having a diverse department," said Craig Schmalz, a spokesman for North Bergen. "We want everyone to be qualified. That's the bottom line."

The suit contends the department is passing up qualified candidates simply because they don't live in the towns.

The NAACP, its Newark branch and the civil rights organization's New Jersey State Conference joined four individuals as plaintiffs in the suit.

"North Hudson Regional Fire & Rescue's residency preference should be eliminated because of its discriminatory impact on African- Americans," interim NAACP general counsel Angela Ciccolo said in a statement.

The four plaintiffs Katrina Hall, Keith Reeves, Lamara Wapples and Altarik White passed the state's firefighter exam and applied for entry-level positions with the department. Because of the residency preference, they say, they and other outsiders from predominately black municipalities such as Newark, East Orange, Irvington, Jersey City and Orange are denied opportunities.

The one black firefighter in 300-member department was hired by North Bergen before the merger, the plaintiffs say.

The suit seeks an injunction barring North Hudson Regional from discriminating against black candidates on the basis of race and directing it to implement a vigorous recruitment program designed to attract qualified minorities in proportion to the labor market.

North Bergen has been challenged by the NAACP since 1993, when it was sued over its residency rules. In 1996, a federal judge held that a requirement that municipal employees live in the township, although not meant to discriminate against blacks who didn't, had a disproportional impact on them. North Bergen appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, which refused to hear it.

Later, the regional department was sued for allegedly failing to promote Hispanic members.

Written by The Record



This article, since it involves the pre-eminent organization to fight discrimination against blacks, ought to end this debate right here.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Here's the NAACP press release on the matter:

NAACP Files Employment Discrimination Lawsuit Against North Hudson Regional Fire & Rescue

April 13, 2007

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, the NAACP New Jersey State Conference, the Newark Branch NAACP and individual plaintiffs Katrina Hall, Keith Reeves, Lamara Wapples and Altarik White today announce the filing of an employment discrimination lawsuit against North Hudson Regional Fire & Rescue. The suit charges North Hudson Regional Fire & Rescue with implementing discriminatory recruitment and hiring practices against African Americans.

According to the complaint, North Hudson Regional Fire & Rescue's discriminatory employment practices include its preference for recruiting and hiring new employees who are residents of the five predominantly white New Jersey municipalities of Guttenberg, North Bergen, Union City, Weehawken and West New York. According to the 2000 census, those municipalities had a combined population of 195,000 residents, less than 5 percent of which are African American.

Due to the residency preference, plaintiffs allege that residents from the predominately black municipalities of Newark, East Orange, Irvington, Jersey City and Orange are denied the opportunity to join North Hudson Regional Fire & Rescue. As result of the alleged discriminatory hiring practices, North Hudson Regional Fire & Rescue employs 300 sworn firefighters, only one (0.3 percent of the total) is African American.

"North Hudson Regional Fire & Rescue's residency preference should be eliminated because of its discriminatory impact on African Americans," said Interim NAACP General Counsel Angela Ciccolo. "The NAACP joined this lawsuit to ensure that all qualified candidates regardless of race and ethnicity have an equal opportunity to join North Hudson Regional Fire & Rescue."

The suit contends that the fire and rescue company implements its discriminatory policies by:

--Refusing to recruit and hire African Americans on a non-discriminatory basis;

--Classifying candidates for employment in a discriminatory manner according to place of municipal residence and granting an absolute preference to residents of its service area over all qualified non-residents;

--Engaging in recruitment through a network of friends and relatives of current employees and other residents of the five municipality area;

--Failing or refusing to adopt objective, valid and non-discriminatory hiring procedures that do not disproportionately exclude African Americans from employment without evidence of job relatedness and business need;

--Failing or refusing to take appropriate action to correct the effects of past discriminatory practices.

Plaintiffs in the case are seeking relief in the form of a permanent injunction barring North Hudson Regional Fire & Rescue from discriminating against African American firefighter candidates on the basis of race; a permanent injunction directing North Hudson Regional Fire & Rescue to adopt and implement a vigorous recruitment program designed to attract qualified African American and other minorities in proportion to the labor market; cost of litigation, including reasonable attorneys' and expert fees.

The plaintiffs are being represented by the NAACP Legal Department, David Rose of Rose & Rose, P.C. in Washington, D.C. and David H. Ben-Asher of Rabner, Allcorn, Baumgart and Ben-Asher, P.C. in Montclair, N.J.

Founded in 1909, the NAACP is the nation's oldest and largest civil rights organization. Its members throughout the United States and the world are the premier advocates for civil rights in their communities, conducting voter mobilization and monitoring equal opportunity in the public and private sectors.


I am not saying that discrimination should take place. I am relatively certain that most of you would agree that some of the finest fire fighters we have today are minorities. But the playing field should be level for everybody. You want residency laws? Fine. But you get residency laws in every town, not just when it is convenient for a racial group.

[MalahatTwo7]

Man o Man. If the Great State of Fairfax had residency laws, there'd be no fire department. Nearly everyone lives at least 60 miles away, in other counties, or in two cases that I know at my station, two STATES: PA and MD. As long as you make your shift schedule and other employment requirements, no one seems to be too worried about where you live.

[Bones42]

Maybe I'm missing it, but the residency law/rule applies to all residents of the 5 towns, not just the minorities. The rule is simple. Live there and you can go for the job. Don't live there, you can't go for the job. It does not specify anything about race.

IMO, I think the rule is wrong, but it's their rule.


Did I miss the rule that said minorities can't move/live in those towns involved?

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

Maybe I'm missing it, but the residency law/rule applies to all residents of the 5 towns, not just the minorities. The rule is simple. Live there and you can go for the job. Don't live there, you can't go for the job. It does not specify anything about race.

IMO, I think the rule is wrong, but it's their rule.


Did I miss the rule that said minorities can't move/live in those towns involved?

The irony is that, for example, in Clifton and Fort Lee, the rules are that you CAN'T limit your hiring to town residents to promote minority hiring. Seems as though it is the classic double standard.

I would be interested in hearing from any minority members on these forums as to what they think about this action.

[len1582]

George I'm aware of that information. I'm glad you found it for everyone else to see. When that action was brought againt North Bergen it was during my 6 years as shop stewart for my firehouse. It also interested me because I have friends in that department and I also belonged to the Guttemberg Vol. F D before moving to Jersey City so I could take the test. It never was my intention to argue with anyone here. Just state my opinion as everyone else does. Yes the race card is a factor. I've seen that with my own eyes when years ago we were required to put posters in the firehouse windows stating,"Minority Firefighters Wanted". No punches pulled there.
The Greenville section is rebuilding also. Not as fast as downtown but it is happening. It still has most of the fireload, but there are many new homes all over Ocean Ave and the side blocks between Ocean and M. L. King Drive.
As far as hearing from a "minority", the 2000 census in Union City showed,I believe, 53% are Hispanic. I guess whites are the minority.
No Bones, I don't think you missed anything.
George, I deinately agree with you. "...the playing field should be level for everybody".
As I said it wasn't my intention to argue, or drag this out so I'll let everyone else get the last words in.

[MEDIC0372]

Move...I did. I grew up in NJ. Worked Elizabeth ASB (EMS) and a couple other places as a Medic. I now have me a nice FF/EMS job out of state.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

George I'm aware of that information. I'm glad you found it for everyone else to see. When that action was brought againt North Bergen it was during my 6 years as shop stewart for my firehouse. It also interested me because I have friends in that department and I also belonged to the Guttemberg Vol. F D before moving to Jersey City so I could take the test. It never was my intention to argue with anyone here. Just state my opinion as everyone else does. Yes the race card is a factor. I've seen that with my own eyes when years ago we were required to put posters in the firehouse windows stating,"Minority Firefighters Wanted". No punches pulled there.
The Greenville section is rebuilding also. Not as fast as downtown but it is happening. It still has most of the fireload, but there are many new homes all over Ocean Ave and the side blocks between Ocean and M. L. King Drive.
As far as hearing from a "minority", the 2000 census in Union City showed,I believe, 53% are Hispanic. I guess whites are the minority.
No Bones, I don't think you missed anything.
George, I deinately agree with you. "...the playing field should be level for everybody".
As I said it wasn't my intention to argue, or drag this out so I'll let everyone else get the last words in.


Len, this is a new action against NHRFR. It was only publicized this week.

I was in Greenville last week. I am sure you would agree that there is more to revitalizing a neighborhood than building new houses. Greenville suffers from a lack of businesses, a prevalence of gang activity and a general culture of lawlessness. Until that changes, those new buildings will look like old buildings by this time next year.

[len1582]

"Len, this is a new action against NHRFR. It was only publicized this week"

I meant the lawsuit by the NAACP against North Bergen in 1993 you spoke about. Sorry I wasn't clear.
It definately does take more than a few dozen new or rehabed homes to repair Greenville. But the area has improved in some ways. I've seen that
by working over 23 years in that area. Some of those newer ones are getting shabby. And we are getting some work in them. But there are some homes on Ocean Avenue going for well over $200 thousand. I never thought that would happen.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

"Len, this is a new action against NHRFR. It was only publicized this week"

I meant the lawsuit by the NAACP against North Bergen in 1993 you spoke about. Sorry I wasn't clear.
It definately does take more than a few dozen new or rehabed homes to repair Greenville. But the area has improved in some ways. I've seen that
by working over 23 years in that area. Some of those newer ones are getting shabby. And we are getting some work in them. But there are some homes on Ocean Avenue going for well over $200 thousand. I never thought that would happen.

But the new homes won't stop the drugs, violence or gang activity. On MLK near Wilkinson, I blew the light due to the fact there were about 25-30 gang members in colors massing in the street. I'm pretty certain it wasn't a marching band (no instruments) or a football team (no helmets), so I wasn't taking any chances.

[len1582]

I don't know how you ended up on M.L.King Drive, but unless you really need to be there my advice is to stay off "The Drive"... I only go there in a big red truck. Like the one on the cover of this months Firehouse Magazine.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

I don't know how you ended up on M.L.King Drive, but unless you really need to be there my advice is to stay off "The Drive"... I only go there in a big red truck. Like the one on the cover of this months Firehouse Magazine.

Remember, I told you that I had years of experience in your city. I wouldn't go anywhere near that area unless I had to be there. My only mistake was not finishing the job before 12 noon when they all wake up.

[DrParasite]

so BLSboy, what decision did you make?

[BLSboy]

I moved back to Sunny, Central Florida last week. The Medic class I had lined up was canceled, so I am starting that in Oct now. I'm still looking for a job, so I have plenty of free time on my hands.

Who knows, if this property tax reform keeps hiring frozen, I am just come back to Jersey.......:rolleyes: :eek: